When God slays, is that immoral? Dr Frank Turek answers

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.

Aerials1978

Well-known member
Dec 10, 2019
1,707
987
113
#21
the scripture says, 'What do I do to inherit 'eternal-life'???
MATT. 19:16.
And, behold, one came and said unto Him, Good Master, what good thing shall I do, that I may have eternal life?
MATT. 19:17.
And He said unto him, Why call you Me good? there is none good but One, that is, God: but if you will enter into (life),
(((keep the Commandments))).

WHY would we ask a 'man' to give us an understanding, when we have Yeshua and His Holy scriptures to give us
give us understanding of His Ways???
as it is written,
'Should we obey God or man'???
So let ask you, do you keep Saturday as the sabbath or Sunday?
 
Feb 28, 2016
11,311
2,974
113
#22
the Seventh Day, as it is Commanded...
ordinarily we don't answer trolls, but we are making an exception for YOU,
YOU are such a HOOT!!!
TY for the 'laughs', this transmission is now ended)...
:):)
 

Whispered

Well-known member
Aug 17, 2019
4,551
2,230
113
www.christiancourier.com
#23
You have to take the context in which both Jesus and Isaiah were speaking. Where in the New Covenant are we called to keep the Sabbath Day? Also, wouldn’t it blasphemous to change the Sabbath day in terms of the Jewish calendar?
Actually, it doesn't have to tell us to keep the sabbath day holy in the new testament. The old testament was clear enough.
The Book of Exodus chapter 31:13 “You are to speak to the people of Israel and say, ‘Above all you shall keep my Sabbaths, for this is a sign between me and you throughout your generations, that you may know that I, the Lord, sanctify you.

Christians of today are grafted into the tree that is God's chosen of Israel. Jesus said, if you love me keep my commands. Jesus also said, upon love are the foundation of the prophets and the laws.
We know the sacrificial law is done away with because Jesus was the final sacrifice.

Jesus is Lord of the Sabbath.(Sabbath=to rest, to cease)That means two things. It means that when Jesus was the Lord God who created the Sabbath day that we keep it holy across generations, He is also that Holy Spirit God in whom we have our rest, meaning while we are always in Christ, the Sabbath day that was made for us is what allows us to rest from the rigors of the world and find peace and communion with God.

The actual pointed counter to keeping the Sabbath would be, prove to us in the new testament where Jesus said the Sabbath is done away.
It does not exist. What does exist is Jesus telling us, if we love Him we will keep His commands.

The Book of 1st John chapter 3:
19 By this we shall know that we are of the truth and reassure our heart before him; 20 for whenever our heart condemns us, God is greater than our heart, and he knows everything. 21 Beloved, if our heart does not condemn us, we have confidence before God; 22 and whatever we ask we receive from him, because we keep his commandments and do what pleases him. 23 And this is his commandment, that we believe in the name of his Son Jesus Christ and love one another, just as he has commanded us. 24 Whoever keeps his commandments abides in God,[d] and God[e] in him. And by this we know that he abides in us, by the Spirit whom he has given us.



Jesus was asked: "Teacher, which is the greatest commandment in the Law?" Jesus replied: " 'Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.' This is the first and greatest commandment. And the second is like it: 'Love your neighbor as yourself.' All the Law and the Prophets hang on these two commandments,".... (The Book of Matthew chapter 22:verses 36 to40 Amplified Version)

Why should anyone take issue with the Christian that honors the Sabbath day? (from sundown on Friday unto sundown Saturday)
Especially if the Christian goes to church on Sunday. What is that but an abrogation of the Sabbath itself.
 

UnoiAmarah

Junior Member
Jul 28, 2017
907
141
43
#24
We as Christians are not commanded to keep the Sabbath Holy.
Well Paul did write that the carnal mind is not subject to the law of truth, neither could it be because it was at enmity with the God of this world. So do you think you are not commanded to keep the Sabbath holy because you have free will and are no longer subject to the OT law?
 

Aerials1978

Well-known member
Dec 10, 2019
1,707
987
113
#25
Well Paul did write that the carnal mind is not subject to the law of truth, neither could it be because it was at enmity with the God of this world. So do you think you are not commanded to keep the Sabbath holy because you have free will and are no longer subject to the OT law?
You’re mixing two subjects. Are we taking about the moral law? If that is the case, than we should uphold that as we are a new creation(Yet we will fall short of that standard at times)As for the Sabbath, no we are not called to do as the Israelites were called to do.
 

