What is the Meaning of This Parable

[Pilgrimshope]

As with many, you continue to ignore the differences that I pointed out AS glaring distinctions, and that's unfortunate, but it's on you, not me. Let me know when you begin to sacrifice animals for sin. I'd like to see that for myself and where you get the priests since you seem to believe that there are no distinctions between gospel messages to differing people at differing times in differing places.

Emboldenbing and enlarging the text doesn't make your doctrine any more true than to emblazon it all in the sky with airplanes and smoke.

MM

No actually you just have no answer to any of those scriptures telling you what Paul preached it’s not everyone else’s issue it’s you tbat won’t hear what’s there

There’s one gospel jesus was sent to earth to preach it . Then he chose witnesses to preach that same gospel to everyone. The Jews heard the fisoel first because it was thier promise but they rejected it and he offers it to everyone now.

its people who reject the gospel of the kingdom who invent other gospels by haggling Paul’s words which we are already warned about beforehand of course

 

[Musicmaster]

The Bible as a whole is ALL built upon the foundation of Christ Jesus. However, mistakenly failing to grant unto the Lord the same consideration all us fathers make in our own families, in that we deal differently with our daughters than we do our sons in some respects, even though they were born within one year to many years of each other, the differences in how we deal with them does differ.

Failing to allow our understanding to embrace the Lord's own freedom to deal with mankind in the same manner is to introduce a level of dissonance that is disturbing to say the least.

MM

 

[Musicmaster]

No actually you just have no answer to any of those scriptures telling you what Paul preached it’s not everyone else’s issue it’s you tbat won’t hear what’s there

There’s one gospel jesus was sent to earth to preach it . Then he chose witnesses to preach that same gospel to everyone. The Jews heard the fisoel first because it was thier promise but they rejected it and he offers it to everyone now.

its people who reject the gospel of the kingdom who invent other gospels by haggling Paul’s words which we are already warned about beforehand of course

Your argument is very much like claiming that the word "cleave" has only one meaning, in that it's the same every time it's used throughout.

Sorry, but I simply cannot accept your false accusation as possessing any measure of relevance.

MM

 

[Pilgrimshope]

Your argument is very much like claiming that the word "cleave" has only one meaning, in that it's the same every time it's used throughout.

Sorry, but I simply cannot accept your false accusation as possessing any measure of relevance.

MM

Yea your argument requires me to ignore the Bible in a bible discussion forum and just assume you have some secret knowledge of some mysterious origin lol no thanks

i think we’re at an impass though so I’ll let you discuss with others and stop hassling you with scripture

 

[Pilgrimshope]

The Bible as a whole is ALL built upon the foundation of Christ Jesus. However, mistakenly failing to grant unto the Lord the same consideration all us fathers make in our own families, in that we deal differently with our daughters than we do our sons in some respects, even though they were born within one year to many years of each other, the differences in how we deal with them does differ.

Failing to allow our understanding to embrace the Lord's own freedom to deal with mankind in the same manner is to introduce a level of dissonance that is disturbing to say the least.

MM

Are you here to discuss the Bible ?

 

[Musicmaster]

Yea your argument requires me to ignore the Bible in a bible discussion forum and just assume you have some secret knowledge of some mysterious origin lol no thanks

i think we’re at an impass though so I’ll let you discuss with others and stop hassling you with scripture

The Bible is precisely the subject of this discussion, but taking advantage of the imprecisions of English translations without any consideration for the original languages through systematic studies, that's the fodder of the armchair experts in doctrines steeped in simplicities of error.

I'm not here to take away your freedom to believe whatever you want. Continue following your "pastor" and what he teaches. That's the freedom everyone has. Claiming that I failed to answer your claims by ignoring what I HAVE actually said, that's on you, not me.

Go for it. Try to harmonize all the Bible as possessing one Gospel message that's allegedly the same throughout, immersed in the fact that you don't practice a consistent application of what you've been claiming in this thread, and that leads to only one descriptor term...

So we agree to disagree by you sticking to weaknesses in the English translations, and I digging deeper into the Greek and Hebrew from which the English translations originate. Bible 101 students know not to perpetrate such errors, but that doesn't mean that all others lose their freedom to believe whatever they want.

