What Laws are still valid to christians

[eternally-gratefull]

Again how true. In your opinion, and anyone else who cares to answer, how do you propose an explanation?

romans 3 always helps.

Everyone knows they are a sinner, they do not have to be told they are a sinner (this comes off as judgmental) best way to do it is with your life. God says to be a light into a dark world. This draws people to God. and they come ask you. But if your witnessing, Just witness with your life and show the love of God. This will rarely fail.

To teach them law is to teach judgment, And they can not comprehend this until they first get saved, It is putting on them the yoke that as Peter said, they jews could not handle. and quite frankly, we can not either.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

True, and similarly, when people start telling the non-believers or young believers that they can't or shouldn't follow aspects of the Law, we are putting them at risk of faith without works, which is no faith at all. That's why I've tried to clarify the following of the Law through Spirit.

I'm not saying you're doing this, but some do.

lol. NO ONE is going to say this.

I do not know where people get this thinking. No one is going to go to someone and say Hey God came to save you, He loves you. And all you have to do is recieve him, then it does not matter how you live, you will go to heaven

You get them saved first. then they have the capacity to start learning how to live a Godly life through the HS and discipleship and study of Gods word.

They do not need you or me go preaching law to them and judging them. the HS already did this..

 

[eternally-gratefull]

So then explain how the OT writers fit into that verse that Rose quoted.

Easy, The OT people were spoken of by Jesus himself. He said John was greater than them, nothing changed just because Christ died, that is adding to the word of God.

 

[Welshman]

Read from gen1 the first chapter earth the planet was here already? It was null and void waste less or desolate ? But it was here nonetheless ? He renewed the face of the earth he changed its environment to be suitable for us? ( the angels that were with satan desolated the earth after leaving it desolate The Lord renewed the earth) darkness to light, sea and land , atmosphere, this is wat business the father and son are in? The creating business? All laws ever made or yet to be made are made by the father and the son ? I and the father are one ?

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Would you purpose for an explanation that Jesus fulfilled certain aspects of the Law and through Him we do not need to sacrifice for forgiveness, etc..., but that we, through Love, are to fulfill those things which define God's essence? That is, we are to love, seeing that love does fulfill those things which do define God's essence which were spoken in words?

I would propose that all aspects of the law we are to follow are written in the NT. The ones which are done away with are either not mentioned, Or are specifically mentioned they no longer apply.

So instead of saying you are following law. Say you are following Christ. it would be saying the same thing, and is not judgmental to anyone, And will prevent one from becoming self righteous. as most law people are.

 

[just-me]

Regards the comment?, JESUS, did not do all the law, I've never seen such a misapplication of scripture like that in my whole life, Jesus is the law? You say he wasn't a farmer a judge a member of the sahendrin, and so on, Jesus gave all the laws to these groups, he wrote them before man was even present on the earth, the laws of physics,medicine,cosmology,and every other ology there may be? Jesus is the writer of all law levitical mosaic, faith, you cnt divide the word of god to suit your interpretation no matter how sure you are that your right? And by no way are you right in saying Jesus did not do all the law, Jesus is not subject to time as man is, regarding heaven and earth shall pass away before one iota of the law is complete, is a figurative piece of language? , the earth shall never pass away never, therefore Jesus was saying the law will be for eternity, forever and ever? In fact the earth is to be universal headquarters for the both The Lord Jesus and the father after Jesus 1000 yrs of rebuilding what shortly is to fall revelation ch 21 all things made new ? Now I saw a new heaven and new earth ? Not a new planet no? Bt a renewing of the face of the earth? God doesn't destroy his creation sister he renews ?

I really like that brother, for it is true. If Jesus was the creator according to Colossians chapter 1, then he also is the giver of the Mosaic law. One cannot separate Jesus from God let alone Jesus from Himself.

 

[homwardbound]

yes it is. Maybe one day their eyes will open.. As long as I do not get too angry and go nuts (which if I do. I pray my brothers or sisters will confront me)

You show to me you are on the verge from time to time
Ex:

Originally Posted by eternally-gratefull wow. And again the one who thinks he is so smart has to come and prove he does not understand what anyone thinks.
Is the above not an attack from flesh attitude?
don';t you ever get tired of that John??

Who said it cancelled?

What it did, was prove the mere command, do not commit adultry, was not in and of iutself good enough to show us all possible sins of how one commits adultry.

