What is the Messianic Kingdom?

[Abiding]

 

[Elin]

That's what I suggest or believe that the rock in Dan. 2 is Christ's Kingdom, subjects and all, or rather Christ and His Kingdom. That's what I got from Jay E Adam anyway. It was the Christians with the help of Christ that brought down the Roman emperor, not Christ alone (not say that Christ couldn't do it alone).

I see two separate figures there.

The rock is both Christ and the kingdom of Christ which crushes Satan's kingdom.

Are the subjects of Christ's kingdom involed in crushing Satan's kingdom, or was that a work Christ alone did on the cross?

 

[eternally-gratefull]

What part of the following do you not understand?

"Finally (i.e., this is the last one, no more earthly kingdoms in the statue) there will b a fourth kingdom. . .it will crush and break all the others (the other three).

In the time of those (four) kings, the God of heaven will set up a kingdom (kingdom #5), which is the rock that strikes the statue of four kingdoms. . .It will crush all those kingdoms and bring them to an end, but it itself will endure forever."

The rock that crushed the statue of the four kingdoms was Christ, the same rock that accompanied them in the desert and from which they drank, which was Christ (1Co 1:4).

You skipped a whole verse..

[SUP]41 [/SUP]In that you saw the feet and toes, partly of potter’s clay and partly of iron, it will be a divided kingdom; but it will have in it the toughness of iron, inasmuch as you saw the iron mixed with [SUP][as][/SUP]common clay.

1. It will be a kingdom
2. It will have the strength of iron. but not be the iron itself.

both means it is a new kingdom.. why?

the 4th kingdom was iron (NOT IRON AND CLAY)
the 4th kingdom was not divided..



I am done with this thread./. you skip things, you twist things,, and you mock and hate on everyone that does not agree with you. it is not worth my time and effort to get you to see something you will never be able to see. Only God can help you.

Enjoy your belief. You see, I just think God said it will happen and it will. But if it does not? no sweat of my back. It is not going to change who will go to heaven and who will not because it is not a salvic issue. I do not believe in dual covenant theology and some in here demand I do.. I just believe God will literally fulfill his prophesies.

When God says "this will happen" it will happen. end of story. If you disagree? thats fine. You allowed to.

if your saved by the blood. we will both be in heaven laughing at the rediculous arguments this topic has caused. And while me and my brother abiding are laughing at all of this, we will be sipping the finest wine, and praising God.

 

[Abiding]

You skipped a whole verse..

[SUP]41 [/SUP]In that you saw the feet and toes, partly of potter’s clay and partly of iron, it will be a divided kingdom; but it will have in it the toughness of iron, inasmuch as you saw the iron mixed with [SUP][as][/SUP]common clay.

1. It will be a kingdom
2. It will have the strength of iron. but not be the iron itself.

both means it is a new kingdom.. why?

the 4th kingdom was iron (NOT IRON AND CLAY)
the 4th kingdom was not divided..



I am done with this thread./. you skip things, you twist things,, and you mock and hate on everyone that does not agree with you. it is not worth my time and effort to get you to see something you will never be able to see. Only God can help you.

Enjoy your belief. You see, I just think God said it will happen and it will. But if it does not? no sweat of my back. It is not going to change who will go to heaven and who will not because it is not a salvic issue. I do not believe in dual covenant theology and some in here demand I do.. I just believe God will literally fulfill his prophesies.

When God says "this will happen" it will happen. end of story. If you disagree? thats fine. You allowed to.

if your saved by the blood. we will both be in heaven laughing at the rediculous arguments this topic has caused. And while me and my brother abiding are laughing at all of this, we will be sipping the finest wine, and praising God.

EG i liked this post, all but this part. "and you mock and hate" now i dont believe that.
Although i do jest sometimes. I also do that with my cat. But the bond of unity in us surely
outweighs our agreement on eschatology. And although i see you feel mistreated(which we all get)
it really isnt true as much as you think. I Love you alot EG.

And those that dont, let them bite the wall

 

[Bookends]

I see two separate figures there.

The rock is both Christ and the kingdom of Christ which crushes Satan's kingdom.

Are the subjects of Christ's kingdom involed in crushing Satan's kingdom, or was that a work Christ alone did on the cross?