I will not apologize for failing to be so simplistic in my handling of the scriptures. I will however, accord to you the freedom to believe whatever you want about the Bible and even about me personally. It makes no never mind to me. I've quoted and rationalized the reasons behind my words without having to exaggerate with boldened lettering through enlarged text for emphasis, as if that proves anything.

For example, the prosperity gospel rests on the same foundations of simplistic errors, as does oneness and many other aberrant doctrines. Every aberrant gang has on their side those with Th.D's attached to their names riding along on their bandwagons, waving the letters attached to their names, but as for me personally, I do my own study, and thus trying to take proper responsibility for what I choose to believe, just as you rest your study on translations that never claim , to my knowledge, to be on the level of the languages from which they were translated. The KJV translators even admitted that they did not consider the KJV to be the "best" translation available at the time.

We agree to disagree, and that's good enough for me.

MM

 

[Pilgrimshope]

The Bible is precisely the subject of this discussion, but taking advantage of the imprecisions of English translations without any consideration for the original languages through systematic studies, that's the fodder of the armchair experts in doctrines steeped in simplicities of error.

I'm not here to take away your freedom to believe whatever you want. Continue following your "pastor" and what he teaches. That's the freedom everyone has. Claiming that I failed to answer your claims by ignoring what I HAVE actually said, that's on you, not me.

Go for it. Try to harmonize all the Bible as possessing one Gospel message that's allegedly the same throughout, immersed in the fact that you don't practice a consistent application of what you've been claiming in this thread, and that leads to only one descriptor term...

So we agree to disagree by you sticking to weaknesses in the English translations, and I digging deeper into the Greek and Hebrew from which the English translations originate. Bible 101 students know not to perpetrate such errors, but that doesn't mean that all others lose their freedom to believe whatever they want.

I will not apologize for failing to be so simplistic in my handling of the scriptures. I will however, accord to you the freedom to believe whatever you want about the Bible and even about me personally. It makes no never mind to me. I've quoted and rationalized the reasons behind my words without having to exaggerate with boldened lettering through enlarged text for emphasis, as if that proves anything.

For example, the prosperity gospel rests on the same foundations of simplistic errors, as does oneness and many other aberrant doctrines. Every aberrant gang has on their side those with Th.D's attached to their names riding along on their bandwagons, waving the letters attached to their names, but as for me personally, I do my own study, and thus trying to take proper responsibility for what I choose to believe, just as you rest your study on translations that never claim , to my knowledge, to be on the level of the languages from which they were translated. The KJV translators even admitted that they did not consider the KJV to be the "best" translation available at the time.

We agree to disagree, and that's good enough for me.

MM

All I really am understanding from you is don’t believe the things the Bible says . Is there any translation of the Bible that is acceptable to you? Simple question

 

[Musicmaster]

So, back to the OP, we see the beginnings of the Gospel of Grace rooted in the cutting down of that "olive tree," which, as some have pointed out, is representative of Israel. That's not to say this lends credence to replacement theology, but rather that Israel is set aside for the time of the Gentiles to play itself out to the end of this age of grace when the "departure" takes place that some translations render as "the falling away."

Jesus made direct reference to the tribulation period where the Kingdom Gospel will once again be reinstated as indicated by this:

Matthew 24:13 But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.

See that? The Kingdom Gospel clearly is rooted in personal effort to "endure unto the end."

That is not at all a requirement laid down as a requirement for the Gospel of Grace preached by Paul to the body of Christ. We are not GOING to be saved at some future time on the basis of self-effort for endurance, but there are some who think that the two are one and the same. That simply is not possible.

2 Corinthians 1:22 Who hath also sealed us, and given the earnest of the Spirit in our hearts.

Ephesians 1:13 In whom ye also [trusted], after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,

Ephesians 4:30 And grieve not the holy Spirit of God, whereby ye are sealed unto the day of redemption.

The Bible means what it says to those people to whom it is speaking. The Bible is FOR us, not not all of it is written TO us. There's a difference.

