What Scriptures say Jesus and the Father are on the same level?
- Thread starter TheLearner
- Start date
-
Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.
If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!
To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
“And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh,
justified in the Spirit,
seen of angels,
preached unto the Gentiles,
believed on in the world,
received up into glory.”
1 Timothy 3:16 KJV
“God was manifest in the flesh,”
“Behold, a virgin shall be with child, and shall bring forth a son, And they shall call his name Emmanuel, which being interpreted is, God with us.”
Matthew 1:23 KJV
“justified in the Spirit, “
“And when Jesus had cried with a loud voice, he said, Father, into thy hands I commend my spirit: and having said thus, he gave up the ghost.”
Luke 23:46 KJV
“seen of angels, “
“For unto you is born this day in the city of David a Saviour, which is Christ the Lord. And this shall be a sign unto you; Ye shall find the babe wrapped in swaddling clothes, lying in a manger. And suddenly there was with the angel a multitude of the heavenly host praising God, and saying, Glory to God in the highest, And on earth peace, good will toward men.”
Luke 2:11-14 KJV
“And he was there in the wilderness forty days, tempted of Satan; and was with the wild beasts; and the angels ministered unto him.”
Mark 1:13 KJV
“preached unto the Gentiles, “
“And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature. He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.”
Mark 16:15-16 KJV
“believed on in the world, “
“knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.”
Galatians 2:16 KJV
“received up into glory.”
“So then after the Lord had spoken unto them, he was received up into heaven, and sat on the right hand of God.”
Mark 16:19 KJV
justified in the Spirit,
seen of angels,
preached unto the Gentiles,
believed on in the world,
received up into glory.”
1 Timothy 3:16 KJV
“God was manifest in the flesh,”
“Behold, a virgin shall be with child, and shall bring forth a son, And they shall call his name Emmanuel, which being interpreted is, God with us.”
Matthew 1:23 KJV
“justified in the Spirit, “
“And when Jesus had cried with a loud voice, he said, Father, into thy hands I commend my spirit: and having said thus, he gave up the ghost.”
Luke 23:46 KJV
“seen of angels, “
“For unto you is born this day in the city of David a Saviour, which is Christ the Lord. And this shall be a sign unto you; Ye shall find the babe wrapped in swaddling clothes, lying in a manger. And suddenly there was with the angel a multitude of the heavenly host praising God, and saying, Glory to God in the highest, And on earth peace, good will toward men.”
Luke 2:11-14 KJV
“And he was there in the wilderness forty days, tempted of Satan; and was with the wild beasts; and the angels ministered unto him.”
Mark 1:13 KJV
“preached unto the Gentiles, “
“And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature. He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.”
Mark 16:15-16 KJV
“believed on in the world, “
“knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.”
Galatians 2:16 KJV
“received up into glory.”
“So then after the Lord had spoken unto them, he was received up into heaven, and sat on the right hand of God.”
Mark 16:19 KJV
-
2
- Show all
Ok. Now consider these positional differences:
1. The Father is the head of Christ, as Christ is the head of the church
2. The Son alone is the Judge of humanity (future application)
3. The Son alone is the Mediator of humanity
4. The Father is the Sender of Messiah and fashioned a body for Him
5. The Father alone is the Husband of Israel
6. Christ alone is betrothed to the Church
7. The Father-Son relationship is only experienced in one direction within the Trinity
8. The Father's will is submitted to (before and after Incarnation)
9. The Son alone will be the head of all earthly rule in the Millennium
These are a few examples of positional differences between the Father and the Son in Scripture. They have different roles, different functions, different positions, and different spheres of authority. There exists equal essence of divinity and positional submission within the Godhead.
1. The Father is the head of Christ, as Christ is the head of the church
2. The Son alone is the Judge of humanity (future application)
3. The Son alone is the Mediator of humanity
4. The Father is the Sender of Messiah and fashioned a body for Him
5. The Father alone is the Husband of Israel
6. Christ alone is betrothed to the Church
7. The Father-Son relationship is only experienced in one direction within the Trinity
8. The Father's will is submitted to (before and after Incarnation)
9. The Son alone will be the head of all earthly rule in the Millennium
These are a few examples of positional differences between the Father and the Son in Scripture. They have different roles, different functions, different positions, and different spheres of authority. There exists equal essence of divinity and positional submission within the Godhead.
-
2
-
1
- Show all
If I may interject here.
There are "Positional" differences, among the three persons of the Godhead, that have existed from all Eternity.
There has always existed the three Persons that make up One God in essence. Likewise, there has always been "positional" order in the Godhead. The First Person, is the Father. (As revealed by Jesus Christ Himself). The Second Person, is the Son and the Third Person is the Holy Spirit. This has always been. The Father cannot be a Father without a Son and the Son cannot be a Son without a Father.
But because God is Eternal by nature, He knows no time order. Everything is in the mind of God at once - not serially in time - as with us. The Father had a "Plan" from all Eternity. A plan that had universal agreement within the Godhead. A "Plan" of Creation and Sin and Redemption and Renewal. Therefore, the Son agreed to be subservient to the Father and the Holy Spirit agreed to be subservient to both in order to accomplish this Plan.
These "positions" are out of love and respect for one another. Necessary to execute and complete God's Eternal Plan. All three are equal in essence and authority. However, if they had not agreed to be subservient to each... there would have been contention and disorder.
