What is the abomination?

[Chopper]

The Abomination of Desolation will be when the Antichrist defiles the temple placing something in it that defiles it. In the days before Jesus during the time of the Maccabees, the Jews were overthrown and I believe it was a statue of Zeus that was setup in the temple defiling it. It will likely be something similar to this.

Regarding the time, I believe we are very close to the end. I believe we're with a generation.

You are so correct here...

Mat 24:15 When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand

So, what did Daniel speak of?

In 168BC, Antiochus IV, Epiphanes (Epidimes) reared up a statue of Jupiter Olympus and sacrificed swine on the altar at the Temple. This made the Temple desolate of God's presence because it was defiled.

Christ said the AoD would be THE sign...

Mat 24:3 And as he sat upon the mount of Olives, the disciples came unto him privately, saying, Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world?

Notice that they asked what would be THE sign?

Mat 24:14 And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.

When all the things listed before and up to verse 14 have occurred, then this one, enigmatic event will take place...

Mat 24:15 When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand
Mat 24:16 Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains:
Mat 24:17 Let him which is on the housetop not come down to take any thing out of his house:
Mat 24:18 Neither let him which is in the field return back to take his clothes.
Mat 24:19 And woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck in those days!
Mat 24:20 But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day:
Mat 24:21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.

It signals the beginning of the Great Tribulation. It actually occurs in two parts...

Luk 21:20 And when ye shall see Jerusalem compassed with armies, then know that the desolation thereof is nigh.

When one sees armies surround Jerusalem, the desolation is near. When one sees the AoD as described by Daniel, it is time to get out of Dodge.

There's a couple of key elements to look at in the context if what is said here;

When we see the abomination of desolation standing in the holy place...

Now consider this, what did Yahushua say about the temple?
Wasn't it something like destroy it and three days later he would raise it up again?

Think about that, and then consider what else might be a holy place besides a physical temple.

Where did He come into this world in physical form, the temple He rose again on the third day?
Would not the birthplace of ha'Mashiach be a holy place as well?

Then there is this... "statue" or graven image of a false mighty one that was put up in the older temple,
how ironic it is the name of that mighty one is also the same translation of a Greek name called upon in place of the name of Yahushua.

 

[InSpiritInTruth]

what? You twisted my words.

I said the english translation (70 weeks) and you twisted what I meant and laughed at it.

Your the one making a mockery of what was said, not me my friend.

Whatever dude, just admit it, God can show time symbolically,(sign of time) that's my whole point. Later.

 

[kennethcadwell]

So you can decide how God can symbolize time? That's a good one. What you mean is, if that time of 42 months was given as a sign of time, then it would throw a wrench in your whole 7 year tribulation theology. lol If you build your house starting out with an error, you will also end with a house full of errors.

God can symbolize time however he wishes, as God is not bound by the natural mind of man.

Hosea 6:2[SUP]2 [/SUP]After two days will he revive us: in the third day he will raise us up, and we shall live in his sight.

That must be 72 hours right? LOL Silly people.

No it does not throw a wrench in the 7 year time span, as that starts when the man of sin signs the treaty with Israel. Then after half of that 7 years is up he breaks it in the middle, and the final 42 months, 1,260 days, 3 1/2 years is the Great Tribulation period that the Lord and Revelation speaks of. Where the man of sin brings his armies up against the saints in Israel and stands in the temple claiming to be God. The Lord tells the Jews who live in the Judea area that when they see the man of sin do this to flee up into the mountains in Judea.

 

[InSpiritInTruth]

Here's what you need to know about who is sitting in the "temple" God made for Himself to dwell in.

We read in 2 Thessalonians 2:4 “Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.”

