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whats your opinion on atheism ?
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sunshinelovin1700
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I was "baptised" Lutheran myself when I was a mere babe. I don't follow their teachings. Don't believe in their teachings. Not putting anyone down that does just not my cup of coffee. That last thing you said was pretty intriguing. I'de like to let it cook for a while, and I DO think it's a great point/fact.(most if not all people on this forum are nice and moral, most if not all only see the world through the lens of their religious views.) Denominational views at that! But it is a Christian site so to be expected.
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Grey
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But the thing that most disgusts me about any organized, political, religious, or cultural organization is the indoctrination of children.
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imminentCataclysm
Guest
I believe it is okay, though sad and unfortunate for one to be an atheist. I can understand that some have "reasons" not to believe, though I think they are rather silly. What I find not to be okay is their tendency to try to disprove Christians and argue with them, and make fun of them. I know not all are like that, but there are many who display such a nature. I have seen too many comments such as "Don't be so stupid and ignorant. It isn't real." on questions Christians are sincerely asking of other Christians.
I believe that atheists tend to disprove themselves a bit, or rather not understand what a Christian tries to explain. For instance, an atheist will say that "Well I can't see it so I won't believe it.", however, they believe in the gravity that keeps them from floating away into space. They know gravity exists, but they cannot look at it or touch it. It is simply there(thank God it is!). The proof of God is everywhere, however could such complex beings exist without having a creator? How could there be billions of cells living inside a single organism by chance? Can you imagine how much power and thought is needed to put into something like that? I believe that we can look to the aspect of science to help prove ourselves. With the growing age of technology, we are seeing how much thought is put into making one single invention. Yes, they become mass produced, but the layout of the device had to be developed first with careful consideration.
I believe that atheists tend to disprove themselves a bit, or rather not understand what a Christian tries to explain. For instance, an atheist will say that "Well I can't see it so I won't believe it.", however, they believe in the gravity that keeps them from floating away into space. They know gravity exists, but they cannot look at it or touch it. It is simply there(thank God it is!). The proof of God is everywhere, however could such complex beings exist without having a creator? How could there be billions of cells living inside a single organism by chance? Can you imagine how much power and thought is needed to put into something like that? I believe that we can look to the aspect of science to help prove ourselves. With the growing age of technology, we are seeing how much thought is put into making one single invention. Yes, they become mass produced, but the layout of the device had to be developed first with careful consideration.
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Grey
Guest
I believe it is okay, though sad and unfortunate for one to be an atheist. I can understand that some have "reasons" not to believe, though I think they are rather silly. What I find not to be okay is their tendency to try to disprove Christians and argue with them, and make fun of them. I know not all are like that, but there are many who display such a nature. I have seen too many comments such as "Don't be so stupid and ignorant. It isn't real." on questions Christians are sincerely asking of other Christians.
I believe that atheists tend to disprove themselves a bit, or rather not understand what a Christian tries to explain. For instance, an atheist will say that "Well I can't see it so I won't believe it.", however, they believe in the gravity that keeps them from floating away into space. They know gravity exists, but they cannot look at it or touch it. It is simply there(thank God it is!). The proof of God is everywhere, however could such complex beings exist without having a creator? How could there be billions of cells living inside a single organism by chance? Can you imagine how much power and thought is needed to put into something like that? I believe that we can look to the aspect of science to help prove ourselves. With the growing age of technology, we are seeing how much thought is put into making one single invention. Yes, they become mass produced, but the layout of the device had to be developed first with careful consideration.
Great point, that's why I want to hear more opinions. Believe me, they think the reasons why you believe are silly as well. But I'm not going to pretend that all atheists have the intellectual and moral high-ground. I think that's a bit of a strawman but I understand the argument, (although you can see gravity, just spit and see if it goes up or down). This is not an insult, but the last part of what you said is traditionally defined as an "argument from ignorance", the "its too complicated".
But many atheists, myself included earlier on, do act fervently like a religious person at times. My main point is that there is an absence of absolute certainty.
