What REALLY is Faith That Scripture Upholds?

[Nedsk]

Well, it sounds like you are calling John a liar, see 1 John 1:8. But what Paul says in Romans 7 is fully compatible with my observations. We are forgiven by God, yet we continue to struggle with sin until we are ultimately perfected by God's actions, not our own.

But then one needs to know both the English language and the scriptures to see these points rather than to misinterpret and suggest that someone is making Paul out to be a liar

Who are you replying to?

 

[Watchman22]

Well, it sounds like you are calling John a liar, see 1 John 1:8. But what Paul says in Romans 7 is fully compatible with my observations. We are forgiven by God, yet we continue to struggle with sin until we are ultimately perfected by God's actions, not our own.

But then one needs to know both the English language and the scriptures to see these points rather than to misinterpret and suggest that someone is making Paul out to be a liar

Paul says it's nolonger Him that does what he does not want to do (sinning) , but sin dwelling in Him doing it.

Do you agree with that?

 

[Watchman22]

Well, it sounds like you are calling John a liar, see 1 John 1:8. But what Paul says in Romans 7 is fully compatible with my observations. We are forgiven by God, yet we continue to struggle with sin until we are ultimately perfected by God's actions, not our own.

But then one needs to know both the English language and the scriptures to see these points rather than to misinterpret and suggest that someone is making Paul out to be a liar

We are still teathered to the sinful nature as long as we're in the physical state. But when we sin , ( that also includes our thoughts) it's not us doing it, but sin still dwelling in us doing it.

The real question is are we really in that state of being in the first place.

 

[Nedsk]

We are still teathered to the sinful nature as long as we're in the physical state. But when we sin , ( that also includes our thoughts) it's not us doing it, but sin still dwelling in us doing it.

The real question is are we really in that state of being in the first place.

So it's not us sinning but rather the sin within us that is sinning?

 

[Watchman22]

So it's not us sinning but rather the sin within us that is sinning?

It's the same kind of paradoxical truth as Jesus being 100% human being and 100% God at all times all the time.

The answer to your question is yes. If we are in Christ by a continually surrendered life, we are in the state of sanctification . That state of sanctification described by Paul says it's not us doing it (sinning) but sin dwelling in us doing it.

We can't understand this just like we can't understand how Jesus could be human and God at the same time. It doesn't fit into our frame of reference. Only by having the Holy Spirit can we understand this.

 

[Watchman22]

So it's not us sinning but rather the sin within us that is sinning?

Something interesting to watch out for Nedsk.
If you are listening to a preacher teaching in Romans, watch what happens when they get to 7:14-24. 9 times out of 10 they leap frog right over it.
If they haven't laid the groundwork for the paradoxical truths of God, they can't even talk about it.

 

[Nedsk]

It's the same kind of paradoxical truth as Jesus being 100% human being and 100% God at all times all the time.

The answer to your question is yes. If we are in Christ by a continually surrendered life, we are in the state of sanctification . That state of sanctification described by Paul says it's not us doing it (sinning) but sin dwelling in us doing it.

We can't understand this just like we can't understand how Jesus could be human and God at the same time. It doesn't fit into our frame of reference. Only by having the Holy Spirit can we understand this.

I dont see any connection whatsoever between what you're saying and the hypostatic union.

 

[Nedsk]

Something interesting to watch out for Nedsk.
If you are listening to a preacher teaching in Romans, watch what happens when they get to 7:14-24. 9 times out of 10 they leap frog right over it.
If they haven't laid the groundwork for the paradoxical truths of God, they can't even talk about it.

So you're suggesting that like Jesus who is both perfectly divine and perfectly human we are imperfectly divine and imperfectly human? Or are we perfectly human?

 

[Watchman22]

So you're suggesting that like Jesus who is both perfectly divine and perfectly human we are imperfectly divine and imperfectly human? Or are we perfectly human?

No, you took a left hand turn at some point.

 

[Watchman22]

So you're suggesting that like Jesus who is both perfectly divine and perfectly human we are imperfectly divine and imperfectly human? Or are we perfectly human?

Being in the state of sanctification is being in a state of two different things. It affects more than just our sinful natures. Sanctification means to be separated from.
You need to do some research on the paradoxical truths of God.

 

[Nedsk]

No, you took a left hand turn at some point.

Then there is no connection

 

[Nedsk]

Being in the state of sanctification is being in a state of two different things. It affects more than just our sinful natures. Sanctification means to be separated from.
You need to do some research on the paradoxical truths of God.

No I don't. Sin is an action of the will. If Adam and Eve ate the apple because it was the sin in them but not them, then why were they expelled from the garden? Please don't tell me it was a different covenant or some other type of explanation.

 

[Watchman22]

No I don't. Sin is an action of the will. If Adam and Eve ate the apple because it was the sin in them but not them, then why were they expelled from the garden? Please don't tell me it was a different covenant or some other type of explanation.

Then good luck to you.

 

[Nedsk]

Then good luck to you.

Dont need it. You didn't answer the question. If it's the sin in me that sins but not me and that can't affect my salvation then what I do or dont do has no bearing on anything since it's not me sinning but the sin within me that sins.