According to the law. i could never physically sleep with another woman, yet every time I see her fantasize about having sex with her, yet I would not (according to the law) be a sinner, because i did not do it.




again, Until you start actually listen to what people are saying, I recommend you stop commenting. You continue to show you have no understanding of what people are saying and continue to say they believe something THEY DO NOT BELIEVE OR TEACH!
Is not that above an attack, you asked, is it is now shown, praying you see it

I wrote in red to point out where it shows your flesh in the way, and raised the size

 

[just-me]

Read from gen1 the first chapter earth the planet was here already? It was null and void waste less or desolate ? But it was here nonetheless ? He renewed the face of the earth he changed its environment to be suitable for us? ( the angels that were with satan desolated the earth after leaving it desolate The Lord renewed the earth) darkness to light, sea and land , atmosphere, this is wat business the father and son are in? The creating business? All laws ever made or yet to be made are made by the father and the son ? I and the father are one ?

I kinda thought that was the case, but I haven't seen any proof of this statement you made. I'd like to see if you had scripture for me to look at concerning "the angels that were with satan desolated the earth after leaving it desolate The Lord renewed the earth." Thank in advance

 

[Welshman]

Am I the only person who is willing to challenge to post on page 133 that Jesus did not do all the law? If Jesus did not do all the law seeing as he was under it in the flesh in obedience to the father, if Jesus did not do all the law required then Jesus death was pointless , needless, the price he paid was futile , we are still under judgement unto death and god is a masochistic murderer for putting his son into the hands of lawless men to kill and murder him?, gods only son? This is diabolical nonsense? All in defense of the primacy of the law over faith? Never in my life and I'm no teacher bt this is simply madness?

 

[homwardbound]

Ah, then you do support the Ten Commandments? All of them are in force? Yes or No? Pretty easy questions.

Yes they are for the Law breakers to show their need for the Savior, and then the Love of God is fulfilled in the new born again believer of God by the operation of God through the resurrected Christ, the gift from God

 

[just-me]

So does Galatians 3:19 have nothing to do with law given to Moses? If that were the case, then the “Seed” would not have been involved.
Let’s see what Paul was really saying.

Galatians 3:17-25 (KJV)
[SUP]17 [/SUP]And this I say, that the covenant, that was confirmed before of God in Christ, the law, which was four hundred and thirty years after, cannot disannul, that it should make the promise of none effect.
[SUP]18 [/SUP]For if the inheritance be of the law, it is no more of promise: but God gave it to Abraham by promise.
[SUP]19 [/SUP]Wherefore then serveth the law? It was added because of transgressions, till the seed should come to whom the promise was made; and it was ordained by angels in the hand of a mediator.
[SUP]20 [/SUP]Now a mediator is not a mediator of one, but God is one.
[SUP]21 [/SUP]Is the law then against the promises of God? God forbid: for if there had been a law given which could have given life, verily righteousness should have been by the law.
[SUP]22 [/SUP]But the scripture hath concluded all under sin, that the promise by faith of Jesus Christ might be given to them that believe.
[SUP]23 [/SUP]But before faith came, we were kept under the law, shut up unto the faith which should afterwards be revealed.
[SUP]24 [/SUP]Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.
[SUP]25 [/SUP]But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster.

The covenant in verse 17 was the legality of the Mosaic Law confirmed previously of God in Christ does NOT do away with the promise, as some would want us to think.
The inheritance in verse 18 is by promise, not by legality.
The transgressions in verse 19 are exposed by legality, until the fulfillment through Christ.
The mediator in verse 20 does not mediate something that is in agreement with itself.
The promises in verse 21 are plural, and the law is not at odds with those promises, because there would be no reason for promises unto righteousness of transgressions were done away with by the law. Obviously, the law can’t do that.
The sin in verse 22 has been made known by the law (compare with verse 19) so we can see the reason for these promises.
The law and faith in verse 23 are working with each other. Paul says; Romans 7:8b For without the law sin was dead. And even more in Romans 5:13b but sin is not imputed when there is no law.
So I ask, what would be the purpose of a promise if there weren’t a reason for it?
The schoolmaster in verse 24 is our escort to Christ.
The faith in verse 25 is the maturity that is given through the Word that issues us the understanding by the Comforter. (The Holy Spirit)

Faith can be, and should increased in our lives according to 2 Corinthians 10:15. Paul even confesses that he didn’t have it all in 1 Corinthians 13:2. Therefore, there are many things in our lives where we still need an escort to Christ. Paul is fed up with the self-righteous attitude that says we are perfect without understanding, and even going so far as to purposefully deny it. Paul reveals this to us when he says;
1 Corinthians 15:31 (KJV)
[SUP]31 [/SUP]I protest by your rejoicing which I have in Christ Jesus our Lord, I die daily.

2 Corinthians 3:6 (KJV)
[SUP]6 [/SUP]Who also hath made us able ministers of the new testament; not of the letter, but of the spirit: for the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life.
Take advantage of the letter, and appreciate the promises.

How do we lead others to Christ if we don’t follow this sequence of events listed by Paul? By neglecting this format, do we contributing to the “falling away” leading to false conversions?

 

[cfultz3]

romans 3 always helps.