Paul here is talking about the man of sin being revealed, the son who will go into destruction, who has “that Wicked” spirit working in him. Many believe this to be a single evil man figure is yet to come, but Paul clearly mentions this spirit working in many, and it “the mystery of iniquity already working”

2 Thessalonians 2:1-12 “ Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him,[SUP]2 [/SUP]That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand.[SUP]3 [/SUP]Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;[SUP]4 [/SUP]Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.[SUP]5 [/SUP]Remember ye not, that, when I was yet with you, I told you these things?[SUP]6 [/SUP]And now ye know what withholdeth that he might be revealed in his time.[SUP]7 [/SUP]For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way.[SUP]8 [/SUP]And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:[SUP]9 [/SUP]Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders,[SUP]10 [/SUP]And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.[SUP]11 [/SUP]And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:[SUP]12 [/SUP]That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness"

Note, in them, they, them, they all is speaking about more than one man. (but many)

But what about sitting in the Temple of God? I believe Paul was speaking in a mystery when he said this, as he was also playing off of other parts of scripture in order to do this. In Ezekiel 28:2 “Son of man, say unto the prince of Tyrus, Thus saith the Lord God; Because thine heart is lifted up, and thou hast said, I am a God, I sit in the seat of God, in the midst of the seas; yet thou art a man, and not God, though thou set thine heart as the heart of God:”

The Lord later goes on to say to this “man” in verse 13 “ Thou hast been in the garden of God;” Now we know the Prince of Tyrus was not in the garden of God, but man (Adam) was. But the Lord later goes on to call this man the “covering cherub.” So the message here is twofold.

The Lord is not just speaking to the prince of Tyrus alone, but to the spirit of “that Wicked” which entered into man (Adam) when sin entered into man. (man of sin)

So when you understand the spirit and the sin nature of the devil is working in the heart of man, then we can begin to see what Paul was saying about this “man of sin” sitting in the temple of God, showing himself that he is God”.

Paul also gave us clue to confirm this message in 1 Corinthians 6:19 “What? know ye not that your body is the temple of the Holy Ghost which is in you, which ye have of God, and ye are not your own?

So our bodies are that temple God created for Himself to dwell in by His Spirit, but “that Wicked” spirit entered in, when sin entered in man= “man of sin”

And Paul goes on to say in 1 Corinthians 3:17 “If any man defile the temple of God, him shall God destroy; for the temple of God is holy, which temple ye are.”

So whosoever has “that Wicked” spirit dwelling in them, (the temple of God) him shall God also destroy. (son of perdition) or son who goes into destruction.

Ya'll have a nice day!

 

[kennethcadwell]

There's a couple of key elements to look at in the context if what is said here;

When we see the abomination of desolation standing in the holy place...

Now consider this, what did Yahushua say about the temple?
Wasn't it something like destroy it and three days later he would raise it up again?

Think about that, and then consider what else might be a holy place besides a physical temple.

Where did He come into this world in physical form, the temple He rose again on the third day?
Would not the birthplace of ha'Mashiach be a holy place as well?

Then there is this... "statue" or graven image of a false mighty one that was put up in the older temple,
how ironic it is the name of that mighty one is also the same translation of a Greek name called upon in place of the name of Yahushua.

The thing is though is it is an actual physical temple and we can see this in two places from scripture.
First is Revelation 11, and second is Ezekiel 40 of the vision of the millennial temple.

 

[john832]

Thanks for proving my point about the sign of time. Now go read my post about the 42 months being a sign of time.

No thanks.

 

[kennethcadwell]

Here's what you need to know about who is sitting in the "temple" God made for Himself to dwell in.

We read in 2 Thessalonians 2:4 “Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.”

Paul here is talking about the man of sin being revealed, the son who will go into destruction, who has “that Wicked” spirit working in him. Many believe this to be a single evil man figure is yet to come, but Paul clearly mentions this spirit working in many, and it “the mystery of iniquity already working”

2 Thessalonians 2:1-12 “ Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him,[SUP]2 [/SUP]That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand.[SUP]3 [/SUP]Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;[SUP]4 [/SUP]Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.[SUP]5 [/SUP]Remember ye not, that, when I was yet with you, I told you these things?[SUP]6 [/SUP]And now ye know what withholdeth that he might be revealed in his time.[SUP]7 [/SUP]For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way.[SUP]8 [/SUP]And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:[SUP]9 [/SUP]Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders,[SUP]10 [/SUP]And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.[SUP]11 [/SUP]And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:[SUP]12 [/SUP]That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness"