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sunshinelovin1700
Guest
But the thing that most disgusts me about any organized, political, religious, or cultural organization is the indoctrination of children.
So it is wrong of me to tell my children to not steal or murder or to love one another? and ect..... What exact indoctrination upsets you. You mention children my friend I'm a mom and when it comes to them you may press nerves.
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Grey
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So it is wrong of me to tell my children to not steal or murder or to love one another? and ect..... What exact indoctrination upsets you. You mention children my friend I'm a mom and when it comes to them you may press nerves.
Morality is not exclusively derived from religion. I know not to steal because I will go to jail if caught, I know not to murder, because it will affect me psychologically for the rest of my life, and I will likely go to jail also.
Indoctrination upsets me because when an adult teaches a child a concept, whether it be a political ideology, religious dogma, or nationalism, without teaching other points of views, without allowing doubt, and without teaching them at an age when they can fully grasp it. Thus when a belief you have gained comes from your childhood, a simplistic way of thinking is attached to the concept.
I'd say many adults are religious today because they were taught, "this is our religion, it is correct, beyond question", at childhood, once this is drilled into their heads by the time they reach adulthood they've had it in their lives so long it is rarely shead, if they do they risk cutting off a significant tie to their family and community.
Not only religion, but how many people in the world are this political party or that political party simply because their parents were?
How many people think their nation is a faultless, great nation?
Choice by rational reasoning (when one is capable of comprehending what entails this belief), is the only safe and fair way to maintain a society that is not populated by drones. Free thinking is crucial.
So it is wrong of me to tell my children to not steal or murder or to love one another? and ect..... What exact indoctrination upsets you. You mention children my friend I'm a mom and when it comes to them you may press nerves.
The indoctrination to tell your child that god exists and that no matter what anyone tells you or no matter what challenges they give you, it's true. That's the disgusting act of what a parent can do.
Telling your child not to steal or murder is great, but telling them god exists is just wrong. The best thing to do is to give them all the info, unbiase of course with no favour toward either side, and let them decide what they believe.
I believe it is okay, though sad and unfortunate for one to be an atheist. I can understand that some have "reasons" not to believe, though I think they are rather silly. What I find not to be okay is their tendency to try to disprove Christians and argue with them, and make fun of them. I know not all are like that, but there are many who display such a nature. I have seen too many comments such as "Don't be so stupid and ignorant. It isn't real." on questions Christians are sincerely asking of other Christians.
I believe that atheists tend to disprove themselves a bit, or rather not understand what a Christian tries to explain. For instance, an atheist will say that "Well I can't see it so I won't believe it.", however, they believe in the gravity that keeps them from floating away into space. They know gravity exists, but they cannot look at it or touch it. It is simply there(thank God it is!). The proof of God is everywhere, however could such complex beings exist without having a creator? How could there be billions of cells living inside a single organism by chance? Can you imagine how much power and thought is needed to put into something like that? I believe that we can look to the aspect of science to help prove ourselves. With the growing age of technology, we are seeing how much thought is put into making one single invention. Yes, they become mass produced, but the layout of the device had to be developed first with careful consideration.
I's say personally, i'm tired of hearing that it's too complicated that it must have been from a creator and the proof is everywhere blahblah.
We're not trying to disprove christianity, we just don't find any reason to believe in it and i want to know why you guys do. And so far i have not heard any good evidence.
Gravity is a force, we know it's there because we have demonstrated that things fall at an accelerated pace. We can't see god, but we also have nothing to demonstrate that it's there or that he's even doing anything
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Anonimous
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Siberian_Khatru
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That's true. So where do you suppose it is derived from?Morality is not exclusively derived from religion.
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Grey
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That's true. So where do you suppose it is derived from?
Empathy
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sunshinelovin1700
Guest
The indoctrination to tell your child that god exists and that no matter what anyone tells you or no matter what challenges they give you, it's true. That's the disgusting act of what a parent can do.
