Where Did Our Faith Come From?

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Karlon

Well-known member
Mar 8, 2023
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#41

John 15:5c; Philippians 2:13 Apart from Me you can do nothing. For it is God who works in you
to will and to act on behalf of His good purpose.

Thank you to @Pilgrimshope for the inspiration! I hope you and yours are well .:)
1 of the verses i memorized. neat art again!
 

PennEd

Senior Member
Apr 22, 2013
13,612
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#42
For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God—

Salvation is the gift, not faith.

Calvinism undone.
Beyond redundant, and grammatically incorrect to say the “AND THAT” is referring to Grace or Salvation, and not our faith.

OF COURSE the Grace is a gift! That’s what Grace means. Unmerited favor.

Not to mention all the other Scripture people have posted that says Faith is a gift from God.

If someone’s faith doesn’t come from Gods, then they have reason to boast in themselves.
 
Oct 28, 2024
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#43
He preaches the gospel to all and saves those who believe.
OK, just for example, what about Lydia?
This worshiper of God needed God to intervene in her life
so she would have the ability to believe in Paul's gospel.
 

MeowFlower

Well-known member
Aug 25, 2024
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#44
:D
comma and space!

You are not someone I would normally engage with and I rushed the post, after your diatribe in the "Hatred of the Jews" thread I knew I would have zero to say to you but alas a little bIt of boredom can make one go where one would not go.
Ciao.
Thank you for putting me on ignore. I know you as a hate filledposer who trolls other Christian forums under a different name at each site. However,your toxic posting style remains the same.

And then too you hated those especially who love and defend Israel.

You're right. There is nothing in common between us. Failed grammar Nazis are pathetic.

Thing is, I know you'll read this. You can't help yourself.

Bye. :D
 
Oct 28, 2024
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#45
“So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.” Romans‬ ‭10:17‬ ‭KJV‬‬
Yes, this is a stumbling block to the election doctrine I found in the NT.
However, this problem does not stand alone ...
several major NT doctrines have 2 sides to the story,
e.g. OSAS vs. anti-OSAS.
 

MeowFlower

Well-known member
Aug 25, 2024
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#46
Yes, this is a stumbling block to the election doctrine I found in the NT.
However, this problem does not stand alone ...
several major NT doctrines have 2 sides to the story,
e.g. OSAS vs. anti-OSAS.
It isn't a stumbling block. 1 Corinthians 2 tells us why it is not a stumbling block.
 

Blade

Well-known member
Nov 19, 2019
1,799
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#47
Is it not written that God gives each believer a portion of faith, and that we should exercise our gifts in accordance with that measure. We need to exercise our faith. This is what I mean when I say faith, gifts are not something talked about much. Peter walking on the water. Ever think about that? Well Peter said IF its you.. what else could Christ say but yes :) Then Peter Christs says why did you doubt. The storm christ said you of little faith. This is one of those we are not moved by what we see or hear or feel for we.. we is all that believe in Jesus Christ is the way the truth and the life we walk by faith. Faith with out works is dead.

That weak faith "I know you can but do you want to" and "I believe but help my unbelief". He never once has said no. Then there are those that are not a believer yet have great faith as the solider did saying "I am not worthy that you should come under my roof, but only say the word and my servant shall be healed". So many wonder what their Fathers will is yet read it ever day, they hold on to it and cry with in this words.. yet that book is His will. Are we like that solider where we read what He said and know we just believe not bing moved by what we see or hear because He said it so it will happen. Up + Up "I lift you up and up again.. :) If I get down, You pick me up
From the ground, You give me love, that don't give out, give in no condition, You lift me up and up again, Now, no matter what surrounds
I'll let my hallelujah get loud."

I don't want to pfft. Once Christ looked at Peter and said "Satan get behind me". We know Peter was not Satan but a thought popped into Peters mind and Peter took it. Today were always casting down [refute arguments and theories and reasonings and every proud and lofty thing} imaginations, and every high thing that is exalted against the knowledge of God, and bringing every thought into captivity to the obedience of Christ" A tad cryptic.

Pffft.. reading this thread this comes to mind.... with out faith its impossible to please God for those that come to God must first believe that He is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him. A rewarder.. oh so many miss this. Then our elder brother Paul saying "It is true that some preach Christ out of envy and rivalry, but others out of goodwill. The latter do so out of love, knowing that I am put here for the defense of the gospel. The former preach Christ out of selfish ambition,not sincerely, supposing that they can stir up trouble for me while I am in chains. But what does it matter? The important thing is that in every way, whether from false motives or true, Christ is preached. And because of this I rejoice." Do we really this focus on it meditate on it "but what does it matter? the important thing is that in every way whether from false motives or true Yeshua/Jesus Christ is preached...oh and because of that I rejoice. Its there right infront but some miss it can't see it.