Everyone knows they are a sinner, they do not have to be told they are a sinner (this comes off as judgmental) best way to do it is with your life. God says to be a light into a dark world. This draws people to God. and they come ask you. But if your witnessing, Just witness with your life and show the love of God. This will rarely fail.

To teach them law is to teach judgment, And they can not comprehend this until they first get saved, It is putting on them the yoke that as Peter said, they jews could not handle. and quite frankly, we can not either.

I was going to ask you when does the Law come into play (living a Godly life), but you answered in the post just after the one you replied to:

EG:
You get them saved first. then they have the capacity to start learning how to live a Godly life through the HS and discipleship and study of Gods word.

They do not need you or me go preaching law to them and judging them. the HS already did this..

 

[eternally-gratefull]

You show to me you are on the verge from time to time
Ex:


I wrote in red to point out where it shows your flesh in the way, and raised the size

I honestly have no understanding of what you mean. Some of that stuff I did not even say that I know of.

 

[Welshman]

Read Enoch chapter 7 for a guide gen 6 v 1-5 for a start the earth was the abode of angels long before man was placed here bt as they rebelled and fallen angels mingled with flesh later on bt I'm not gna argue with you friend I've taken careful notes of many your replies and in my opinion you are just too set in mind to be able to open up to anything other than what you hold? Hey brother its your choice I respect it I'm sure u mean well in your aims and goals bt for me I'm afraid I think your way off mark you will not relent a single point in over 100 pages and I most certainly dnt want to be involved in another 100 job 38 has some hidden treasures if the Holy Spirit should choose to reveal to you my friend

 

[KohenMatt]

Yes you have, But when you state your following law. Your required to do all of it, or you are not following law. That is just the basic fact.

Who says you're required to do it and where? And if there is such a place, for what purpose are you required to do it all?

True, but then how do we know which command to follow. and which are no longer valid? And who choses which to follow (see my point)

Because of the Holy Spirit's guiding. Just as you don't read every single command in the NT and say that you have to do all of them right now, the Spirit lays on your heart which ones to follow and when and how to follow them. Obviously, the Spirit says you don't need to physically follow sacrifices because that's what Jesus did.

Really? I have not see this. Maybe your misunderstanding them? Do you really think people say that not commiting adultry is a bad thing and we should not do it?

Yes, really. I've seen it here several times. It's not the big ones like adultery that are the ones I'm talking about. You're right, every one will agree you shouldn't do it. But Sabbath? Kosher? Circumcision (as you mentioned)? I've seen several times people saying you can't do those things, and if you do, you're negating Jesus' sacrifice.

Well again, Circumcision is a sticky subject. I have witnessed on done on a 20 y/o, it is not a prety site. They had a jump cart standing by, because alot of guys who have it done go into cardiac arrest because of the pain (you can not numb the area, it could cut off blood flow)

As an aside, there are several studies out there that indicate the 8th day of a child's life is medically better for circumcision because of bodily development. I'm not a medical guy, so I can't go into much detail there. But I digress.

Sorry, But I can not see the spirit of God leading anyone to do something which is not commanded to be done.. And all this does is alienate us from others, something we are warned against doing.

I can see someone who thinks they are to follow law being led by the law to do it. But I can not see the spirit of God leading one to do it. No reason spiritually or to advance the kingdom of God to do it.

And I would say that the Law is something God told His people to do. And as I've said before, we're not "commanded" to do for any alterior motives, but we are told to do those things.

Its easy, It is not as hard as your making it out to be. How do we follow the spirit? Be others focused. Be anti-self (humble) and serve and love others. Anything we do in this aspect is following God. Anything we do to puff up self (like sin, or following a bunch of rules and regulations) is sin, and not following the spirit.

It's not hard for some, but it can be very hard for others to discern how to live on a daily basis with that Spirit. How to listen to the Holy Spirit, how to know it actually is the Spirit talking to you. That's why Jesus spent so much time telling His followers how to follow the Spirit, by giving the Parables, by going into detail about certain things.

 

[homwardbound]

In answer to whose words are in force either Paul's or Moses? The answer is neither are in force the lords words are in force no ifs no buts no maybee s no nothing ? Jesus is the god of the Old Testament as well as The Lord of the new , it was Jesus talking to Adam not the father? You may well not accept that bt the father has never left his habitation of the highest heaven .. I and the father are one? Bt Jesus divested himself of the heavenly glory for a time ? Then ascended bk to sit at the right hand seat with the father ? No one has ever seen the father except Jesus no one? For he lives in unapproachable light ?

For:
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• John 4:23 But the hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth: for the Father seeketh such to worship him.
  John 4:24 God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.
  

 

[cfultz3]

I would propose that all aspects of the law we are to follow are written in the NT. The ones which are done away with are either not mentioned, Or are specifically mentioned they no longer apply.