Note, in them, they, them, they all is speaking about more than one man. (but many)

But what about sitting in the Temple of God? I believe Paul was speaking in a mystery when he said this, as he was also playing off of other parts of scripture in order to do this. In Ezekiel 28:2 “Son of man, say unto the prince of Tyrus, Thus saith the Lord God; Because thine heart is lifted up, and thou hast said, I am a God, I sit in the seat of God, in the midst of the seas; yet thou art a man, and not God, though thou set thine heart as the heart of God:”

The Lord later goes on to say to this “man” in verse 13 “ Thou hast been in the garden of God;” Now we know the Prince of Tyrus was not in the garden of God, but man (Adam) was. But the Lord later goes on to call this man the “covering cherub.” So the message here is twofold.

The Lord is not just speaking to the prince of Tyrus alone, but to the spirit of “that Wicked” which entered into man (Adam) when sin entered into man. (man of sin)

So when you understand the spirit and the sin nature of the devil is working in the heart of man, then we can begin to see what Paul was saying about this “man of sin” sitting in the temple of God, showing himself that he is God”.

Paul also gave us clue to confirm this message in 1 Corinthians 6:19 “What? know ye not that your body is the temple of the Holy Ghost which is in you, which ye have of God, and ye are not your own?

So our bodies are that temple God created for Himself to dwell in by His Spirit, but “that Wicked” spirit entered in, when sin entered in man= “man of sin”

And Paul goes on to say in 1 Corinthians 3:17 “If any man defile the temple of God, him shall God destroy; for the temple of God is holy, which temple ye are.”

So whosoever has “that Wicked” spirit dwelling in them, (the temple of God) him shall God also destroy. (son of perdition) or son who goes into destruction.

Ya'll have a nice day!

Once again we know about the spirit of unrighteousness that comes from satan, and nobody is denying that. But you have to discern between the fact of the complete group of unbelievers and disobedient ones that are deceived and follow after the lies of satan as this is what verses 10-12 is talking about. Yet Paul just like the rest of the prophetic scriptures teach of one main man that will lead the final 3 1/2 years of the G.T, and he will have another man in the false prophet that will full many to following and worshiping him.

The best way I have seen this explained by many biblical scholars and teachers is that we as believers have are Godhead trinity in the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit.

So satan copies this with his false evil trinity.....satan, antichrist, and false prophet.

 

[Messenger_of_Fire]

Once again we know about the spirit of unrighteousness that comes from satan, and nobody is denying that. But you have to discern between the fact of the complete group of unbelievers and disobedient ones that are deceived and follow after the lies of satan as this is what verses 10-12 is talking about. Yet Paul just like the rest of the prophetic scriptures teach of one main man that will lead the final 3 1/2 years of the G.T, and he will have another man in the false prophet that will full many to following and worshiping him.

The best way I have seen this explained by many biblical scholars and teachers is that we as believers have are Godhead trinity in the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit.

So satan copies this with his false evil trinity.....satan, antichrist, and false prophet.

This cannot be, Kenneth for the simple fact that if alone MANY are expecting some variation of this. If you are not for Him, then you are against Him. The beast out of the sea is the collective system, customs, governments and ways of life over the years. The beast out of the sand are the collective teachers, preachers and leaders that by words seem to have instruction and guidance, but really has its roots in the first that was established before it.

 

[InSpiritInTruth]

Once again we know about the spirit of unrighteousness that comes from satan, and nobody is denying that. But you have to discern between the fact of the complete group of unbelievers and disobedient ones that are deceived and follow after the lies of satan as this is what verses 10-12 is talking about. Yet Paul just like the rest of the prophetic scriptures teach of one main man that will lead the final 3 1/2 years of the G.T, and he will have another man in the false prophet that will full many to following and worshiping him.

The best way I have seen this explained by many biblical scholars and teachers is that we as believers have are Godhead trinity in the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit.