A simple smile from a Christian that within that one tiny moment Christ His peace His joy shined. The one smiling having such an awful day yet the cashier thought she must be a Christian and because of that one tiny smily that cashier got saved that weekend. What matters is.. He saves. What I have learned is haha is He won't debate me, He won't argue with me, He won't ignore me for He always listens.. He will challenge me in a way... OH a song comes to mind again I don't post links but this one a pdf but shows the names and more by Dr Shadrach Meshach Lockridge. Its starts "My King was born King" and keeps going and going. Yeah.. see what did here? RIGHT back to focusing on Him.
http://emmanuel-eastleigh.org/wp-content/uploads/2009/06/thats-my-king-video-transcript.pdf
 

MeowFlower

Well-known member
Aug 25, 2024
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#51
You seem to have a chip on your shoulder...
Not at all.
You charged that I don't know that Adam and Eve could have been the cave dwellers of ancient history. Then you admitted you don't know where they dwelt. You can't rationally charge me being wrong or mistaken when you admit you don't know that because you don't know any more than I do.

Ancient cave dwellers wore animal skins.

What did God cover the nakedness iof Adam and Eve with as he banished them from Eden?



And you seem to be itching for a fight.
You believe the young Earth theory. There are trees older than 6000 years here on this planet.

Many young earth proponents also believe the earth is a disc, or flat. Which is why I asked a follow up question.
 

Dino246

Senior Member
Jun 30, 2015
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#52
Not at all.
You charged that I don't know that Adam and Eve could have been the cave dwellers of ancient history.
I said the first people were garden dwellers, which the Bible says they were. The only evidence you have is distantly circumstantial.

Then you admitted you don't know where they dwelt.
No, I did not.

You can't rationally charge me being wrong or mistaken when you admit you don't know that because you don't know any more than I do.
I can rationally charge you with making an unsubstantiated assertion, for that is what you did.

Ancient cave dwellers wore animal skins.

What did God cover the nakedness iof Adam and Eve with as he banished them from Eden?
Streeeeetch. Similarity of garment materials is not any kind of proof. The cave dwellers most likely lived after the flood.

You believe the young Earth theory. There are trees older than 6000 years here on this planet.
No, there are people who say there are trees older than 6000 years. Big difference.

Many young earth proponents also believe the earth is a disc, or flat. Which is why I asked a follow up question.
If you want to discuss the shape of the Earth, you're welcome to do so in one of the several threads on the topic in the Conspiracy forum.
 

MeowFlower

Well-known member
Aug 25, 2024
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#53
I said the first people were garden dwellers, which the Bible says they were. The only evidence you have is distantly circumstantial.
They weren't garden dwellers after their expulsion from Eden.


No, I did not.
See your post #48.


I can rationally charge you with making an unsubstantiated assertion, for that is what you did.
It wouldn't be rational at all because you are in error.


Streeeeetch. Similarity of garment materials is not any kind of proof. The cave dwellers most likely lived after the flood.
The fossil record does not comport with your theory.
Fossilized bones of early peoples unearthed in Moroco were discovered to be 315,000 years old.


No, there are people who say there are trees older than 6000 years. Big difference.
Ah,you are one who is a conspiracy theorist. One who thinks countless people are lying about Cosmology,Archeology,Biology,Molecular Biology,etc...


If you want to discuss the shape of the Earth, you're welcome to do so in one of the several threads on the topic in the Conspiracy forum.
Not necessary. I know earth isn't flat. Or a mere 6000 years old.

I could explain why.

The history of Judaism,Hebrew culture,the fact the Bhagavad Gita is thousands of years older than the ancient Sumerian culture and their Cuneiform creation epic,The Enuma Elish, from which the Genesis creation epic was derived after the "Jews" were freed from captivity in Babylon, that The Epic of Gilgamesh predates Noah's epic, etc...

It would be a waste of time though.

Someone who comports reality and the history of the earth and cosmology to fit a 6000 year old frame while believing all history to the contrary is to be dismissed as, "people say...." will not be persuaded by the fact aGod is bigger than you think.



BTW, "people say..." God inspired the Bible.


Thank you for your time.
 

Magenta

Senior Member
Jul 3, 2015
61,094
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#54
Did we create our own faith … and then believe in Jesus and the Gospel?
Or, did it come from somewhere else … like from God?