Christ defeated Satan on the Cross for sure, alone. But still Satan influences people and directs his followers in the kingdom of darkness to a degree, thus Christ does the same with His followers. For it's clear our battle is with Satan in the physical realm. Therefore it is Christ and His kingdom battling Satan and his kingdom for the souls of men. Have you been enlisted in God's army? And why?

For our struggle is not against flesh and blood, but against the rulers, against the powers, against the world forces of this darkness, against the spiritual forces of wickedness in the heavenly places. (Eph. 2:6)

The battle rages on even-though Christ has won the War..

Just my opinion I guess.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

EG i liked this post, all but this part. "and you mock and hate" now i dont believe that.
Although i do jest sometimes. I also do that with my cat. But the bond of unity in us surely
outweighs our agreement on eschatology. And although i see you feel mistreated(which we all get)
it really isnt true as much as you think. I Love you alot EG.

And those that dont, let them bite the wall

Oh bud. that was not directed at you. I hope you did not think so. But I have been mocked, hated,. and other things I would not like to say in here by some people..

I just mentioned sipping fine wine with you and laughing at this in eternity because I think we will. And bookends will be with us!

 

[Elin]

You skipped a whole verse..

[SUP]41 [/SUP]In that you saw the feet and toes, partly of potter’s clay and partly of iron, it will be a divided kingdom; but it will have in it the toughness of iron, inasmuch as you saw the iron mixed with [SUP][as][/SUP]common clay.

1. It will be a kingdom
2. It will have the strength of iron. but not be the iron itself.

both means it is a new kingdom.. why?

the 4th kingdom was iron (NOT IRON AND CLAY)
the 4th kingdom was not divided..

"Houston, we still have a problem."

What part of the following do you not understand?

Da 2:40-43 - "Finally, there will be a fourth kingdom (not plural). . .strong as iron. . . it will crush and break all the others (previous three). . .it will be a divided kingdom. . .the people will be a mixture who will not remain united, any more than iron mixes with clay."

The iron and clay are figurative of a divided kingdom in terms of its citizens, not in terms of two different times of existence.

That mixture of peoples resulted in the 10 kingdoms which came out of the Roman empire.

The text clearly shows that the statue was a figure of four kingdoms.

Da 2:44 - "In the time of those kings (of vv. 39-40), the God of heaven will set up a kingdom that will never be destroyed nor will it be left to another people. It will crush all those kingdoms and bring them to an end, but it itself will endure forever.
This is the meaning of the vision of the rock cut out of a mountain but not by human hands--a rock that broke the iron, the bronze, the clay, the silver and the gold to pieces."

Note that:

1) the fifth kingdom was set up during the Roman empire which crushed all the other kingdoms,

2) the fifth kingdom was set up by God at the first coming of Christ during the Roman empire,

3) the fifth kingdom set up by God which followed the Roman empire, crushed both the iron and the clay because they were one kingdom, the Roman empire of Christ's day.

The text clearly shows that the fifth kingdom of Da 2:44 was set up by God during the Roman empire, at the first coming of Christ.

It endures forever, so there is no future temporal Messianic kingdom.

So what part of Da 2:40-44 here do you not understand?

 

[Abiding]

Oh bud. that was not directed at you. I hope you did not think so. But I have been mocked, hated,. and other things I would not like to say in here by some people..

I just mentioned sipping fine wine with you and laughing at this in eternity because I think we will. And bookends will be with us!

I figure bookends to be a guzzler, but ok, we can teach him how to sip
I didnt think it was aimed at me, but wanted u to know i do mock.
But not in any disrespect or guile or bitterness or that stuff.
And ive watched the thread and i seen some near hate, but only from
one person. Even in that, its not important.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

"Houston, we still have a problem."

What part of the following do you not understand?

Da 2:40-43 - "Finally, there will be a fourth kingdom (not plural). . .strong as iron. . . it will crush and break all the others (previous three). . .it will be a divided kingdom. . .the people will be a mixture who will not remain united, any more than iron mixes with clay."

The iron and clay are figurative of a divided kingdom in terms of its citizens, not in terms of two different times of existence.

That mixture of peoples resulted in the 10 kingdoms which came out of the Roman empire.

The text clearly shows that the statue was a figure of four kingdoms.