So satan copies this with his false evil trinity.....satan, antichrist, and false prophet.

You mean kind of like this....

What I want to show in this thread is that the Beast and the Harlot in the book of Revelation is united, and not only united by one spirit, but they both speak of many people, not just a single geographic location, or city, or even individual man yet to come in the future. The best way to show this is by looking at the opposite reflection of the True, which is the Church (Bride of the Lamb), and the Lamb, or Christ.

It is written in 1 Corinthians 12:27 “Now ye are the body of Christ, and members in particular.” Here we see Paul refers to the Church as the Body of Christ, and there is a reason for this. We read in Ephesians 5:30-32[SUP] “[/SUP]For we are members of his body, of his flesh, and of his bones.[SUP]31 [/SUP]For this cause shall a man leave his father and mother, and shall be joined unto his wife, and they two shall be one flesh.[SUP]32 [/SUP]This is a great mystery: but I speak concerning Christ and the church.”

And again in 1 Corinthians 12:12-14 “For as the body is one, and hath many members, and all the members of that one body, being many, are one body: so also is Christ.[SUP]13 [/SUP]For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.[SUP]14 [/SUP]For the body is not one member, but many.”

So if can grasp this, how One Spirit unites both the Church and the Lamb into one body, and is made up of many members gathered over the ages, then so also is the scarlet Beast and the Harlot united by one spirit, and also made up of many members.

1 Corinthians 6:16 “What? know ye not that he which is joined to an harlot is one body? for two, saith he, shall be one flesh.”

And if the Bride of the Lamb is shown as the New heavenly Jerusalem and holy city, which is made up of many living stones, then you will also understand that the earthly Jerusalem (Harlot/ false tabernacle) is also made up of many dead stones, or many spiritually dead people; not some a brick and mortar city with a zip code.

Remember, the Holy Ghost teaches us to compare spiritual things with spiritual.

Daniel 7:11“I beheld then because of the voice of the great words which the horn spake: I beheld even till the beast was slain, and his body destroyed, and given to the burning flame.”

Let me know when you find that "man of sin" Ken. Peace

 

[jb]

So when you understand the spirit and the sin nature of the devil is working in the heart of man, then we can begin to see what Paul was saying about this “man of sin” sitting in the temple of God, showing himself that he is God”.

LOL x twice!

What utter ****!

 

[kennethcadwell]

This cannot be, Kenneth for the simple fact that if alone MANY are expecting some variation of this. If you are not for Him, then you are against Him. The beast out of the sea is the collective system, customs, governments and ways of life over the years. The beast out of the sand are the collective teachers, preachers and leaders that by words seem to have instruction and guidance, but really has its roots in the first that was established before it.

You mean kind of like this....

What I want to show in this thread is that the Beast and the Harlot in the book of Revelation is united, and not only united by one spirit, but they both speak of many people, not just a single geographic location, or city, or even individual man yet to come in the future. The best way to show this is by looking at the opposite reflection of the True, which is the Church (Bride of the Lamb), and the Lamb, or Christ.

It is written in 1 Corinthians 12:27 “Now ye are the body of Christ, and members in particular.” Here we see Paul refers to the Church as the Body of Christ, and there is a reason for this. We read in Ephesians 5:30-32[SUP] “[/SUP]For we are members of his body, of his flesh, and of his bones.[SUP]31 [/SUP]For this cause shall a man leave his father and mother, and shall be joined unto his wife, and they two shall be one flesh.[SUP]32 [/SUP]This is a great mystery: but I speak concerning Christ and the church.”

And again in 1 Corinthians 12:12-14 “For as the body is one, and hath many members, and all the members of that one body, being many, are one body: so also is Christ.[SUP]13 [/SUP]For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.[SUP]14 [/SUP]For the body is not one member, but many.”

So if can grasp this, how One Spirit unites both the Church and the Lamb into one body, and is made up of many members gathered over the ages, then so also is the scarlet Beast and the Harlot united by one spirit, and also made up of many members.