So, we can see in the above verses that the body of Christ is SEALED unto salvation at the point of faith, not at some future time through self-effort after having to endure unto the end of our lives. Jesus was speaking about those in the tribulation period, for which the body of Christ has no reason to fear. We are sealed right now, and to think that we will be left here to pass into that dispensation on this earth, with that sealing of Holy Spirit being ripped from us, that too is a theological warp and twist that scripture simply offers no grounding whatsoever.

So, this difference in both Gospels, both of which are true for those to whom they were inspired and written, the claim they are one and the same is just not possible. Nobody can be sealed by Holy Spirit, and yet their salvation be future on the basis of their self-effort for endurance. Believing that is like believing that pigs, by nature, can fly.

MM

 

[Musicmaster]

All I really am understanding from you is don’t believe the things the Bible says . Is there any translation of the Bible that is acceptable to you? Simple question

Actually, no, my friend. What I disbelieve is what you THINK the Bible is saying. Your system of interpretation is flawed when rested solely on the English translations. THAT is what I've been saying. Please see the further evidence offered in the post #88 above.

MM

 

[Pilgrimshope]

Actually, no, my friend. What I disbelieve is what you THINK the Bible is saying. Your system of interpretation is flawed when rested solely on the English translations. THAT is what I've been saying. Please see the further evidence offered in the post #88 above.

MM

So you can’t answer a simple straight forward question ?

Is there any version of the bible tbat you believe is accurate in what it says?

 

[Musicmaster]

So you can’t answer a simple straight forward question ?

Is there any version of the bible tbat you believe is accurate in what it says?

They ALL have SOME accurate statements for meaning. The problem is weaknesses in English wording that leads to misinterpretation.

Look at all the denominations out there based upon all the differing doctrinal groupings, and you ask me if there's any one English translation that is beyond anyone misinterpreting? Are you serious? Failure to delve into the original languages AND systematic study is precisely the issue here.

What's also at issue is that you are complete avoiding my point in post #88, which is VERY curious in itself, which PROVES that the Kingdom Gospel is not the same thing as the Gospel of Grace that Paul preached. You're avoiding that like the plague.

MM

 

[Pilgrimshope]

They ALL have SOME accurate statements for meaning. The problem is weaknesses in English wording that leads to misinterpretation.

Look at all the denominations out there based upon all the differing doctrinal groupings, and you ask me if there's any one English translation that is beyond anyone misinterpreting? Are you serious? Failure to delve into the original languages AND systematic study is precisely the issue here.

What's also at issue is that you are complete avoiding my point in post #88, which is VERY curious in itself, which PROVES that the Kingdom Gospel is not the same thing as the Gospel of Grace that Paul preached. You're avoiding that like the plague.

MM

Lol so first we need to become multi lingual professional translators and become better than the many who have translated any given biblical text . First we need to do that and that’s going to heko us understand that there’s a different gospel that Paul taught ?

If it’s all a weakness in English that makes each bu ke so flawed and have only “ some accurate statements “ heavens , what if Spanish speaking believer ?

I never knew we needed to first become professional linguists and translators of Greek and Hebrew lol I thought the Holy Spirit preached the gospel in every man’s language ? But haha that’s probably a mistranslation to I suppose if it doesn’t fit the alternate gospel theory

and so your point is this all those scriptures I quoted that say Paul eas preaching the same gospel of the kingdom in his epistles every one of those is a mistranslation because l those professional translators didn’t inderrrsnd what you do and so now I just “think “ it says this stuff it says because I speak English ? And the English language is weak ?

This argument belongs in a conspiracy theory forum my friend

i think honestly you disagree with a lot of what it says so you spin a long circle to avoid what it says completely and then explain what you think that’s the opposite

does God only speak one language ? Seems like God dealt with the language barrier early on with the Holy Ghost at pentocost

 

[Musicmaster]

Lol so first we need to become multi lingual professional translators and become better than the many who have translated any given biblical text . First we need to do that and that’s going to heko us understand that there’s a different gospel that Paul taught ?

If it’s all a weakness in English that makes each bu ke so flawed and have only “ some accurate statements “ heavens , what if Spanish speaking believer ?