Aerials1978

Well-known member
Dec 10, 2019
1,707
987
113
#26
Actually, it doesn't have to tell us to keep the sabbath day holy in the new testament. The old testament was clear enough.
The Book of Exodus chapter 31:13 “You are to speak to the people of Israel and say, ‘Above all you shall keep my Sabbaths, for this is a sign between me and you throughout your generations, that you may know that I, the Lord, sanctify you.

Christians of today are grafted into the tree that is God's chosen of Israel. Jesus said, if you love me keep my commands. Jesus also said, upon love are the foundation of the prophets and the laws.
We know the sacrificial law is done away with because Jesus was the final sacrifice.

Jesus is Lord of the Sabbath.(Sabbath=to rest, to cease)That means two things. It means that when Jesus was the Lord God who created the Sabbath day that we keep it holy across generations, He is also that Holy Spirit God in whom we have our rest, meaning while we are always in Christ, the Sabbath day that was made for us is what allows us to rest from the rigors of the world and find peace and communion with God.

The actual pointed counter to keeping the Sabbath would be, prove to us in the new testament where Jesus said the Sabbath is done away.
It does not exist. What does exist is Jesus telling us, if we love Him we will keep His commands.

The Book of 1st John chapter 3:
19 By this we shall know that we are of the truth and reassure our heart before him; 20 for whenever our heart condemns us, God is greater than our heart, and he knows everything. 21 Beloved, if our heart does not condemn us, we have confidence before God; 22 and whatever we ask we receive from him, because we keep his commandments and do what pleases him. 23 And this is his commandment, that we believe in the name of his Son Jesus Christ and love one another, just as he has commanded us. 24 Whoever keeps his commandments abides in God,[d] and God[e] in him. And by this we know that he abides in us, by the Spirit whom he has given us.



Jesus was asked: "Teacher, which is the greatest commandment in the Law?" Jesus replied: " 'Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.' This is the first and greatest commandment. And the second is like it: 'Love your neighbor as yourself.' All the Law and the Prophets hang on these two commandments,".... (The Book of Matthew chapter 22:verses 36 to40 Amplified Version)

Why should anyone take issue with the Christian that honors the Sabbath day? (from sundown on Friday unto sundown Saturday)
Especially if the Christian goes to church on Sunday. What is that but an abrogation of the Sabbath itself.
I don’t take issue with anyone that wants to keep the OT view of the Sabbath. The issue I have is when those that hold that view tell the rest of us we need do so. I have explained this(along with others) that this is not the case in my pervious posts.
 

Whispered

Well-known member
Aug 17, 2019
4,551
2,230
113
www.christiancourier.com
#27
I don’t take issue with anyone that wants to keep the OT view of the Sabbath. The issue I have is when those that hold that view tell the rest of us we need do so. I have explained this(along with others) that this is not the case in my pervious posts.
Sure, and I wasn't pointing you out as one that has an issue. My remarks concerning such persons was generalized so as to apply to those for whom it would apply.
 

JaumeJ

Senior Member
Jul 2, 2011
21,429
6,707
113
#28
Didn’t Jesus fulfill the law by His life? And were did Jesus or any Apostle command to keep the Sabbath? I will continue to wait.

Jesus, Yeshua, fulfills the law by His person, the Word. He teaches all to obey the law under grace as it remains after His firtst coming. He tells us to obey the law as it remains. He does not say the law saves anyone, however it taks a true ingrate to say after His agony on the Corss that obedience is no longer needed. This takes no ddeep thinking nor great leaps of knowledge from above. It is the nature of good children to obey their Father. Is it not?

If we wait, we should wait on Jesus, Yeshua, and He has not annulled the seventh day as given to us.
 

Aerials1978

Well-known member
Dec 10, 2019
1,707
987
113
#29
Jesus, Yeshua, fulfills the law by His person, the Word. He teaches all to obey the law under grace as it remains after His firtst coming. He tells us to obey the law as it remains. He does not say the law saves anyone, however it taks a true ingrate to say after His agony on the Corss that obedience is no longer needed. This takes no ddeep thinking nor great leaps of knowledge from above. It is the nature of good children to obey their Father. Is it not?

