When Jesus died, what kind of saints were resurrected ?

[Yahshua]

LT keeping vows and promises is an entirely different subject. This is a teaching where Jesus says a husband who divorces his wife except for grounds of fornication causes her to be an adultress and goes further on to say that the man who might marry her later is adulterer too! But according to the Torah a divorced women is not considered an adultress and neither is the man who marries her. Im not saying divorce is good or should be taken lightly. But why Jesus would teach something which conflicts with Torah baffles me therefore its something I cannot agree with. But you will only find this witten in the Greek versions. In the Hebrew manuscripts of Matthew Jesus does not teach it.

Ever ask a christian couple husband and or wife if they have been married before, watch their reaction carefully, they have been caught! Ever wonder why the church gets its panties in a wad when a divorced women wants to marry again? Its because of this teaching LT, the church would perceived as condoning an adulteress relationship. According to Torah when a woman is divorced she is 'free agent' and is able remarry without whispering and gossip about being a hussy. Not saying it happens all the time but it does happen. As I said used to be a christian so I speak fro experience

There's a weakness in the translation. The word "cause" does not mean "transform" as in "transforms her into an adultress" but will be the root cause of her committing an act of adultery...this is why the remaining part ("...and whoever shall marry her...") is there. I will admit, this major misunderstanding (from this weak translation and lack of Torah knowledge) has cause many Christians (including my parents) to have a very hard life.

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Firstly, it must be said that Christ said he DID NOT COME to destroy the Torah or prophets, but to "full it to the full". (Deut 4:2 & 12:32).

Matthew 5:31

It hath been said, Whosoever shall put away his wife, let him give her a writing of divorcement (a “get”).

The Prushim (Pharisees) taught that if one was to avoid adultery all one must do is divorce their wife before taking up with another woman, and made rulings on what they deemed "valid" divorces, including: If one finds another woman more beautiful than his current wife, divorce is allowed...and if a man’s wife burns his dinner, he may divorce her (Talmud; Gittin 90a).

However Christ clarified the real issue (i.e. the spirit of the law) with divorce when he says "one has ALREADY committed adultery in his heart" if motives like the above are the reasons for the divorce; one can not divorce for illegitimate reasons. Christ repeats this truth in Mark 10:11-12, where the example is of either party initiating a divorce **(specifically) in order to marry another** is in fact committing adultery, while the new person that party marries is an accomplice in this crime.

A “Get” MUST be presented to the wife regardless of which person initiates the divorce, as *either person* is still allowed to initiate the divorce. The “get” states “you are permitted unto all men”, making the woman single.

However when Christ says in Matt 5:32 “whoever puts away his wife, except for the case of adultery causes her to commit adultery; and whoever marries her that is divorced commits adultery”, he's specifically talking about Leviticus 18:1-30 & 20:10-23: ALL abominable sexual perversions that defile the marriage bed. If the wife has *not* committed any of these acts (i.e. these “evrah” acts) she has not defiled his bed and can not be divorced, so divorcing her will FORCE her (and the new unsuspecting man she may find) in a position of both of them committing adultery...because in God’s eyes she’s still married to the first man, as two have become one flesh. To God, marriage is more than a document recognized by men, it’s a physical & spirit union of two people.

And who has the greater sin, on who stumbles or one who causes another to stumble? It would be better for a cinderblock to be tied around that person's neck and him throne in the sea than to *cause* one of God’s Children to sin.

God honors the heart of the matter (the spirit), not written words (the letter) that men can lawyer and twist to find loopholes (to suit their illegitimate benefit), when it comes to his law.

However, if the wife DOES commit an abominable act (“evrah”; as in all forms of sexual perversion), like adultery - which makes herself unclean - she can be divorced and she’s free. As God also wrote a bill of divorce for Israel & Judah for the same reason.

Jeremiah 3:8

And I saw, when, for this very cause that backsliding Israel had committed adultery, I had put her away and given her a bill of divorcement, yet treacherous Judah her sister feared not; but she also went and played the harlot.

Notice Deuteronomy 24:1 once again:

When a man has taken a wife, and married her, and it comes to pass that she finds no favor in his eyes, ***because he has found some uncleanness in her***; then let him write her a bill of divorcement, and give it in her hand, and send her out of his house.

The operative phrase is “because...uncleanness in her”; she somehow defiled the marriage bed. Two people married are one flesh, so if she defiles herself with sexual perversion and then sleeps with him she defiles him. So in legitimate divorce both she and he are free from the bond, and free to marry another.

To your concern about abuse and serious marriage troubles…

The Torah also sanctions a mutual divorce, which Christ fully recognizes in Mark 10:2-9 as “for hardness of heart” (adding that it’s because of the hardness of people that this was included, but teaching what marriage is really all about: two becoming one). When a man and woman divorce for hardness of heart (which I would suspect includes abuse, etc) they are both single and are no longer married and free from consequences if they happen to marry again, even to each other. The only stipulation is if the divorced woman remarries another...and then divorces that one, or he dies, she can’t remarry her first husband (Deut 24:1-4)...because marriage isn't musical chairs but about two lives becoming one.