1 Corinthians 6:16 “What? know ye not that he which is joined to an harlot is one body? for two, saith he, shall be one flesh.”

And if the Bride of the Lamb is shown as the New heavenly Jerusalem and holy city, which is made up of many living stones, then you will also understand that the earthly Jerusalem (Harlot/ false tabernacle) is also made up of many dead stones, or many spiritually dead people; not some a brick and mortar city with a zip code.

Remember, the Holy Ghost teaches us to compare spiritual things with spiritual.

Daniel 7:11“I beheld then because of the voice of the great words which the horn spake: I beheld even till the beast was slain, and his body destroyed, and given to the burning flame.”

Let me know when you find that "man of sin" Ken. Peace

The main figure will be the leader of the revised Roman empire that the prophetic scriptures speak of in Daniel 2:33-34 and Daniel 7:7-8. And the false prophet which is the catholic church with the pope as the leader spoke of in Revelation 13:11-15.

Daniel 2:33-34 (Roman empire)

33 its legs of iron, its feet partly of iron and partly of clay. 34 You continued looking until a stone was cut out without hands, and it struck the statue on its feet of iron and clay and crushed them. (The Stone is the Lord Jesus Christ)

Daniel 7:7-8 (Roman empire with the man of sin as its leader)

7 “After this I saw in the night visions, and behold, a fourth beast, dreadful and terrible, exceedingly strong. It had huge iron teeth; it was devouring, breaking in pieces, and trampling the residue with its feet. It was different from all the beasts that were before it, and it had ten horns.
(10 horns are 10 kings, in which the following shows another king that rises up and rules over them all)8 I was considering the horns, and there was another horn, a little one, coming up among them, before whom three of the first horns were plucked out by the roots. And there, in this horn,were eyes like the eyes of a man, and a mouth speaking pompous words.
Revelation 13:11-15 (False prophet)

11 Then I saw another beast coming up out of the earth, and he had two horns like a lamb and spoke like a dragon. 12 And he exercises all the authority of the first beast in his presence, and causes the earth and those who dwell in it to worship the first beast, whose deadly wound was healed. 13 He performs great signs, so that he even makes fire come down from heaven on the earth in the sight of men. 14 And he deceives those[a] who dwell on the earth by those signs which he was granted to do in the sight of the beast, telling those who dwell on the earth to make an image to the beast who was wounded by the sword and lived. 15 He was granted power to give breath to the image of the beast, that the image of the beast should both speak and cause as many as would not worship the image of the beast to be killed.



We see this same picture from Daniel 2:33-34 in Revelation 19:19-20......

[h=1]Revelation 19:19-20[/h]19 And I saw the beast, the kings of the earth, and their armies, gathered together to make war against Him who sat on the horse and against His army.20 Then the beast was captured, and with him the false prophet who worked signs in his presence, by which he deceived those who received the mark of the beast and those who worshiped his image. These two were cast alive into the lake of fire burning with brimstone.

 

[InSpiritInTruth]

LOL x twice!

What utter ****!

A prime example of my point, thanks for the confirmation!

 

[Butch5]

InSpiritInTruth,

If you answered my question I missed it, can you answer it here? If these things have already taken place where are Jesus and the Apostles?

 

[InSpiritInTruth]

The main figure will be the leader of the revised Roman empire that the prophetic scriptures speak of in Daniel 2:33-34 and Daniel 7:7-8. And the false prophet which is the catholic church with the pope as the leader spoke of in Revelation 13:11-15.