I never knew we needed to first become professional linguists and translators of Greek and Hebrew lol I thought the Holy Spirit preached the gospel in every man’s language ? But haha that’s probably a mistranslation to I suppose if it doesn’t fit the alternate gospel theory

and so your point is this all those scriptures I quoted that say Paul eas preaching the same gospel of the kingdom in his epistles every one of those is a mistranslation because l those professional translators didn’t inderrrsnd what you do and so now I just “think “ it says this stuff it says because I speak English ? And the English language is weak ?

This argument belongs in a conspiracy theory forum my friend

i think honestly you disagree with a lot of what it says so you spin a long circle to avoid what it says completely and then explain what you think that’s the opposite

does God only speak one language ? Seems like God dealt with the language barrier early on with the Holy Ghost at pentocost

You misrepresented what I said. I said there are inherent weaknesses in translation, not that everyone must become multi-lingual.

If one wants to understand the deeper things of the Bible, there are many tools they can use without having to become linguists, and if one is going to be a teacher to instruct others, then they need to do better than to simply convey what they think that the English translation is saying from the originals, the history, the people speaking, the audience, and all the other rudiments of deeper study.

Your antagonistic bent upon twisting the words of others to win at all costs, even to your own integrity, it's quite astounding really, and very sad.

If you want to try living by the Kingdom gospel, then do as Peter said in the English translations:

1 Peter 3:21 The like figure whereunto [even] baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ:

So, the resurrection of Christ is what empowers baptism to save those who are baptized...

Like I said, the evidence stands in stark contrast to you and your claims, which I have effectively demonstrated as false, and you persist along the vein of antagonist, fixated on only one thing rather than to grapple with the discussion from the Bible itself.

That is in itself very telling, and I wish you the best in your endeavors to earn your salvation through baptism, repentance and any and all the other elemental items of works you care to thrown into the mix, but they will all burn in the day of fire.

Good luck. You're going to need it.

MM

 

[Pilgrimshope]

You misrepresented what I said. I said there are inherent weaknesses in translation, not that everyone must become multi-lingual.

If one wants to understand the deeper things of the Bible, there are many tools they can use without having to become linguists, and if one is going to be a teacher to instruct others, then they need to do better than to simply convey what they think that the English translation is saying from the originals, the history, the people speaking, the audience, and all the other rudiments of deeper study.

Your antagonistic bent upon twisting the words of others to win at all costs, even to your own integrity, it's quite astounding really, and very sad.

If you want to try living by the Kingdom gospel, then do as Peter said in the English translations:

1 Peter 3:21 The like figure whereunto [even] baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ:

So, the resurrection of Christ is what empowers baptism to save those who are baptized...

Like I said, the evidence stands in stark contrast to you and your claims, which I have effectively demonstrated as false, and you persist along the vein of antagonist, fixated on only one thing rather than to grapple with the discussion from the Bible itself.

That is in itself very telling, and I wish you the best in your endeavors to earn your salvation through baptism, repentance and any and all the other elemental items of works you care to thrown into the mix, but they will all burn in the day of fire.

Good luck. You're going to need it.

MM

Ok man take care

 

[DavyP]

Judah (or Jews of the house of Judah) are described by God in Jeremiah 24 as the good basket of figs.

Jer 24:1-8
24 The LORD shewed me, and, behold, two baskets of figs were set before the temple of the LORD, after that Nebuchadrezzar king of Babylon had carried away captive Jeconiah the son of Jehoiakim king of Judah, and the princes of Judah, with the carpenters and smiths, from Jerusalem, and had brought them to Babylon.

2 One basket had very good figs, even like the figs that are first ripe: and the other basket had very naughty figs, which could not be eaten, they were so bad.

3 Then said the LORD unto me, "What seest thou, Jeremiah?" And I said, "Figs; the good figs, very good; and the evil, very evil, that cannot be eaten, they are so evil."

Literal figs are not evil, so what's God message with that bad basket of figs? Keep that in mind, and continue...