If we wait, we should wait on Jesus, Yeshua, and He has not annulled the seventh day as given to us.
So you’re saying I am an Ingrate? Thanks! Also, where did Jesus or any Apostle state keeping the Sabbath as it was is a commandment? I’m expecting the proverbial 5:18 rebuttal.
 

JaumeJ

Senior Member
Jul 2, 2011
21,429
6,707
113
#30
When I share what I have learned it applies sto all. None or so important as to think the teaching from Jesus, Yeshua, is just for him. Now it is true we each have our understanding in a most personal way from Him…..but the bottom line is HIs teaching obeyed.
 

Aerials1978

Well-known member
Dec 10, 2019
1,707
987
113
#31
When I share what I have learned it applies sto all. None or so important as to think the teaching from Jesus, Yeshua, is just for him. Now it is true we each have our understanding in a most personal way from Him…..but the bottom line is HIs teaching obeyed.
???!
 

UnoiAmarah

Junior Member
Jul 28, 2017
907
141
43
#32
WHY would we ask a 'man' to give us an understanding, when we have Yeshua and His Holy scriptures to give us
give us understanding of His Ways???
So who taught you how to read? Yeshua or man?
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
#33
Wow this quickly turned into a sabbath thread.
 
Mar 28, 2016
15,954
1,528
113
#34
Didn’t Jesus fulfill the law by His life? And were did Jesus or any Apostle command to keep the Sabbath? I will continue to wait.
I would offer, keeping in mind there are two sides to a coin. .Satan the counterfeit would make it all as one. His serpent image on both sides. Taking away the faith principle. Can't see both sides of the coin without turning it over.

There is two kinds of keeping depends on what kind of Sabbath is in view ? . The Sabbath that comes by mixing faith according to the prescription (2 Corinthians 4:18) In what we see or hear.

2 Corinthians 4:18 While we look not at the things which are seen, but at the things which are not seen: for the things which are seen are temporal; but the things which are not seen are eternal.

(1) The Sabbath of faith (believing as god works in us) or the other side . . the sabbath that was used in ceremonial laws as shadows or parables of the true the sabbath rest spoken of in Hebrew 4.

Hebrews 4;1-5 King James Version (KJV) Let us therefore fear, lest, a promise being left us of entering into his rest, any of you should seem to come short of it. For unto us was the gospel preached, as well as unto them: but the word preached did not profit them, not being mixed with faith in them that heard it. For we which have believed do enter into rest, as he said, As I have sworn in my wrath, if they shall enter into my rest: although the works were finished from the foundation of the world. For he spake in a certain place of the seventh day on this wise, And God did rest the seventh day from all his works. And in this place again, If they shall enter into my rest.

And (2) the ceremonial sabbath as a shadow (the other side of the coin) It was set aside as holy one day a week . Fasting, where mankind could share there manna with a neighbor. It is reckoned as the true fast .The gospel .It can be found in the whole chapter (Isaiah 58) set aside to define the kind of fast that could drive our demons as lying Spirits which the disciples could not . Again called the gospel fast

It is presented as a parable having "two different reasoning" needed to compare the spiritual unseen understanding (faith) to the same . Unlike the moral laws . . no reason is needed or given. the reason . . ."Thou shalt not"

Two witnesses are used that way throughout the scriptures.

( #1) And remember that thou wast a servant in the land of Egypt, and that the Lord thy God brought thee out thence through a mighty hand and by a stretched out arm: therefore the Lord thy God commanded thee to keep the sabbath day. Deuteronomy 5: 15

( #2) For in six days the Lord made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the Lord blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it. Exodus 20:11

He hallowed it by giving us one day. A est from the work daily needed to maintain these bodies of death . A place where we could offer the true fast . Taking care of the worldly needs and sharing the Spirit of faith needed, the gospel.

The other Sabbath or side of the coin a person fast from their own works being yoked with Christ who works in us. with us every day, every hour, every minute. Today.

One time sentitive the other not. . . as long as today is still under the Sun