Da 2:44 - "In the time of those kings (of vv. 39-40), the God of heaven will set up a kingdom that will never be destroyed nor will it be left to another people. It will crush all those kingdoms and bring them to an end, but it itself will endure forever. This is the meaning of the vision of the rock cut out of a mountain but not by human hands--a rock that broke the iron, the bronze, the clay, the silver and the gold to pieces."

Note that:

1) the fifth kingdom was set up during the Roman empire which crushed all the other kingdoms,

2) the fifth kingdom was set up by God at the first coming of Christ during the Roman empire,

3) the fifth kingdom set up by God which followed the Roman empire, crushed both the iron and the clay because they were one kingdom, the Roman empire of Christ's day.

The text clearly shows that the fifth kingdom of Da 2:44 was set up by God during the Roman empire, at the first coming of Christ.

It endures forever, so there is no future temporal Messianic kingdom.

What part of Da 2:40-44 here do you not understand?

THE PROBLEM IS YOU ARE SKIPPING A WHOLE section, AND KEEP IGNORING IT.

Rome; 4th kingdom.

1. It will be strong
2. IT will Crushes and shatters the other kingdoms like iron curshes and shatters things..
3. As with the first three kingdoms. Unified..

The next kingdom

1. IT will be Brittle
2. IT will have strength like iron, but yet parts of it will be brittle
3. Unlike a kingdom which crushes all things, it will combine with the seeds of men. but these seeds will not be untied,, thus it will not adhere (like the iron does not adhere to clay)

and you want me to believe this is ONE kingdom?

That is why I no longer wish to discuss this.. you refuse to admit truths, you skip parts of the verses.. and you demand I listen to you.. and then you mock by saying we have a problem. If you believe this. so be it

 

[Abiding]

I think "Kingdom" here may be misunderstood.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

I figure bookends to be a guzzler, but ok, we can teach him how to sip
I didnt think it was aimed at me, but wanted u to know i do mock.
But not in any disrespect or guile or bitterness or that stuff.
And ive watched the thread and i seen some near hate, but only from
one person. Even in that, its not important.

Ah, but we will be in heaven, with the finest wine ever,, everyone will sip to enjoy its pleasure..(I hate wine actually, but know I will love this wine)

And I know you joke when you mock.. I never have been offended by anything you have said.

although you do scare me sometimes

 

[eternally-gratefull]

I think "Kingdom" here may be misunderstood.

How would you say this is happening?

 

[Elin]

Christ defeated Satan on the Cross for sure, alone. But still Satan influences people and directs his followers in the kingdom of darkness to a degree, thus Christ does the same with His followers. For it's clear our battle is with Satan in the physical realm. Therefore it is Christ and His kingdom battling Satan and his kingdom for the souls of men. Have you been enlisted in God's army? And why?

For our struggle is not against flesh and blood, but against the rulers, against the powers, against the world forces of this darkness, against the spiritual forces of wickedness in the heavenly places. (Eph. 2:6)

The battle rages on even-though Christ has won the War.

Just my opinion I guess.

Yes, the battle has been won (Eph 1:22), we are just in the mop-up campaign (Heb 10:13).

 

[Abiding]

What i was thinking is that Daniel to me is always talking about the Jewish nation and history.
To me that ended.

I was thinking you may be looking at world history and all the nations and conglomerations as kingdoms.
Which right or wrong i dont. I spose i look at it as 2 kingdom now satans or Christs.
And right now Christs kingdom is eternal. Iron and clay cannot mingle. Will never hold together. Wont happen.
I know a storm will happen but i dont expect a one world government. Satan may try but thats all hes ever done.

 

[Elin]

"Houston, we still have a problem."

What part of the following do you not understand?

Da 2:40-43 - "Finally, there will be a fourth kingdom (not plural). . .strong as iron. . . it will crush and break all the others (previous three). . .it will be a divided kingdom. . .the people will be a mixture who will not remain united, any more than iron mixes with clay."

The iron and clay are figurative of a divided kingdom in terms of its citizens, not in terms of two different times of existence.

That mixture of peoples resulted in the 10 kingdoms which came out of the Roman empire.

The text clearly shows that the statue was a figure of four kingdoms.