Daniel 2:33-34 (Roman empire)

33 its legs of iron, its feet partly of iron and partly of clay.34 You continued looking until a stone was cut out without hands, and it struck the statue on its feet of iron and clay and crushed them. (The Stone is the Lord Jesus Christ)

Daniel 7:7-8 (Roman empire with the man of sin as its leader)

7 “After this I saw in the night visions, and behold, a fourth beast, dreadful and terrible, exceedingly strong. It had huge iron teeth; it was devouring, breaking in pieces, and trampling the residue with its feet. It was different from all the beasts that were before it, and it had ten horns.
(10 horns are 10 kings, in which the following shows another king that rises up and rules over them all)8 I was considering the horns, and there was another horn, a little one, coming up among them, before whom three of the first horns were plucked out by the roots. And there, in this horn,were eyes like the eyes of a man, and a mouth speaking pompous words.
Revelation 13:11-15 (False prophet)

11 Then I saw another beast coming up out of the earth, and he had two horns like a lamb and spoke like a dragon. 12 And he exercises all the authority of the first beast in his presence, and causes the earth and those who dwell in it to worship the first beast, whose deadly wound was healed. 13 He performs great signs, so that he even makes fire come down from heaven on the earth in the sight of men. 14 And he deceives those[a] who dwell on the earth by those signs which he was granted to do in the sight of the beast, telling those who dwell on the earth to make an image to the beast who was wounded by the sword and lived. 15 He was granted power to give breath to the image of the beast, that the image of the beast should both speak and cause as many as would not worship the image of the beast to be killed.



We see this same picture from Daniel 2:33-34 in Revelation 19:19-20......

Revelation 19:19-20

19 And I saw the beast, the kings of the earth, and their armies, gathered together to make war against Him who sat on the horse and against His army.20 Then the beast was captured, and with him the false prophet who worked signs in his presence, by which he deceived those who received the mark of the beast and those who worshiped his image. These two were cast alive into the lake of fire burning with brimstone.

No doubt Daniel was shown 4 main kingdoms, and out of the 4th would come the Roman empire (fulfilled) but the beast in (Rev 13 and 17) is not a revised Roman Empire, just a global beast system made up of all the body parts of the ones shown to Daniel. Also the little horn speaks of the tail of the Dragon, (casts the stars to the ground) no man can do this, but the spirit of a lie can.

And the "man of sin" spirit is at work in the beast, but it has been ever since the 7 headed ten horned Dragon was cast down from heaven at the time of Christ. Rev 12 ( Catholic church was not even around then, so that's a fail)

Pay close attention to what Paul says about the "man of sin" here...

2 Thessalonians 2:6-7[SUP]6 [/SUP]And now ye know what withholdeth that he might be revealed in his time.
[SUP]7 [/SUP]For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way.

This proves my point about the "man of sin" being a spirit working in many. Paul said something was withholding that he might be revealed. Also that the mystery was already working in his time (so it's not a flesh and blood man). And also "he who lets will let" is God who has blinded the minds of men by giving them over to this same spirit, until he be taken out of the way. (meaning he must be removed from the mind)

 

[InSpiritInTruth]

InSpiritInTruth,

If you answered my question I missed it, can you answer it here? If these things have already taken place where are Jesus and the Apostles?

If what things have already taken place? The abomination of desolation spoken of by Daniel has been fulfilled and the destruction of the temple have been fulfilled, as Jesus also confirmed would happen, and as history also proves. But not all the prophecy Jesus gave concerning "the end of the world" has been fulfilled yet, that's obvious.

 

[kennethcadwell]

No doubt Daniel was shown 4 main kingdoms, and out of the 4th would come the Roman empire (fulfilled) but the beast in (Rev 13 and 17) is not a revised Roman Empire, just a global beast system made up of all the body parts of the ones shown to Daniel. Also the little horn speaks of the tail of the Dragon, (casts the stars to the ground) no man can do this, but the spirit of a lie can.

And the "man of sin" spirit is at work in the beast, but it has been ever since the 7 headed ten horned Dragon was cast down from heaven at the time of Christ. Rev 12 ( Catholic church was not even around then, so that's a fail)

Pay close attention to what Paul says about the "man of sin" here...

2 Thessalonians 2:6-7[SUP]6 [/SUP]And now ye know what withholdeth that he might be revealed in his time.
[SUP]7 [/SUP]For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way.