So instead of saying you are following law. Say you are following Christ. it would be saying the same thing, and is not judgmental to anyone, And will prevent one from becoming self righteous. as most law people are.

I agree with you that any remaining part of the Law which was not fulfilled for us through Jesus' blood, is to be found under the New Covenant. Namely, Love. And this Love which is now our Law to follow, does not at all void God's Law we know under the Old Covenant. Since God has never changed, then God's Law is: to love.

I really like what you said about one not saying they are following Law, seeing that the one who says this, also must say, "don't offend God, you will go to Hell". And this condemnation must be attached, seeing that the Law has death attached as its verdict.

On the other hand, if we say that we follow Christ, we are still following the One who gave the Law. But mercy, unlike the the Law which mandated death to all who broke it, is shown to the one who breaks a law and the fear of condemnation is not a "up in your face" reality.

 

[Welshman]

When Almighty God, to beautify the nature of the world, willed that that earth should be visited by angels, when they were sent down they despised His laws. Such was the beauty of women, that it turned them aside; so that, being contaminated, they could not return to heaven. Rebels from God, they uttered words against Him. Then the Highest uttered His judgment against them; and from their seed giants are said to have been born. By them arts were made known in the earth, and they taught the dyeing of wool, and everything which is done; and to them, when they died, men erected images. But the Almighty, because they were of an evil seed, did not approve that, when dead, they should be brought back from death. Whence wandering they now subvert many bodies, and it is such as these especially that ye this day worship and pray to as gods. (p. 435, vol. 4, The Ante-Nicene Fathers)

 

[eternally-gratefull]

I agree with you that any remaining part of the Law which was not fulfilled for us through Jesus' blood, is to be found under the New Covenant. Namely, Love. And this Love which is now our Law to follow, does not at all void God's Law we know under the Old Covenant. Since God has never changed, then God's Law is: to love.

I really like what you said about one not saying they are following Law, seeing that the one who says this, also must say, "don't offend God, you will go to Hell". And this condemnation must be attached, seeing that the Law has death attached as its verdict.

On the other hand, if we say that we follow Christ, we are still following the One who gave the Law. But mercy, unlike the the Law which mandated death to all who broke it, is shown to the one who breaks a law and the fear of condemnation is not a "up in your face" reality.

Thats the spirit of the father, who removed the spirit of fear that the law carries with it!

 

[WomanLovesTX]

Am I the only person who is willing to challenge to post on page 133 that Jesus did not do all the law? If Jesus did not do all the law seeing as he was under it in the flesh in obedience to the father, if Jesus did not do all the law required then Jesus death was pointless , needless, the price he paid was futile , we are still under judgement unto death and god is a masochistic murderer for putting his son into the hands of lawless men to kill and murder him?, gods only son? This is diabolical nonsense? All in defense of the primacy of the law over faith? Never in my life and I'm no teacher bt this is simply madness?

No. It is simply logic. Here is a commandment given to women. Lev 12:2 Speak unto the children of Israel, saying, If a woman have conceived seed, and born a man child: then she shall be unclean seven days; according to the days of the separation for her infirmity shall she be unclean.

Obviously, Jesus had two things that would keep this commandment from applying to Him. He was not a woman delivering a child, and He never had a wife to apply this commandment to.

So what benefit is the commandment today? How is it applicable?

And this commandment is for the settlement of a matter brought to the Judges. Exo 22:9 For all manner of trespass, whether it be for ox, for ass, for sheep, for raiment, or for any manner of lost thing, which another challengeth to be his, the cause of both parties shall come before the judges; and whom the judges shall condemn, he shall pay double unto his neighbour.

The Judges have the power to condemn and inact repayment. How does this apply to Jesus? Yes, He is the author of the Word. However he is not an appointed judge yet. Jesus said we are to forgive those who trespass against us and our Heavenly Father will also forgive us of our trespasses. Do you see how this commandment for both parties to go before the judge is no longer valid if we accept and practice forgiveness? Material things are not everything, but the heart, which is deceitful by nature and is evil, needs the grace of God unto salvation through the shed blood of Jesus Christ on our behalf. So this one commandment is essentially void, but does that automatically apply to all of the OT commandments and laws? No, it doesn't. Through the guidance of the Holy Spirit, we are each individually responsible for what God commands/demands of us. That is why reading regularly the Word will help guide and convict and change how we live our life for Christ. There is no one box to fit all things commanded into.

I had to look up the word "diabolical". It means

• Of, concerning, or characteristic of the devil; satanic.
• Appropriate to a devil, especially in degree of wickedness or cruelty.

Yes, I am defending the law. There are hundreds of scriptures that cannot be ignored stating the law is good, holy, and profitable for doctrine. Sin is the transgression of law. To be lawless is not a good thing. Faith and commandments/laws can and do go hand in hand and they do in a believer who is growing in understanding of the Word.