 

[Watchman22]

No I don't. Sin is an action of the will. If Adam and Eve ate the apple because it was the sin in them but not them, then why were they expelled from the garden? Please don't tell me it was a different covenant or some other type of explanation.

This will be my departing reply to you Nedsk.

In 1987, I was a horrible addict. I eventually came to point where I would have done anything to get away from the insanity.

I went to a meeting and stood up and cried out for help. A guy approached me and said I have 10 years of sobriety, and I have a sponsor who has 20 years of sobriety, and he has a sponsor that has 35 years of sobriety, and his sponsor has 40 years of sobriety. And he told me he was going to give me all that 100 years of experience if I would just choose to go with him and listen. I did make that decision, and am alive because of that.

You have been given that same choice here in CC. Not just the decades of teaching I'm sharing with you, but the experience of others also. Your making a huge mistake not listening to it.

I hope God continues to keep calling you .

 

[Nedsk]

This will be my departing reply to you Nedsk.

In 1987, I was a horrible addict. I eventually came to point where I would have done anything to get away from the insanity.

I went to a meeting and stood up and cried out for help. A guy approached me and said I have 10 years of sobriety, and I have a sponsor who has 20 years of sobriety, and he has a sponsor that has 35 years of sobriety, and his sponsor has 40 years of sobriety. And he told me he was going to give me all that 100 years of experience if I would just choose to go with him and listen. I did make that decision, and am alive because of that.

You have been given that same choice here in CC. Not just the decades of teaching I'm sharing with you, but the experience of others also. Your making a huge mistake not listening to it.

I hope God continues to keep calling you .

You have no idea who I am or where I've come from or how I ended being who I am now versus who I was. I won't be preached at. If people want to talk to me they will respect my opinions as much as I try to respect theirs. If they can't do that then it's best they move on. I have never tolerated people very well who can't conceive of the notion that they MIGHT be wrong and then proceed to suggest I don't "understand". It's unsightly and I don't put up with it very well. Thats the work that continues in me though. Peace to you friend. Remember I'm not the one walking away.

 

[Watchman22]

You have no idea who I am or where I've come from or how I ended being who I am now versus who I was. I won't be preached at. If people want to talk to me they will respect my opinions as much as I try to respect theirs. If they can't do that then it's best they move on. I have never tolerated people very well who can't conceive of the notion that they MIGHT be wrong and then proceed to suggest I don't "understand". It's unsightly and I don't put up with it very well. Thats the work that continues in me though. Peace to you friend. Remember I'm not the one walking away.

I'm not walking away from you the way you think.

Christ is the first goer of faith, walking towards the caller , God the Father. Then, there's a second goer, then a third and so on. I'm just one of those goers up ahead of you , yelling back at you to avoid the stumbling blocks I just walked through. But you don't want to hear it. So I say selah, so be it. I am walking away from you, not backwards but forward. I can't drag you along anylonger.

 

[rewriter]

Sanctification has much in common with most 12-step programs, in both cases we remain as we were before we started on our journey, we are still sinners or still addicts to our drug of choice, just recovering rather than getting worse. When God fully heals us THEN we will be free.

 

[Watchman22]

Sanctification has much in common with most 12-step programs, in both cases we remain as we were before we started on our journey, we are still sinners or still addicts to our drug of choice, just recovering rather than getting worse. When God fully heals us THEN we will be free.

Hi rewriter, sorry if I came out of the gate kind of strong, I wasn't my intention.

Thats kind of a perfect example about the steps and recovering or not.

In the first forward of the AA book, it says, "we are more than 100 men and women who have "RECOVERED" from a seemingly hopeless state of mind and body."

But if you say in public your a "recovered " addict or alcoholic , your looked at like there's something wrong with you.

God left AA and all the other A's years ago. I spent 38 years trying to get it back to no avail.

 

[Nedsk]

I'm not walking away from you the way you think.

Christ is the first goer of faith, walking towards the caller , God the Father. Then, there's a second goer, then a third and so on. I'm just one of those goers up ahead of you , yelling back at you to avoid the stumbling blocks I just walked through. But you don't want to hear it. So I say selah, so be it. I am walking away from you, not backwards but forward. I can't drag you along anylonger.

You aren't dragging me anywhere but don't try to convince me the sin we commit isn't us but the sin within us. That's not paradoxical it's illogical. I don't say that to mean you're illogical but that idea is. Jesus being fully divine and fully human is paradox. The Virgin birth is a paradox.

I'm not walking away from you the way you think.

Christ is the first goer of faith, walking towards the caller , God the Father. Then, there's a second goer, then a third and so on. I'm just one of those goers up ahead of you , yelling back at you to avoid the stumbling blocks I just walked through. But you don't want to hear it. So I say selah, so be it. I am walking away from you, not backwards but forward. I can't drag you along anylonger.

The idea that we don't sin but it's the sin within us that sins is illogical not paradoxical. Let me ask you a different question, if it's the sin in us that sins and not us, are responsible for that sin?