4 Again the word of the LORD came unto me, saying,

5 Thus saith the LORD, the God of Israel; "Like these good figs, so will I acknowledge them that are carried away captive of Judah, whom I have sent out of this place into the land of the Chaldeans for their good.
6 For I will set Mine eyes upon them for good, and I will bring them again to this land: and I will build them, and not pull them down; and I will plant them, and not pluck them up.

7 And I will give them an heart to know Me, that I am the LORD: and they shall be My people, and I will be their God: for they shall return unto Me with their whole heart.

The 3-tribe "house of Judah" (Jews) in Jeremiah's day went into captivity to Babylon for falling away from God into idol worship. That did not involve the majority of Israelites, as the ten northern tribe "house of Israel" had by then already been scattered out of the holy land, captive to Assyria and the lands of the Medes.

With this Promise to Judah from God, it means that He would return them back to the land, and build them and not pull them down and not pluck them up. That has to be when the "house of Judah" became the nation of Israel again in 1948, because the Romans in 70 A.D. did scatter the Jews out of the land (Diaspora), and the Jews only began returning in stages back to the holy land in later centuries after many of the Jews were cast out of Europe during the times of the early Christian nations.

Their return in 1948 represents the budding of the fig tree per Christ's command that we learn a parable of the fig tree as stated in His Olivet discourse. So most likely, Jesus was pointing to 'rebellious' Jews with His command to cut down the unbearing fig tree.


8 And as the evil figs, which cannot be eaten, they are so evil; surely thus saith the LORD, So will I give Zedekiah the king of Judah, and his princes, and the residue of Jerusalem, that remain in this land, and them that dwell in the land of Egypt:
KJV

This part many fail to pay attention to. These are the evil basket of figs. They are mixed in among the Judah, having crept in among Israel long ago per Old Testament history. For example, per 1 Chronicles 2:55, the Kenites which were a foreign people of the land of Canaan, became Israel's scribes in charge of keeping copies of God's Word from generation to generation. Some of these were among the false Pharisees that sought to kill Lord Jesus. Per Judges 2 & 3, God rebuked the children of Israel when they went into the lands of Canaan because they failed to complete God's command to literally wipe out seven specific nations of Canaan, because they had been doing all sorts of evil and idol worship, and He had given them 430 years to repent. Leftovers of them became bondservants among Israel, and eventually some of them crept into Israel's priesthood (see Ezra and Nehemiah).

So we cannot just point to 'unbelieving' Jews at Christ's 1st coming, because remember Paul warned us to not be conceited about their disbelief, because God spiritually blinded them so The Gospel would go to the Gentiles (Rom.11). Not all Jews at Christ's 1st coming were guilty and wanting to kill Jesus. Even Nicodemus, a Pharisee, provided spices for Jesus' burial. And some of the Pharisees believed on Lord Jesus Christ. But the evil figs, those were, and still are, about servants of the devil, the children of darkness. And it most likely will be those evil figs that will cause Israel to sign onto the Daniel 11 "league" or confirming of the covenant of Dan.9, which the coming Antichrist will make with those false Jews in Jerusalem.

 

[Musicmaster]

Judah (or Jews of the house of Judah) are described by God in Jeremiah 24 as the good basket of figs.

Jer 24:1-8
24 The LORD shewed me, and, behold, two baskets of figs were set before the temple of the LORD, after that Nebuchadrezzar king of Babylon had carried away captive Jeconiah the son of Jehoiakim king of Judah, and the princes of Judah, with the carpenters and smiths, from Jerusalem, and had brought them to Babylon.

2 One basket had very good figs, even like the figs that are first ripe: and the other basket had very naughty figs, which could not be eaten, they were so bad.

3 Then said the LORD unto me, "What seest thou, Jeremiah?" And I said, "Figs; the good figs, very good; and the evil, very evil, that cannot be eaten, they are so evil."

Literal figs are not evil, so what's God message with that bad basket of figs? Keep that in mind, and continue...


4 Again the word of the LORD came unto me, saying,

5 Thus saith the LORD, the God of Israel; "Like these good figs, so will I acknowledge them that are carried away captive of Judah, whom I have sent out of this place into the land of the Chaldeans for their good.
6 For I will set Mine eyes upon them for good, and I will bring them again to this land: and I will build them, and not pull them down; and I will plant them, and not pluck them up.