This Perfect Service, to one another, is taught throughout the Scriptures for our benefit. Believers are to be subservient to their Elders - Husbands to Christ - Wives to their Husbands and Children to their Parents. If we could do this as perfectly as God, then we would have peace and love throughout the world. Serving one another in Joy and Happiness.
In a legal sense, this could be expressed in this way: The Father drew up the Document. The Son is it's Executor. The holy Spirit administers the details out to the recipients.
There are "Positional" differences, among the three persons of the Godhead, that have existed from all Eternity.
There has always existed the three Persons that make up One God in essence. Likewise, there has always been "positional" order in the Godhead. The First Person, is the Father. (As revealed by Jesus Christ Himself). The Second Person, is the Son and the Third Person is the Holy Spirit. This has always been. The Father cannot be a Father without a Son and the Son cannot be a Son without a Father.
But because God is Eternal by nature, He knows no time order. Everything is in the mind of God at once - not serially in time - as with us. The Father had a "Plan" from all Eternity. A plan that had universal agreement within the Godhead. A "Plan" of Creation and Sin and Redemption and Renewal. Therefore, the Son agreed to be subservient to the Father and the Holy Spirit agreed to be subservient to both in order to accomplish this Plan.
These "positions" are out of love and respect for one another. Necessary to execute and complete God's Eternal Plan. All three are equal in essence and authority. However, if they had not agreed to be subservient to each... there would have been contention and disorder.
This Perfect Service, to one another, is taught throughout the Scriptures for our benefit. Believers are to be subservient to their Elders - Husbands to Christ - Wives to their Husbands and Children to their Parents. If we could do this as perfectly as God, then we would have peace and love throughout the world. Serving one another in Joy and Happiness.
In a legal sense, this could be expressed in this way: The Father drew up the Document. The Son is it's Executor. The holy Spirit administers the details out to the recipients.
-
2
- Show all
Thank you for articulating what I believe and was getting at.
Because of these positional differences, Jesus can truly say, "the Father is greater than I"
I have to correct you here, brother. Jesus was one with the Father while on earth, before His ascension.
““I and the Father are one.”” (John 10:30)
This was your original reason for arguing that Jesus' statement, "the Father is greater than I" is no longer true.
But through your own explanation (and my comments) we agree that hierarchal positional differences exist before and after Jesus' time on earth. So it's a moot point to say that Jesus' ascension abrogates Jesus' statement. You imply that the Father's position is no longer greater merely because of Jesus' ascension. How did you come to that conclusion? The Father was positionally greater than Jesus before and after His life on earth. I gave you 9 examples.
Because of these positional differences, Jesus can truly say, "the Father is greater than I"
I have to correct you here, brother. Jesus was one with the Father while on earth, before His ascension.
““I and the Father are one.”” (John 10:30)
This was your original reason for arguing that Jesus' statement, "the Father is greater than I" is no longer true.
But through your own explanation (and my comments) we agree that hierarchal positional differences exist before and after Jesus' time on earth. So it's a moot point to say that Jesus' ascension abrogates Jesus' statement. You imply that the Father's position is no longer greater merely because of Jesus' ascension. How did you come to that conclusion? The Father was positionally greater than Jesus before and after His life on earth. I gave you 9 examples.
-
3
- Show all
If you have two managers that perform the same function then you have one too many managers.
If the arrangement between the Father and the Son were not one of necessity, then there would be no Father or Son. Having a "father" makes "the child" necessary. They are terms of relationship and kinship.
But we have both the Father and the Son. We see One, and by Jesus the Son, we may see God the Father.
Salvation makes a way for us into representation whereby we may represent our heavenly Father in the earth. This is how the Living God decided to reveal Himself: in creation and in the lives of His children.
As an aside (this part is free of charge) proper study of the creation will lead us to the Living God just as proper study of the scriptures will lead us the the One who is the Son WHO IN TURN will lead us the Father. They are all connected because, ultimately, God is all in all... which we have yet to see in time and space.
If the arrangement between the Father and the Son were not one of necessity, then there would be no Father or Son. Having a "father" makes "the child" necessary. They are terms of relationship and kinship.
But we have both the Father and the Son. We see One, and by Jesus the Son, we may see God the Father.
Salvation makes a way for us into representation whereby we may represent our heavenly Father in the earth. This is how the Living God decided to reveal Himself: in creation and in the lives of His children.
As an aside (this part is free of charge) proper study of the creation will lead us to the Living God just as proper study of the scriptures will lead us the the One who is the Son WHO IN TURN will lead us the Father. They are all connected because, ultimately, God is all in all... which we have yet to see in time and space.
-
1
- Show all
“For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.”
Colossians 2:9 KJV
a speaking of Jesus “ in him “ as of one and not as of three or many , is the fullness of the diety in bodily form or “ fullness of the godhead bodily “
Only when Jesus is manifest is the father son and holy ghost made known it’s why the gospel is so important Tom our faith
It’s in Christ that we learn about the father , son and Holy Ghost only the gospels establish that faith
“I and my Father are one.”
John 10:30 KJV
“God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.”
John 4:24 KJV
“Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? the words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself: but the Father that dwelleth in me, he doeth the works.”
John 14:10 KJV
“And because ye are sons, God hath sent forth the Spirit of his Son into your hearts, crying, Abba, Father.”
Galatians 4:6 KJV
“But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.”
Romans 8:9 KJV
“ They” are one God manifest in Jesus Christ
-
1
- Show all