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The Prushim were commanded NOT to add to or take away from the commands given, and yet with each “Takanot” and “Ma’asim” codified in their Talmud they have done that over and over and over and over again.

 

[chubbena]

there was a purpose for resurrecting these saints, and that was to make the people believe and be added to the church of God. How would have they recognized the old testament saints, when they have not seen any of them in their whole life??? the raised saints would have to go and tell everyone that they are the old testament saints. Do u think people would have believed them???

But you are right, scripture does not say whether they died recently or whether they are old testament saints.

Where in the scripture said they died again?

 

[Selihah]

Every time someone repeats these truths from scripture, I sort of cringe. It is truth, every bit of it. Yet time after time I read that these truths mean that we must ditch the written law, the written law is ONLY legalistic law, or that Christ did not tell us to obey the law in all ways, even with our love and spirit, but somehow, when they get done explaining it, we can break the written law and put in love instead. So when you add that Jesus was not teaching the Torah, it is going too far. Christ taught the Torah, Christ just went beyond the Torah to explain it as Law that must include love.

Then where in Torah does it state a divorced woman, or the man that might marry her is to be condemned as an adulterer? The church is the one with the legalistic view regarding this teaching. Torah permits a woman to remarry WITHOUT the stigma or guilt of adultery attached. How in blue blazes can anyone accuse woman of adultery when they have no say in the matter of divorce is beyond me.

 

[RedTent]

Then where in Torah does it state a divorced woman, or the man that might marry her is to be condemned as an adulterer? The church is the one with the legalistic view regarding this teaching. Torah permits a woman to remarry WITHOUT the stigma or guilt of adultery attached. How in blue blazes can anyone accuse woman of adultery when they have no say in the matter of divorce is beyond me.

If you would like to discuss what scripture has to say about divorce, please start a thread addressing that issue, don't mix it up with discussing when Jesus died, what kind of saints were resurrected.

 

[iamsoandso]

at the end of first Samuel when Saul went to the soothsayer at endor,,,is Samuel still roaming the earth?,,,or when elijah raised the dead,,,or when Elisha the same and then when they let the body down and touched the body of Elisha,,,are they still roaming the earth? and why did their family members not tell of the jobs they had where are they?,,,,

 

[iamsoandso]

hmm,when a Jew speaks to the Jews the Jews go silent,,,here is a question better left to the Jews,,,at the end of what book and in which scripture did it say that if any removed or added to his words the curse would be accomplished on them? and afterward did we not go unto Assyria?,and Babylon,and Greece as we were told were we not subject to the authority of Rome then scattered through the whole earth?,,,and it was in fulfillment for adding to and removing what?

yet on the other hand at the end of the christian books it states in a book that if they added to or took away from their books the plagues written in them would be poured out on them,,,,,but there has been no plagues poured out on them.,,,,and we say all is in perfect order when in fact the whole earth has witnessed our punishment for not keeping our law in perfect order,,,,,,,

 

[4enlightment]

Scripture does not say these saints recently died. It does not say they were easily recognized by many. God operates in exact ways and says what we are to know, how can you say they recently died?

Most likely they had buried the bones of the men of God in a special place, and which a few people had witness them coming from their graves. That day was the Sabbath, which everyone should of had been in their homes according to the law, but as Peter and rest of the Jesus disciples didn't followed them.




Matt 27:50 And when Jesus had cried out again in a loud voice, he gave up his spirit.
51 At that moment the curtain of the temple was torn in two from top to bottom. The earth shook, the rocks split 52 and the tombs broke open. The bodies of many holy people who had died were raised to life. 53 They came out of the tombs after Jesus’ resurrection and went into the holy city and appeared to many people.

Genesis 50:25
And Joseph made the Israelites swear an oath and said, “God will surely come to your aid, and then you must carry my bones up from this place.”

Exodus 13:19Moses took the bones of Joseph with him because Joseph had made the Israelites swear an oath. He had said, “God will surely come to your aid, and then you must carry my bones up with you from this place.”

Joshua 24:32And Joseph’s bones, which the Israelites had brought up from Egypt, were buried at Shechem in the tract of land that Jacob bought for a hundred pieces of silver from the sons of Hamor, the father of Shechem. This became the inheritance of Joseph’s descendants.

2 Samuel 21:13David brought the bones of Saul and his son Jonathan from there, and the bones of those who had been killed and exposed were gathered up.

2 Samuel 21:14They buried the bones of Saul and his son Jonathan in the tomb of Saul’s father Kish, at Zela in Benjamin, and did everything the king commanded. After that, God answered prayer in behalf of the land.

1 Kings 13:31After burying him, he said to his sons, “When I die, bury me in the grave where the man of God is buried; lay my bones beside his bones.

Job 19:26And after my skin has been destroyed, yet in my flesh I will see God;

Daniel 12:2Multitudes who sleep in the dust of the earth will awake: some to everlasting life, others to shame and everlasting contempt.

John 11:50You do not realize that it is better for you that one man die for the people than that the whole nation perish.”