7 And I will give them an heart to know Me, that I am the LORD: and they shall be My people, and I will be their God: for they shall return unto Me with their whole heart.

The 3-tribe "house of Judah" (Jews) in Jeremiah's day went into captivity to Babylon for falling away from God into idol worship. That did not involve the majority of Israelites, as the ten northern tribe "house of Israel" had by then already been scattered out of the holy land, captive to Assyria and the lands of the Medes.

With this Promise to Judah from God, it means that He would return them back to the land, and build them and not pull them down and not pluck them up. That has to be when the "house of Judah" became the nation of Israel again in 1948, because the Romans in 70 A.D. did scatter the Jews out of the land (Diaspora), and the Jews only began returning in stages back to the holy land in later centuries after many of the Jews were cast out of Europe during the times of the early Christian nations.

Their return in 1948 represents the budding of the fig tree per Christ's command that we learn a parable of the fig tree as stated in His Olivet discourse. So most likely, Jesus was pointing to 'rebellious' Jews with His command to cut down the unbearing fig tree.


8 And as the evil figs, which cannot be eaten, they are so evil; surely thus saith the LORD, So will I give Zedekiah the king of Judah, and his princes, and the residue of Jerusalem, that remain in this land, and them that dwell in the land of Egypt:
KJV

This part many fail to pay attention to. These are the evil basket of figs. They are mixed in among the Judah, having crept in among Israel long ago per Old Testament history. For example, per 1 Chronicles 2:55, the Kenites which were a foreign people of the land of Canaan, became Israel's scribes in charge of keeping copies of God's Word from generation to generation. Some of these were among the false Pharisees that sought to kill Lord Jesus. Per Judges 2 & 3, God rebuked the children of Israel when they went into the lands of Canaan because they failed to complete God's command to literally wipe out seven specific nations of Canaan, because they had been doing all sorts of evil and idol worship, and He had given them 430 years to repent. Leftovers of them became bondservants among Israel, and eventually some of them crept into Israel's priesthood (see Ezra and Nehemiah).

So we cannot just point to 'unbelieving' Jews at Christ's 1st coming, because remember Paul warned us to not be conceited about their disbelief, because God spiritually blinded them so The Gospel would go to the Gentiles (Rom.11). Not all Jews at Christ's 1st coming were guilty and wanting to kill Jesus. Even Nicodemus, a Pharisee, provided spices for Jesus' burial. And some of the Pharisees believed on Lord Jesus Christ. But the evil figs, those were, and still are, about servants of the devil, the children of darkness. And it most likely will be those evil figs that will cause Israel to sign onto the Daniel 11 "league" or confirming of the covenant of Dan.9, which the coming Antichrist will make with those false Jews in Jerusalem.

Those are some really good observations and points you've made. As an addition to this I like what Paul stated to the Romans:

Romans 11:25 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.

That measure is addressed for good reason, because many Israelites such as myself have come to faith in Christ Jesus in spite of that partial blindness as opposed to a total blindness that otherwise would have kept even myself from coming to faith. However, in Christ, I am no longer Israeli or anything else, for I am Christ's possession, and that alone is what matters above all else.

What you said about the budding of the fig tree, I'd lean more in the direction of it being a very miniscule budding given that Israel currently occupies only about 2% of the entire land mass promised to them, and MANY Jews are still living abroad in other nations given that they have not yet ALL been gathered back into Israel.

This tends to point to the fact that where prophecy is not yet fulfilled in this dispensation of grace, the preparations can be implemented by the Lord in HIs own ways to see His purposes fulfilled in the future. This is where I depart from my dispensational friends who claim NO prophecy can be fulfilled. Welllll, that doesn't mean that preparatory stages can't be implemented that go toward the ultimate fulfillments given that the branches cut off that WILL one day be grafted back in, this is where our Gentile friends should be careful to not become prideful.

Yes, good posting, my friend.

MM

 

[Simona1988]

Before telling the parable, Jesus Christ was told by some of those present about a horrific event that happened to some Galileans "whose blood Pilate mixed with their sacrifices"; in other words, God allowed that those Galileans die of a violent death during the moment they were offering sacrifices to Him. Why is that?