Telling your child not to steal or murder is great, but telling them god exists is just wrong. The best thing to do is to give them all the info, unbiase of course with no favour toward either side, and let them decide what they believe.
Isn't the child going to decide for himself one day anyway just as you have?
I believe they will. I highly doubt they will go on with life and question His exsistance. Even I have questioned it, everyone has I'm sure, whether they admit it or not.
Isn't that why evolution theory is taught in school to get our children's minds to consider something other than intelligent design?
I don't believe it's wrong to teach a child about God. What my friend would you do if you had a child and they were ill and dieing? Would you tell that child theres no afterlife or you don't know good luck on your journey nothing awaits you? I'm sorry if this example offends I have children and I can't imagine the pain it must feel to lose one.
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Grey
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sunshinelovin1700
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Death is only a part of life, it has a beginning and an end.
True but a child will have many questions, and your telling me it would be better for them to think they die and are erased from exsistance than to one day be in heaven where there is no more pain or sorrow? Oh Grey!
Isn't the child going to decide for himself one day anyway just as you have?
I believe they will. I highly doubt they will go on with life and question His exsistance. Even I have questioned it, everyone has I'm sure, whether they admit it or not.
Isn't that why evolution theory is taught in school to get our children's minds to consider something other than intelligent design?
I don't believe it's wrong to teach a child about God. What my friend would you do if you had a child and they were ill and dieing? Would you tell that child theres no afterlife or you don't know good luck on your journey nothing awaits you? I'm sorry if this example offends I have children and I can't imagine the pain it must feel to lose one.
evolution theory is taught because there's no doubt with all the evidence they can produce from it.
Yes children will decide one day, but their brains are sponges when they are young and unless corrected later, csn stick in their. There are some people who act like assholes because their parents were so they think it's ok. Even if they now know it's not ok, they still feel it to be ok. So bottom line, the teachings will effect your child, so don't assert truth to them, teach them to critically think.
Telling children about god is not bad, but telling them it's true rather then unproven is the mental abuse you've put on them. Once you drill in their head that something is true, when it lacks evidence, they just go along with it.
Honestly, in that situation if the child was dying, i think that i would. The point is that they never got to live a life of joy and happiness and telling them that there's an afterlife will give them some happiness before they pass.
Honestly, it depends on the situation. I would just leave it as "we don't know". There could be an afterlife and no god, there could be several gods and no afterlife, there could be reincarnations, rebirths or an infinite number of things. The thing we should teach them is that anything is possible, but only believe in things that has a good basis and has evidence
True but a child will have many questions, and your telling me it would be better for them to think they die and are erased from exsistance than to one day be in heaven where there is no more pain or sorrow? Oh Grey!
There is no pain or sorrow when you die. You won't exist to experience that
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sunshinelovin1700
Guest
Basbool You are 17 forgive me for not knowing if you happen to be a dad or not. I'm not mentaly abusing my children by telling them God exsists. But I can't prove it to them either. I hope the spirit of truth will lead them to the right understanding. So for you to say that offends me deeply. I feel I am a good mom, My kids have more than I ever did growing up and not just possessions either. I listen when they talk, I comfort them, I cry with them if they cry I may not be the best mom but I am a better one than my own was to me. You wanna see abuse check this out. I would NEVER do this.evolution theory is taught because there's no doubt with all the evidence they can produce from it.
Yes children will decide one day, but their brains are sponges when they are young and unless corrected later, csn stick in their. There are some people who act like assholes because their parents were so they think it's ok. Even if they now know it's not ok, they still feel it to be ok. So bottom line, the teachings will effect your child, so don't assert truth to them, teach them to critically think.
Telling children about god is not bad, but telling them it's true rather then unproven is the mental abuse you've put on them. Once you drill in their head that something is true, when it lacks evidence, they just go along with it.
Honestly, in that situation if the child was dying, i think that i would. The point is that they never got to live a life of joy and happiness and telling them that there's an afterlife will give them some happiness before they pass.