Da 2:44 - "In the time of those kings (of vv. 39-40), the God of heaven will set up a kingdom that will never be destroyed nor will it be left to another people. It will crush all those kingdoms and bring them to an end, but it itself will endure forever.
This is the meaning of the vision of the rock cut out of a mountain but not by human hands--a rock that broke the iron, the bronze, the clay, the silver and the gold to pieces."

Note that:

1) the fifth kingdom was set up during the Roman empire which crushed all the other kingdoms,

2) the fifth kingdom was set up by God at the first coming of Christ during the Roman empire,

3) the fifth kingdom set up by God which followed the Roman empire, crushed both the iron and the clay because they were one kingdom, the Roman empire of Christ's day.

The text clearly shows that the fifth kingdom of Da 2:44 was set up by God during the Roman empire, at the first coming of Christ.

It endures forever, so there is no future temporal Messianic kingdom.

So what part of Da 2:40-44 here do you not understand?

the 4th kingdom was iron (NOT IRON AND CLAY)
the 4th kingdom was not divided.."


THE PROBLEM IS YOU ARE SKIPPING A WHOLE section, AND KEEP IGNORING IT.

Rome; 4th kingdom.

1. It will be strong
2. IT will Crushes and shatters the other kingdoms like iron curshes and shatters things..
3. As with the first three kingdoms. Unified..

The next kingdom

1. IT will be Brittle
2. IT will have strength like iron, but yet parts of it will be brittle
3. Unlike a kingdom which crushes all things, it will combine with the seeds of men. but these seeds will not be untied,, thus it will not adhere (like the iron does not adhere to clay)

and you want me to believe this is ONE kingdom?

I suggest you believe Daniel's interpretation above, instead of your private interpretation

of vv. 41-42, which contradicts Daniel's interpretation of the iron and clay being destroyed

by the fifth kingdom, set up by God at the first coming of Christ during the Roman empire.

 

[Abiding]

Elin alot of theologians refer to the clay as Christians.
For many reasons.
Any thoughts on that?

 

[eternally-gratefull]

What i was thinking is that Daniel to me is always talking about the Jewish nation and history.
To me that ended.

I was thinking you may be looking at world history and all the nations and conglomerations as kingdoms.
Which right or wrong i dont. I spose i look at it as 2 kingdom now satans or Christs.
And right now Christs kingdom is eternal. Iron and clay cannot mingle. Will never hold together. Wont happen.
I know a storm will happen but i dont expect a one world government. Satan may try but thats all hes ever done.

Ah but we look at it the same, you just may not see it. (as far as Isreal being the center)

Jewish nation ended during the 4th empire (rome) when it was in full power.

Yet another kingdom is mentioned, even though there have been many kingdoms inbetween the time rome fell and today. even though that 5th kingdom has not been seen. why is this?

Isreal must be going to be a part of human history again, At that time, the last kingdom is in power.. of course, Christ destroys that kingdom at his return.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

I suggest you believe Daniel's interpretation above, instead of your private interpretation

of vv. 41-42, which contradicts Daniel's interpretation of the iron and clay being destroyed

by the fifth kingdom, set up by God at the first coming of Christ during the Roman empire.

I suggest you look at facts instead of putting your own private interpretation on things.

the empire at christ time was the empire which crushed all things it touched, It was strong, as to no one could appose it.

it was not the split or fractured kingdom which came after,, Christ said he would destroy that kingdom. not rome. In Fact rome prety much held power over a perverted form of the church for hundreds of years.. I would not think Christ destroyed that kingdom, it destroyed itself..

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Elin alot of theologians refer to the clay as Christians.
For many reasons.
Any thoughts on that?

They would have God destroying Christians..

 

[Abiding]

Ah but we look at it the same, you just may not see it. (as far as Isreal being the center)

Jewish nation ended during the 4th empire (rome) when it was in full power.

Yet another kingdom is mentioned, even though there have been many kingdoms inbetween the time rome fell and today. even though that 5th kingdom has not been seen. why is this?

Isreal must be going to be a part of human history again, At that time, the last kingdom is in power.. of course, Christ destroys that kingdom at his return.

Well no i dont see it, if i did tho the kingdom would be headed in Jerusalem where the savour was crucified
And would easily run the world since it already owns it on paper and gold and resources and bribery and
leverage on all nation but maybe three which may get nuked soon

Then Jesus will smash them when He returns