This proves my point about the "man of sin" being a spirit working in many. Paul said something was withholding that he might be revealed. Also that the mystery was already working in his time (so it's not a flesh and blood man). And also "he who lets will let" is God who has blinded the minds of men by giving them over to this same spirit, until he be taken out of the way. (meaning he must be removed from the mind)

The 4th beast kingdom of the revised Roman empire was not fulfilled already.
Daniel 2 and Revelation 19 both show that the Lord Himself when He comes back is the one who goes to war with this 4th kingdom and its leader and casts them into the lake of fire.
The Lord did not come back in 70 AD and to this day still has not come back, so the 70 AD event is not the 4th kingdom that is talked about here. This is happening in the European union right now.

 

[InSpiritInTruth]

The 4th beast kingdom of the revised Roman empire was not fulfilled already.
Daniel 2 and Revelation 19 both show that the Lord Himself when He comes back is the one who goes to war with this 4th kingdom and its leader and casts them into the lake of fire.
The Lord did not come back in 70 AD and to this day still has not come back, so the 70 AD event is not the 4th kingdom that is talked about here. This is happening in the European union right now.

The 4th beast is the conglomeration of all the beasts starting in the days of the Roman empire. Look at the 3 previous beasts in Daniel and compare to Rev 13 beast (4th global beast system)

Daniel 7:3-7[SUP]3 [/SUP]And four great beasts came up from the sea, diverse one from another.
[SUP]4 [/SUP]The first was like a lion, and had eagle's wings: I beheld till the wings thereof were plucked, and it was lifted up from the earth, and made stand upon the feet as a man, and a man's heart was given to it.
[SUP]5 [/SUP]And behold another beast, a second, like to a bear, and it raised up itself on one side, and it had three ribs in the mouth of it between the teeth of it: and they said thus unto it, Arise, devour much flesh.
[SUP]6 [/SUP]After this I beheld, and lo another, like a leopard, which had upon the back of it four wings of a fowl; the beast had also four heads; and dominion was given to it.

[SUP]7 [/SUP]After this I saw in the night visions, and behold a fourth beast, dreadful and terrible, and strong exceedingly; and it had great iron teeth: it devoured and brake in pieces, and stamped the residue with the feet of it: and it was diverse from all the beasts that were before it; and it had ten horns.

Now the 4th global beast....Revelation 13:1-2
13 And I stood upon the sand of the sea, and saw a beast rise up out of the sea, having seven heads and ten horns, and upon his horns ten crowns, and upon his heads the name of blasphemy.
[SUP]2 [/SUP]And the beast which I saw was like unto a leopard, and his feet were as the feet of a bear, and his mouth as the mouth of a lion: and the dragon gave him his power, and his seat, and great authority.

This 4th beast was in place already during the Roman empire. (Rev 12 confirms timing)

 

[kennethcadwell]

The 4th beast is the conglomeration of all the beasts starting in the days of the Roman empire. Look at the 3 previous beasts in Daniel and compare to Rev 13 beast (4th global beast system)

Daniel 7:3-7[SUP]3 [/SUP]And four great beasts came up from the sea, diverse one from another.
[SUP]4 [/SUP]The first was like a lion, and had eagle's wings: I beheld till the wings thereof were plucked, and it was lifted up from the earth, and made stand upon the feet as a man, and a man's heart was given to it.
[SUP]5 [/SUP]And behold another beast, a second, like to a bear, and it raised up itself on one side, and it had three ribs in the mouth of it between the teeth of it: and they said thus unto it, Arise, devour much flesh.
[SUP]6 [/SUP]After this I beheld, and lo another, like a leopard, which had upon the back of it four wings of a fowl; the beast had also four heads; and dominion was given to it.

[SUP]7 [/SUP]After this I saw in the night visions, and behold a fourth beast, dreadful and terrible, and strong exceedingly; and it had great iron teeth: it devoured and brake in pieces, and stamped the residue with the feet of it: and it was diverse from all the beasts that were before it; and it had ten horns.