Honestly, it depends on the situation. I would just leave it as "we don't know". There could be an afterlife and no god, there could be several gods and no afterlife, there could be reincarnations, rebirths or an infinite number of things. The thing we should teach them is that anything is possible, but only believe in things that has a good basis and has evidence
[video=youtube;6RNfL6IVWCE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6RNfL6IVWCE[/video]
Or I even watched something once about a mom that had like 3 daughters. Who was telling them the rapture was going to occur at any moment. Therefore they stayed home all day read the bible(not that reading it is a bad thing) the mother encouraged them to not get involved with boys as the rapture was going to occur so they were never going to be wed anyway. I remember 1 of the daughters saying "It's not fair cause I wanna have children" Ok this my friend is abuse granted the rapture can and will occur I'm appalled at this mothers actions. To say "we just don't know" is crazy to me. There is no nuetrality(made up word) with God. If I did that and got to heaven and He said to me why should I let you in you didnt believe in me or my Son whome I sent? And I say well geeze God I just never really knew if you were real or not.
Oh man the lost are truely lost aren't they?
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Basbool You are 17 forgive me for not knowing if you happen to be a dad or not. I'm not mentaly abusing my children by telling them God exsists. But I can't prove it to them either. I hope the spirit of truth will lead them to the right understanding. So for you to say that offends me deeply. I feel I am a good mom, My kids have more than I ever did growing up and not just possessions either. I listen when they talk, I comfort them, I cry with them if they cry I may not be the best mom but I am a better one than my own was to me. You wanna see abuse check this out. I would NEVER do this.
[video=youtube;6RNfL6IVWCE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6RNfL6IVWCE[/video]
Or I even watched something once about a mom that had like 3 daughters. Who was telling them the rapture was going to occur at any moment. Therefore they stayed home all day read the bible(not that reading it is a bad thing) the mother encouraged them to not get involved with boys as the rapture was going to occur so they were never going to be wed anyway. I remember 1 of the daughters saying "It's not fair cause I wanna have children" Ok this my friend is abuse granted the rapture can and will occur I'm appalled at this mothers actions. To say "we just don't know" is crazy to me. There is no nuetrality(made up word) with God. If I did that and got to heaven and He said to me why should I let you in you didnt believe in me or my Son whome I sent? And I say well geeze God I just never really knew if you were real or not.
Oh man the lost are truely lost aren't they?
Again, if you're preaching that a god exists, let alone the god you believe in, that's a type of abuse. Not the extent you mention, but you're cutting off their ability to use critical thinking because you just said you can't prove it, so telling them its true without proof is going to damage the way they think about other things.
You can believe what you want, but you're children will soak in everything you teach them. If you teach them that some things exist an you don't need proof for it. You really think that won't bite them in the face one day?
You may take the position of the parent, but i can easily take the position of the child. My dad was islamic and my mom was christian. They both were trying to tell me that they were right and the other was wrong. If i didn't have people correct me on the points they taught me, i would've begun this world as an ignorant child, and i know my parents wouldn't want that. I'm telling you from my experience, don't preach things you have no proof to on your child: it will potentially hurt them more then you think
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sunshinelovin1700
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Again, if you're preaching that a god exists, let alone the god you believe in, that's a type of abuse. Not the extent you mention, but you're cutting off their ability to use critical thinking because you just said you can't prove it, so telling them its true without proof is going to damage the way they think about other things.
They will come to their own one day and if they believe in God great! If not then I will be saddened. I do tell my children mainly older daughter, to question everything. Even me even government. I'm not raising mindless zombies to do what their told. I am not a perfect christian my friend. They will make their own decision one day but I do not feed endless doctrine into their heads..... I tell them what I think about God. And I use those exact words too "I THINK" Not "I KNOW" I don't know much compared to some. But I feel God in my life and I hope they "Feel" Him one day too. Please do not assume that you know how I am raising my children. I have come to like you basebool let's not ruin it with insults like bad parenting please. My burden is heavy enough. Much love and peace my friend.