Matthew 9:11When the Pharisees saw this, they asked his disciples, “Why does your teacher eat with tax collectors and sinners?”

 

[RedTent]

hmm,when a Jew speaks to the Jews the Jews go silent,,,here is a question better left to the Jews,,,at the end of what book and in which scripture did it say that if any removed or added to his words the curse would be accomplished on them? and afterward did we not go unto Assyria?,and Babylon,and Greece as we were told were we not subject to the authority of Rome then scattered through the whole earth?,,,and it was in fulfillment for adding to and removing what?

yet on the other hand at the end of the christian books it states in a book that if they added to or took away from their books the plagues written in them would be poured out on them,,,,,but there has been no plagues poured out on them.,,,,and we say all is in perfect order when in fact the whole earth has witnessed our punishment for not keeping our law in perfect order,,,,,,,

That brings up the question of what people is God the God of? Is part of scripture for Jews, only? I understood that God was equally a God of all, except for a sort of thank you for being a race God used to teach us about Him. Christ was born in a Jewish family in a town of Jews with most of the people spoken of in the gospels Jewish, yet Christ is my savior and I am originally from Norway.

 

[RedTent]

Most likely they had buried the bones of the men of God in a special place, and which a few people had witness them coming from their graves. That day was the Sabbath, which everyone should of had been in their homes according to the law, but as Peter and rest of the Jesus disciples didn't followed them.

I don't believe that our soul is ever buried with our bones, or ever has been. In death we are separated from our physical bodies.

 

[Sanashankar]

Where in the scripture said they died again?

The verse says the "bodies" of the saints which slept,arose. it does not say "they rose to eternal life."

Inorder to be visible to human beings , these saints should have a body with flesh and blood. It is impossible for them to go to heaven with a body like that.

Jn 3:13 And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, [even] the Son of man which is in heaven.

Only Jesus Christ has ascended to heaven so far. That is what the bible says. He is the only one who is raised in a spiritual body.

 

[Isdaniel]

The verse says the "bodies" of the saints which slept,arose. it does not say "they rose to eternal life."

Inorder to be visible to human beings , these saints should have a body with flesh and blood. It is impossible for them to go to heaven with a body like that.

Jn 3:13 And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, [even] the Son of man which is in heaven.

Only Jesus Christ has ascended to heaven so far. That is what the bible says. He is the only one who is raised in a spiritual body.

at what time did they arose and enter the city ?

 

[4enlightment]

I don't believe that our soul is ever buried with our bones, or ever has been. In death we are separated from our physical bodies.

Why did they had brought Joseph bones with them when they had left Egypt?

 

[LT]

Why did they had brought Joseph bones with them when they had left Egypt?

Because it was Joseph's wish for them to do so. It was in his will to be buried with his fathers.

 

[Nick1939]

If old testament saints were resurrected at Jesus' death, how does Jesus have pre-eminence in all things including being raised from the dead? 1 Corinthians 15:20 and Colossians 1:18

 

[Delija]

Of course that our souls aren't buried with our bodies!That would be denying of everything what Bible speaking!

 

[Delija]

God even old testament saints were sinners was in them,as He is in all things and living beings as Creator.Our fallen nature is one and God is in all of us and call us on repentance.
I don't understand your statement well maybe...

 

[Isdaniel]

If old testament saints were resurrected at Jesus' death, how does Jesus have pre-eminence in all things including being raised from the dead? 1 Corinthians 15:20 and Colossians 1:18

Who do you say it was then ?

 

[chubbena]

The verse says the "bodies" of the saints which slept,arose. it does not say "they rose to eternal life."

Inorder to be visible to human beings , these saints should have a body with flesh and blood. It is impossible for them to go to heaven with a body like that.

Jn 3:13 And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, [even] the Son of man which is in heaven.

Only Jesus Christ has ascended to heaven so far. That is what the bible says. He is the only one who is raised in a spiritual body.

But
a. the bible did not record they died again.
b. they didn't have to have a physical body. Yeshua appeared to the disciples not in a physical body.
More questions:
1. where are Moses and Elijah now? Weren't they alive and well with Yeshua on the mountain?
2. Isn't eternal life in new Jerusalem on new earth? What I'm asking is, would anyone go to heaven at all?

 

[Selihah]

If old testament saints were resurrected at Jesus' death, how does Jesus have pre-eminence in all things including being raised from the dead? 1 Corinthians 15:20 and Colossians 1:18

Just an FYI there was recorded another resurection that had taken place long before Jesus too. II Kings 13:21 And it came to pass, as they were burying a man, that, behold, they spied a band of men; and they cast the man into the sepulcher of Elisha; and when the man was let down, and touched the bones of Elisha, he revived, and stood up on his feet.

 

[LT]

But
a. the bible did not record they died again.
b. they didn't have to have a physical body. Yeshua appeared to the disciples not in a physical body.

a. It also does not say they ascended into heaven, or that they are still alive today. Did Lazarus die again?
b. Jesus ate with them after the His Resurrection, and they touched His hands. He had a physical body.