Now the 4th global beast....Revelation 13:1-2
13 And I stood upon the sand of the sea, and saw a beast rise up out of the sea, having seven heads and ten horns, and upon his horns ten crowns, and upon his heads the name of blasphemy.
[SUP]2 [/SUP]And the beast which I saw was like unto a leopard, and his feet were as the feet of a bear, and his mouth as the mouth of a lion: and the dragon gave him his power, and his seat, and great authority.

This 4th beast was in place already during the Roman empire. (Rev 12 confirms timing)

The beast in Revelation 13 is a combination of the Roman empire and the other 3 beast kingdoms from Daniel, so yes it is all of them from Daniel combined so the Roman empire is still here. Which still does not do away with how Daniel 2 and Revelation 19 says that the Lord Himself will come back and destroy, so once again the AOD could not have happened in 70 AD as the leader Titus did not fulfill going into the temple and claim to be God and the Lord did not come back and destroy him. All points must fit, not just part of them.

And I don't go with the traditional thinking that the 3 beasts in Daniel 7 are a parallel with the statue in Daniel 2, because that would place Babylon still part of the end time kingdom that Christ destroys when the bible clearly says the antichrist/man of sin destroys Babylon. Here is what some prophetic scholars have started to turn to;

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Daniel 7:4

The first was like a lion, and had eagle's wings: I beheld till the wings thereof were plucked, and it was lifted up from the earth, and made stand upon the feet as a man, and a man's heart was given to it.

( First beast is Great Britain, and the eagle's wings is America. As we can see that the wings plucked away from the lion as American did from Great Britain in 1776, then made to stand up like a man, hince are second symbol Uncle Sam. )


Bear of course is simply Russia


Daniel 7:6

After this I beheld, and lo another, like a leopard, which had upon the back of it four wings of a fowl; the beast had also four heads; and dominion was given to it.

( The third beast is Germany as we see it has had a 1st, 2nd, and 3rd Reich's, and it is now rising slowly to a 4th Reich. Hince the 4 heads. Then the wings of the fowl symbolizes France, who has been their biggest ally since the Franco-German pact, and Frances symbol is that of a Rooster. )

 

[InSpiritInTruth]

And I don't go with the traditional thinking that the 3 beasts in Daniel 7 are a parallel with the statue in Daniel 2, because that would place Babylon still part of the end time kingdom that Christ destroys when the bible clearly says the antichrist/man of sin destroys Babylon. Here is what some prophetic scholars have started to turn to;

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Daniel 7:4

The first was like a lion, and had eagle's wings: I beheld till the wings thereof were plucked, and it was lifted up from the earth, and made stand upon the feet as a man, and a man's heart was given to it.

( First beast is Great Britain, and the eagle's wings is America. As we can see that the wings plucked away from the lion as American did from Great Britain in 1776, then made to stand up like a man, hince are second symbol Uncle Sam. )


Bear of course is simply Russia

Christ is going to bring down all the kingdoms of the world, but your timing is off concerning the kingdoms shown to Daniel. Rev 12 proves your timing is wrong with the 4th and final beast, 7 heads 10 horns.

Revelation 12:3-4[SUP]3 [/SUP]And there appeared another wonder in heaven; and behold a great red dragon, having seven heads and ten horns, and seven crowns upon his heads.
[SUP]4 [/SUP]And his tail drew the third part of the stars of heaven, and did cast them to the earth: and the dragon stood before the woman which was ready to be delivered, for to devour her child as soon as it was born.

The beast was already in place ready to devour the child as soon as it was born. (hello) lol



Also Daniel was given the explanation in chapter 8 who would come after Babylonian empire, so why come up with your own version? But whatever. Good night.

 

[Butch5]

If what things have already taken place? The abomination of desolation spoken of by Daniel has been fulfilled and the destruction of the temple have been fulfilled, as Jesus also confirmed would happen, and as history also proves. But not all the prophecy Jesus gave concerning "the end of the world" has been fulfilled yet, that's obvious.

But, we know when the abomination of desolation is placed in the temple there will be times, time, and half a time, until the return to Christ. Where is He? When He returns the apostles were to reign, where are they?