The first thought that comes into our minds (both Jews from the time of Jesus, as well as Christians, and people in general, from the 21st century) when someone is dying a violent death is that ... he is receiving the payment for his sins. We want to make sense out of everything and explain everything and when we hear about a calamity, we arrogantly start to establish correlations between that calamity and the sins of the person who suffered it (as if we knew God's way of thinking).

But, Jesus Christ is against us manifesting these preconceptions, against us giving verdicts for someone else's death (or trials) and is inviting us to rather look at ourselves, humble ourselves and minding our own relation with God. How do we stand before Him? Are we more righteous than others? Instead of focusing on the spiritual state of the victims of the calamity, let us all look at the calamity itself as a divine warning and a calling for us all to REPENT and BEAR FRUITS WORTHY OF REPENTANCE (and Jesus Christ compares this with the fig tree).

 

[Musicmaster]

Before telling the parable, Jesus Christ was told by some of those present about a horrific event that happened to some Galileans "whose blood Pilate mixed with their sacrifices"; in other words, God allowed that those Galileans die of a violent death during the moment they were offering sacrifices to Him. Why is that?

The first thought that comes into our minds (both Jews from the time of Jesus, as well as Christians, and people in general, from the 21st century) when someone is dying a violent death is that ... he is receiving the payment for his sins. We want to make sense out of everything and explain everything and when we hear about a calamity, we arrogantly start to establish correlations between that calamity and the sins of the person who suffered it (as if we knew God's way of thinking).

But, Jesus Christ is against us manifesting these preconceptions, against us giving verdicts for someone else's death (or trials) and is inviting us to rather look at ourselves, humble ourselves and minding our own relation with God. How do we stand before Him? Are we more righteous than others? Instead of focusing on the spiritual state of the victims of the calamity, let us all look at the calamity itself as a divine warning and a calling for us all to REPENT and BEAR FRUITS WORTHY OF REPENTANCE (and Jesus Christ compares this with the fig tree).

That is some good thought on the broader context. Thank you for sharing that.

My wife and I were talking just last night about her aunt who is under Hospice care for cancer that had metastasized into several organs, including her having had brain surgery to try and remove some of it, but to no avail. This is having a crushing effect on my wife to see the process of dying in such detail, up close like that, and so she wondered about it all, and about healing.

What I told her is that the only sure thing we know is that if the Lord has something for her aunt to accomplish on this earth for him beyond this cancer and its effects, she will live on at least until the Lord is through with her here.

But, also, those people who died on account of the collapse, many things happen on this earth that has nothing to do with the Lord Himself as the cause nor as the prevention. He sees all from beginning to end, and intervenes when it suits His good pleasure and His ultimate plans and will.

I reminded her too of what I've been saying for years...ask for knowledge and wisdom from the Lord, but not that only. Ask also for His ways and His thoughts, no matter how much higher they are above ours, because nowhere in His speaking of those things did He ever warn us against asking Him for them.

Please consider post #44 and #88 in this thread. Thanks so much for taking the time to share.

Blessings to you and yours.

MM

 

[homwardbound]

I'm sure there are some out there who have loads of commentaries sitting on their home library shelves within which they can look this up and get some unacquainted scholar's opinion. Some of those commentaries can weight upwards of ten pounds, and still be ten pounds of worthless paper that fails much of the time to measure up to the standard of scriptural truth.

So upon your own personal study in the broadness of your knowledge of scripture, to what events in scripture can this possibly have alluded to dare we think outside the box of religious paradigms?

Luke 13:6-9
6 He spake also this parable; A certain [man] had a fig tree planted in his vineyard; and he came and sought fruit thereon, and found none.
7 Then said he unto the dresser of his vineyard, Behold, these three years I come seeking fruit on this fig tree, and find none: cut it down; why cumbereth it the ground?
8 And he answering said unto him, Lord, let it alone this year also, till I shall dig about it, and dung [it]:
9 And if it bear fruit, [well]: and if not, [then] after that thou shalt cut it down.

