When Jesus died, what kind of saints were resurrected ?

[RedTent]

In the Old Testament, when saints died their death was spoken of differently than it was spoken of in the NT. They said they went to be with their Fathers, or go to your Fathers, or something along those lines. Not once does it say that we will go to be with Christ until the resurrection.

Christ made a difference in death, now Christ cleared the way so that, through Him, we can live in eternity with our God. The Old Testament saints were freed from where they waited for Christ, they were freed at this time.

This is the way scripture shows it happening. We are not to read into scripture more than is shown by the very words we read. We are to be led by God, not by our reasoning about how we think God is.

 

[LT]

Sorry LT for offending you I will choose my words more carefully. I have in my experience gathered from previous conversations with christians the 'law' doesn't apply today to them because they have been nailed to the cross. But when I say the 'law' still pertains to all of us even today. I don't mean to imply we do them in order to obtain salvation as if we could do so by our works. Salvation is and always has been on the grounds of God great mercy and nothing else, Daniel expresses that in his heartfelt prayer so very well recorded in Chapter 9:3-19. When I read Torah, everytime God says why we should be obedient to his instruction he equate it with loving Him and living a long life. Those that have children will understand a child who listens to his father and obeys his instruction is a child who loves his father. A subject who loves his king will abide by the his kings rule of law or constitution if you will, when he desires to abide in the kings land.

The rebellious bunch hates their father and king and seeks only his own pleasure. But like the father who forgave the prodigal son so too will our Father in heaven forgive us. All throughout Torah it IS WRITTEN we can at anytime with a repentant heart turn from our ways and walk in His and ask for His forgiveness and He said He would forgive us. No blood was ever required. In fact according to Torah no blood could ever atone for willful transgression.

I wasn't offended. I was just hoping to break down any walls between us. excellent post btw.

I have gotten some conflicting vibes from you so far. Do you believe that Jesus was the Christ (Messiah)? If so, do you believe that he is the son of God?

 

[Delija]

i thought that no one goes to heaven that is what the bible says . the meek shall inherit the earth not heaven

That what Bible say is totally correctly.But that mean in this life,not next.In present to be meek and we shall inherit the earth.Meekness is an essential possession of the spiritual person. Jesus Himself was meek.

 

[timberdoodle]

What do mean which Torah? Torah can mean 'wisdom', 'instruction' and that word christians hate 'law'. The Torah given to Moses before all of Israel, that Torah.

The same Torah ... many nations shall come, and say, Come, and let us go up to the mountain of Yehovah, and to the house of the God of Jacob; and he will teach us of his ways, and we will walk in his paths; for Torah shall go forth from Zion, and the word of Yehovah from Jerusalem. Which seems to imply that if you are living when king messiah comes you will be living by the same instruction given to Israel too.

The Torah is not clearly defined. Any instruction or teaching. Are you suggesting that we must obey all the Jewish instruction and teaching to earn salvation?

Timberdoodle

 

[LT]

The Torah is not clearly defined. Any instruction or teaching. Are you suggesting that we must obey all the Jewish instruction and teaching to earn salvation?

Timberdoodle

are you referring to Oral Torah?

 

[Isdaniel]

In the Old Testament, when saints died their death was spoken of differently than it was spoken of in the NT. They said they went to be with their Fathers, or go to your Fathers, or something along those lines. Not once does it say that we will go to be with Christ until the resurrection.

Christ made a difference in death, now Christ cleared the way so that, through Him, we can live in eternity with our God. The Old Testament saints were freed from where they waited for Christ, they were freed at this time.

This is the way scripture shows it happening. We are not to read into scripture more than is shown by the very words we read. We are to be led by God, not by our reasoning about how we think God is.

are you sayiny that it was the old testement saints that were resurrected when Jesus died on the cross ?

 

[timberdoodle]

are you referring to Oral Torah?

Hope this post finds you well. Blessings in our God and savior Jesus Christ

It is my understanding that the word "Torah can mean different things in different contexts. For mot people it is the first fice books of the Old Testament. That would Be Genesis, Exodus, Leviticus, Numbers and Deuteronomy. The word Torah can also be used as a reference to the entire Jewish Bible or the Old Testament. To take it one step further the Torah can also , in its broader sense , be a reference to all of Jewish Law and Teaching including the Mishnah.


Not sure if most people understand that.

Blessings

Timberdoodle

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

Originally Posted by Selihah
#3: In verse 26 it appears another verse is perverted it for the writters own use. FOR IT IS WRITTEN Isaiah 59:20; And a redeemer shall come to Zion, and to those in Jacob who turn from transgression, says the Yehovah.

Paul quoted Isaiah 59:20 from the LXX (or a pre-Masoretic Hebrew text).

Whats your point here?

My point would be that you were wrong to condemn Paul for perverting this verse because he quoted it verbatim from the LXX, or a pre-Masoretic Hebrew text. You are comparing what he wrote to a translation based on the Masoretic Text.

 

[Isdaniel]

This event was not the old testament saints


Acts 2

32 This Jesus hath God raised up, whereof we all are witnesses.
33 Therefore being by the right hand of God exalted, and having received of the Father the promise of the Holy Ghost, he hath shed forth this, which ye now see and hear.
34 For David is not ascended into the heavens: but he saith himself, The Lord said unto my Lord, Sit thou on my right hand,

 

[Isdaniel]

I also do not believe that persons actually was resurrected that day. people must read the bible word for word not sentence to sentence

 

[Selihah]

I wasn't offended. I was just hoping to break down any walls between us. excellent post btw.

