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eternally-gratefull
Guest
so you can not name one person who teaches a child of God is not obedient to his commands.
Thank you.. Typical "rant"
What is hyper grace........
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so you can not name one person who teaches a child of God is not obedient to his commands.
Thank you.. Typical "rant"
Believing in dispensations as I do, most of what Jesus taught the Jews was concerning the Kingdom of Heaven which is the literal kingdom on earth where the kingdom is restored to Israel and Jesus will reign as King over all nations. Jesus prepared the Jews for this kingdom. However, when the Jews rejected their Messiah, the Lord turned to the Gentiles through the Apostle Paul with the Kingdom of God message, the spiritual kingdom in which the believer of the gospel of Christ dwells. The Lord gave Paul new doctrine to live in this spiritual kingdom on earth until the literal kingdom of heaven is ushered in for Israel. The rapture, tribulation, and second coming of Christ is all part of Christ's kingdom to come on earth. Being able to rightly divide the messages is a crucial part of living in the time of the Gentiles in which we live.
Personally I love "obedience to the faith" which means to trust in Christ and His finished work for us for life and living.
Whenever our assurance of salvation rests upon our "performance" rather then upon the "promises" of God that are Yes and Amen in Christ - we are in big trouble - we have fallen from grace to rely on our own self-effort so grace does not flow to us.
Obedience in the New Covenant:
In loving God and others as Jesus says is the greatest commandment in the law in relation to obedience.
Obedience to me is a fruit of the life of Christ in our inner man. It is not the root. It's the love of God and the life of Christ manifesting Himself in and through us to a hurt and dying world and to our fellow brethren.
It is not necessarily something "we do to be" but stems from something we "already are now" in Him and so we "do love" as we grow in our awareness of His love for us.
We obey our Lord and Father because we know Him and trust in His character and obedience is not a set of rules that we follow, but a natural flow of the life of God in us built on a love-trust relationship. When you know the love of God for us we will obey Him naturally and effortlessly.
When our minds are renewed to the truth that is in Christ - we obey from our hearts effortlessly. It's a fruit of being in Christ.
I maintain that obedience is a fruit of the life of Christ in our inner man that is created in Christ. When we teach the grace of God this enables us to bear His fruit in and through us to reflect the true kingdom of the love and grace of God to a hurt and dying world.
Teach and preach who believers are in Christ because we are in union in one spirit with the Lord Jesus and they will "awake to righteousness" that is in them because they are a new creation in Him and sin not and walk in the good works that God has prepared for them.
People make statements that obedience is believing in Jesus. That's wrong, for it's incomplete. Believing requires works, for works are the evidence of faith.
Jesus taught that fruitless "believers" are detached from the vine & burned. Yet some will cry "symbolism" to change that meaning to something other than losing your salvation. THIS IS A LIE FROM HELL. Anyone that teaches such is a child of the Devil, & doesn't know Christ.
Church, don't be deceived. The Bible states false doctrine will abound in these last days & this doctrine is the newest so far. That alone should make you investigate it for yourself.
If we are too lazy to search ALL the scriptures, then we deserve the judgment of Hell for unbelief, for faith comes by the hearing of the Word. Don't accept a substitute gospel.
Jesus taught that fruitless "believers" are detached from the vine & burned. Yet some will cry "symbolism" to change that meaning to something other than losing your salvation. THIS IS A LIE FROM HELL. Anyone that teaches such is a child of the Devil, & doesn't know Christ.
Church, don't be deceived. The Bible states false doctrine will abound in these last days & this doctrine is the newest so far. That alone should make you investigate it for yourself.
If we are too lazy to search ALL the scriptures, then we deserve the judgment of Hell for unbelief, for faith comes by the hearing of the Word. Don't accept a substitute gospel.
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EG - Are you saying the commands in the sermon on the mount are things you will obey and
submit to?
You have in the past said the sermon on the mount was merely to show how far we fell short
and could not read it without feeling condemnation.
Are you saying you have changed your position?
Your response above implies you are in denial of your own position let alone G7 and many
other dispensationalists. I find it mildly amusing you try and suggest I am lying, but then
this is you empty accusations and MO.
E
eternally-gratefull
Guest
A legalist is one who makes WORKS a prerequisite for salvation.
They come in many flavors
1. I must do all these works, and maybe I will be saved, Only God determines that Salvation is not assured until after we die
2. I am saved by grace, But if I want to keep this salvation. I must do all these works. or this work, or whatever one must do in order to "keep" salvation.
what a legalist is not.
A person who preaches or leads others in a discipleship type relationship where they are teaching to obey Gods commands, and to become christlike as a RESULT of their salvation.
what us a work A work (biblical) is something you can boast in (Not of works lest one should boast) A work is something someone does to earn a wage (Rom 4)
E
eternally-gratefull
Guest
this is where the legalist gets into trouble. It makes whatever you are trying to be or receive (Faith/saved or whatever) DEPENDENT on works.