MM

I see this, presently we are in the age of grace. after the risen Christ has happened, where all sin is taken away for us, on that cross in the last shedding of blood for us, the people reconciled with no fruit. To be grateful to God for this gift. To appreciate and ask God what to do. I hear this: be available for God's lead, the same as was in Jesus.
To be given new life in the risen Christ once anyone believes Christ is risen by God Father to be given new life to be led by risen Son and Father living in them, in God's Spirit and Truth only, The Holy Spirit of God (John 4:23-24)

The parable of the fig tree had no fruit, it got condemned as evil got condemned later in the crucifixion of Son for us to be reconciled (2 Cor 5:17-20)
In order to get made new from God Father of Son. First we had to get reconciled, forgiven, having no fruit either in flesh and blood first birth nature.
Then believe God in the gift given in the risen Son as risen, God then seals us to learn new in his continued love and mercy for us, even if one continues sin, God's love through Son continues to reach out to us all, is my experience as by this amazing mercy, from God has got me to see new and leave the dung behind me as in Paul who was Saiul under Law literally killing people that believed Christ is risen, he did not believe, thought he was bearing fruit and was not as the first born flesh people, still do to this today unfortunately.
Anyways, Christ in his willing crucifixion took all sin away in his Father's sight for us to be given new life if one will choose to believe God, all in all. then will learn new, as God seals each one that believes God to see truth over error, that can take a lifetime here on earth to learn, yet by God stay saved, amazing grace
Flesh cannot, will not, please God. Only Son's could and did that on that cross for us all to believe God or not. /The only choice left
As Adam the first chose "Unbelief" to God. Adam the second (Jesus Christ) Chose Belief, is risen as proof, seen by many then, when that happened and I believe all the witnesses in this love and mercy
Fruit by God is produced as I reckon me dead, God reckons me, you and all that believe God as alive, no work needed, only God's done work of Son thank you

 

[Musicmaster]

I see this, presently we are in the age of grace. after the risen Christ has happened, where all sin is taken away for us, on that cross in the last shedding of blood for us, the people reconciled with no fruit. To be grateful to God for this gift. To appreciate and ask God what to do. I hear this: be available for God's lead, the same as was in Jesus.
To be given new life in the risen Christ once anyone believes Christ is risen by God Father to be given new life to be led by risen Son and Father living in them, in God's Spirit and Truth only, The Holy Spirit of God (John 4:23-24)

The parable of the fig tree had no fruit, it got condemned as evil got condemned later in the crucifixion of Son for us to be reconciled (2 Cor 5:17-20)
In order to get made new from God Father of Son. First we had to get reconciled, forgiven, having no fruit either in flesh and blood first birth nature.
Then believe God in the gift given in the risen Son as risen, God then seals us to learn new in his continued love and mercy for us, even if one continues sin, God's love through Son continues to reach out to us all, is my experience as by this amazing mercy, from God has got me to see new and leave the dung behind me as in Paul who was Saiul under Law literally killing people that believed Christ is risen, he did not believe, thought he was bearing fruit and was not as the first born flesh people, still do to this today unfortunately.
Anyways, Christ in his willing crucifixion took all sin away in his Father's sight for us to be given new life if one will choose to believe God, all in all. then will learn new, as God seals each one that believes God to see truth over error, that can take a lifetime here on earth to learn, yet by God stay saved, amazing grace
Flesh cannot, will not, please God. Only Son's could and did that on that cross for us all to believe God or not. /The only choice left
As Adam the first chose "Unbelief" to God. Adam the second (Jesus Christ) Chose Belief, is risen as proof, seen by many then, when that happened and I believe all the witnesses in this love and mercy
Fruit by God is produced as I reckon me dead, God reckons me, you and all that believe God as alive, no work needed, only God's done work of Son thank you

Thanks for sharing. That's some good food for thought.

If you have time, I'd appreciate your checking out my other two posts in this thread and give your thoughts. Posts #44 and #88.

The greatness of the Lord's provisions to us in spite of our failings inspired this song that I composed and performed as a dedication to Him.

https://soundcloud.com/fourwindsangels%2Fspiritual-eclipse
Blessings to you and yours.

MM