I have gotten some conflicting vibes from you so far. Do you believe that Jesus was the Christ (Messiah)? If so, do you believe that he is the son of God?

No LT I do not believe for a minute Jesus was anointed king. I've read the prophecies concern the king and Jesus never fulfilled any of them. You might say he will return to fulfill he office of the anointed king. My answer to that is if he does or someone else does it doesn't matter I'm cool with either prospect. Nor do I believe God begat a son by having intercourse with a virgin woman nor do I see the need for such a thing. God never once required blood as part of forgiveness. He has always simply stated learn my ways and walk in them and I will forgive you. People make such a big deal out it all the time though.

conflicting vibes huh? in what way?

Look I've read about Jesus some of the things he said I can agree with some others I can't.

Peace LT.

 

[Isdaniel]

No LT I do not believe for a minute Jesus was anointed king. I've read the prophecies concern the king and Jesus never fulfilled any of them. You might say he will return to fulfill he office of the anointed king. My answer to that is if he does or someone else does it doesn't matter I'm cool with either prospect. Nor do I believe God begat a son by having intercourse with a virgin woman nor do I see the need for such a thing. God never once required blood as part of forgiveness. He has always simply stated learn my ways and walk in them and I will forgive you. People make such a big deal out it all the time though.

conflicting vibes huh? in what way?

Look I've read about Jesus some of the things he said I can agree with some others I can't.

Peace LT.

Thank God you are here, for the first time i actually hear a jew stating that about Jesus hmmmmm the bible has to be fullfill sad though that you fall in this catergory but hey blindness inpart has happen to thee

Zechariah 12

9 And it shall come to pass in that day, that I will seek to destroy all the nations that come against Jerusalem.
10 And I will pour upon the house of David, and upon the inhabitants of Jerusalem, the spirit of grace and of supplications: and they shall look upon me whom they have pierced, and they shall mourn for him, as one mourneth for his only son, and shall be in bitterness for him, as one that is in bitterness for his firstborn.
11 In that day shall there be a great mourning in Jerusalem, as the mourning of Hadadrimmon in the valley of Megiddon.
12 And the land shall mourn, every family apart; the family of the house of David apart, and their wives apart; the family of the house of Nathan apart, and their wives apart;
13 The family of the house of Levi apart, and their wives apart; the family of Shimei apart, and their wives apart;
14 All the families that remain, every family apart, and their wives apart.

 

[Selihah]

My point would be that you were wrong to condemn Paul for perverting this verse because he quoted it verbatim from the LXX, or a pre-Masoretic Hebrew text. You are comparing what he wrote to a translation based on the Masoretic Text.

you da' man.

Here's another one for you.

"As it is written. There is none righteous, no, not one; there is none who understands; there is none who seek after God. They have all gone out of the way; they have together become unprofitable; there is none who does good, no not one. Their throat is an open tomb; with their tongues they have practiced deceit; the poison of asps is under their lips; whose mouth is full of cursing and bitterness. Their feet are swift to shed blood; destruction and misery are in their ways; and the way of peace they have not known. There is no fear of God before their eyes.” Romans 3: 8-10


What do ya know another 'as it is written' piece by Paul. Beside Paul's imagination and creative writing skills any idea where Romans 3:8-10 was first written. Hint: he cherry picked this from two different books and six different chapters in Tanach. It seems to me he pieced it all together with the aim to claim that no man could be righteous by abiding in Torah. BUT! If you leave them in context you find just exact opposite.

 

[RedTent]

are you sayiny that it was the old testement saints that were resurrected when Jesus died on the cross ?

Yes. In the OT, physical death was spoken of differently than it is spoken of in the NT because it was different. Christ spent those three days to make the difference. Now they could live with Him in the same way saved people do now.

 

[Isdaniel]

Yes. In the OT, physical death was spoken of differently than it is spoken of in the NT because it was different. Christ spent those three days to make the difference. Now they could live with Him in the same way saved people do now.

Where are these old testament saints now ?

 

[LT]

No LT I do not believe for a minute Jesus was anointed king. I've read the prophecies concern the king and Jesus never fulfilled any of them. You might say he will return to fulfill he office of the anointed king. My answer to that is if he does or someone else does it doesn't matter I'm cool with either prospect. Nor do I believe God begat a son by having intercourse with a virgin woman nor do I see the need for such a thing. God never once required blood as part of forgiveness. He has always simply stated learn my ways and walk in them and I will forgive you. People make such a big deal out it all the time though.

conflicting vibes huh? in what way?

Look I've read about Jesus some of the things he said I can agree with some others I can't.

Peace LT.

Now that you've said your view plainly, there was never a conflict in what you said. I had made assumptions that you proved wrong.

 

[RedTent]

Where are these old testament saints now ?

Please don't take my word, take the word of scripture. They went to the holy city, or to the same place that has been prepared for us. We live in Christ, so do they.

 

[Selihah]

Oh Isdaniel I hate to break the news to you but I'm not from Judea, I'm a cheesehead from Wisconsin.

 

[Isdaniel]

Please don't take my word, take the word of scripture. They went to the holy city, or to the same place that has been prepared for us. We live in Christ, so do they.

so there are in heaven alraedy so Jesus will be coming back with them from heaven when He comes again ?

 

[Isdaniel]

Oh Isdaniel I hate to break the news to you but I'm not from Judea, I'm a cheesehead from Wisconsin.

Are you a Jew ? they were scattered all over the world