Belief does not REQUIRE works for it to be true. If Belief (actually FAITH) is real. the OUTPUT is works. it is called cause and affect
If I have faith (true or saving faith).....(cause) I am saved....(affect)
If I am saved through faith (true or saving faith)......Cause)..... I will be obedient, or I will do works .....(affect)
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eternally-gratefull
Guest
I am saying this.
Scripture says children of GOD ARE OBEDIENT... we AGREE
Scripture says those who have eternal life ARE OBEDIENT... we AGREE
Scripture says Those who have true saving faith DO WORK... we AGREE
can you tell me anyone who says otherwise?
as for me changing my position. I have not changed my position. If you would listen to what I say you would know this.
E
eternally-gratefull
Guest
Who? A legalist who tries to earn his salvation by works? According to the bible NO. How can they be saved when they REJECT the grace of god and try to REPLACE it by works?
As paul said like they jews, they did not seek it by faith, But by works (it does not matter if it is works of the law or whatever work one does, A work is a work is a work) thus they have not attained the righteousness of God.
how can you be saved if you have not attained Gods righteousness, Which is by FAITH, and not by WORKS if you DO NOT HAVE FAITH?
edit, just to note.
A legalist is no more saved than a licentious person, who turns the grace of God to licentiousness (see Jude)
Both have rejected grace due to pride. One saying he has to earn it, the other failing to repent of his condition.
The above does not answer the question about the sermon on the mount.
The reason why you did not answer the question is because you do not want to admit your
view of the sermon on the mount, which is exactly my point.
Why is it so difficult to be honest?
And you want people to respect you and think you know what you are talking about.
E
eternally-gratefull
Guest
first off. I asked you to name one person who teaches a child of God is not obedient to Gods commands (All of his commands, not just one set was inferred)
so that is how I responded to your question..
what does the sermon on the mount have to do with anything? If I say a child of God obeys God by nature, (which I did) then that would include the sermon on the mount would it not?
Why do you always want to limit things? I am not limiting people to the sermon on the mount, If you want to, thats up to you
I told you, Are you going to show me who those people are or continue to hide??
Here you are attacking me, WHEN YOU STILL AFTER THREE POSTS HAVE NOT ANSWERED MY QUESTION!!
ps. It is not difficult to be honest. I AM HONEST IN EVER POST. IF I MAKE A MISTAKE I OWN IT, AND I HAVE SINCE I HAVE BEEN HERE.
When you YOU going to start being honest??
Good morning.
I'm not sure definition #2 means that the person is unsaved. I think it is incredibly destructive and preaching it can be very hurtful to the body, BUT their faith that Jesus is Lord and His Father raised Him from the grave is just as valid for Salvation as those that after confessing Christ relied SOLELY on His Grace.
I think the Holy Spirit will work in their hearts to teach them that to be truly effective at bringing others to the Kingdom MEANS relying on Christ alone though the Grace He gives us which will result in much fruit, especially LOVE.
Then others will KNOW we are Christians by our love.
There is for me a simple point to be made here.
I am asking one focused question about a section of teaching from Christ.
The reason why it is important is because in general terms people will say I obey God,
but then deny which parts they are saying are applicable to them.
So I am interested in a simple answer to a simple question.
As I stated, I take the sermon on the mount as the cornerstone of Christs teaching so
of critical importance.
I have read dispensationalists take the Lords prayer and say it does not apply to
believers. So this particular piece of scripture becomes a telling point when trying to
understand peoples reference points.
There are two phrases that are problematic. Obeying the law until all is fulfilled and
being perfect as our Father is perfect. Now if we are to walk in openness these have to
be faced. But it appears some do not want to be.
I am asking one focused question about a section of teaching from Christ.
The reason why it is important is because in general terms people will say I obey God,
but then deny which parts they are saying are applicable to them.
So I am interested in a simple answer to a simple question.
As I stated, I take the sermon on the mount as the cornerstone of Christs teaching so
of critical importance.
I have read dispensationalists take the Lords prayer and say it does not apply to
believers. So this particular piece of scripture becomes a telling point when trying to
understand peoples reference points.
There are two phrases that are problematic. Obeying the law until all is fulfilled and
being perfect as our Father is perfect. Now if we are to walk in openness these have to
be faced. But it appears some do not want to be.
E
eternally-gratefull
Guest
i believe number 2 fits here.
Are you so foolish, having begun in the spirit, are you now being perfected in the flesh..
I do not believe they had true faith in Christ, If they had faith in Christ, they would not keep trying to work to earn his salvation (or keep it)
Now I do believe satan can put doubt in our minds, and we can struggle with believing we are truly saved, But that to me is not the same. and I would agree with you there.
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