2 Peter 1:1 To those who through the righteousness of our God and Savior Jesus Christ have received a faith as precious as ours: Jude 1:3 contend earnestly for the faith entrusted once for all to the saints. Acts 13:48 all who were appointed for eternal life believed. Acts 16:14 The Lord opened her heart to respond to Paul’s message.
John 6:44 “No one can come to Me unless the Father who sent Me draws him." John 6:37a Everyone the Father gives Me will come to Me. Philippians 1:6 being confident of this, that He Who began a good work in you will carry it on to completion. Philippians 1:29 For it has been granted to you on behalf of Christ not only to believe in Him, but also to suffer for Him. Romans 12:3b think of yourself with sober judgment, according to the measure of faith God has given you. 2 Timothy 2:25b hope that God may grant them repentance leading to a knowledge of the truth. Isaiah 65:1 “I revealed Myself to those who did not
ask for Me; I was found by those who did not seek Me." God foreknew, chose, predestined, and saved us.

Thank you for the inspiration! I hope you and yours are well .:)
 
Apr 7, 2024
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#55
OK, just for example, what about Lydia?
This worshiper of God needed God to intervene in her life
so she would have the ability to believe in Paul's gospel.
I've never considered that before. I'll look at it now...

13 And on the Sabbath day we went out of the city to the riverside, where prayer was customarily made; and we sat down and spoke to the women who met there. 14 Now a certain woman named Lydia heard us. She was a seller of purple from the city of Thyatira, who worshiped God. The Lord opened her heart to heed the things spoken by Paul. 15 And when she and her household were baptized, she begged us, saying, “If you have judged me to be faithful to the Lord, come to my house and stay.” So she persuaded us. (Ac 16:13–15)​

This must be the passage you are referencing. Specifically, you must be considering "The Lord opened her heart" to mean that "the Lord gave her the ability to believe". This seems like a case of projection... making the verse say what you want it to say. How do you get around the fact that Lydia was a worshiper of God before God convinced her to heed the things spoken by Paul? In other words, do you think it is possible to not have the ability to believe but be in awe of God and worship Him as God? This seems to be incongruous to me.
 
Nov 1, 2024
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#56
This must be the passage you are referencing. Specifically, you must be considering "The Lord opened her heart" to mean that "the Lord gave her the ability to believe". This seems like a case of projection... making the verse say what you want it to say. How do you get around the fact that Lydia was a worshiper of God before God convinced her to heed the things spoken by Paul? In other words, do you think it is possible to not have the ability to believe but be in awe of God and worship Him as God? This seems to be incongruous to me.
I guess it's the total inability thing that makes people think humans have no ability to believe in God until he gives them an injection of faith. It is written that all who learn of the father through the spirit of God come to Christ. Lydia most likely knew the voice of God, and when the spirit of God witnessed to her that Paul was speaking the truth (ie, opened her heart) she was persuaded and believed.
 
Apr 7, 2024
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#57
I guess it's the total inability thing that makes people think humans have no ability to believe in God until he gives them an injection of faith. It is written that all who learn of the father through the spirit of God come to Christ. Lydia most likely knew the voice of God, and when the spirit of God witnessed to her that Paul was speaking the truth (ie, opened her heart) she was persuaded and believed.
John 6:45 is one of my favorite verses.

It is written in the prophets, ‘And they shall all be taught by God.’ Therefore everyone who has heard and learned from the Father comes to Me. (Jn 6:45)​

God is involved in every salvation experience. He personally teaches people that they are sinners in need of a Savior and that Jesus is that Savior. Everyone who hears Him and learns from Him goes to Jesus for the salvation they need.

Romans 1:18-21 makes it clear that lost people will not be able to claim that they erred unknowingly because " what may be known of God is manifest in them, for God has shown it to them". In fact, is says they knew God and chose to reject Him...

18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who suppress the truth in unrighteousness, 19 because what may be known of God is manifest in them, for God has shown it to them. 20 For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even His eternal power and Godhead, so that they are without excuse, 21 because, although they knew God, they did not glorify Him as God, nor were thankful, but became futile in their thoughts, and their foolish hearts were darkened. (Ro 1:18–21)​

These verses give us insight into God's interractions with mankind. He is drawing people to Himself, and those who respond positively He saves.
 
Oct 28, 2024
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#58
I guess it's the total inability thing that makes people think humans have no ability to believe in God until he gives them an injection of faith. It is written that all who learn of the father through the spirit of God come to Christ. Lydia most likely knew the voice of God, and when the spirit of God witnessed to her that Paul was speaking the truth (ie, opened her heart) she was persuaded and believed.
Yes, it's all about what the Spirit of God does (and to whom)!
 
Oct 28, 2024
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#59
God opens people’s eyes

“But God has opened the eyes of those called to salvation,
both Jews and Gentiles, to see that Christ is the mighty power
of God to save them …” (1 Corinthians 1:24, Living Bible)
The translators stand against Arminian theology …
when they write that God opens the eyes of those who are “called”.


God alone saves

“God has chosen a plan despised by the world, counted as nothing at all
… so that no one anywhere can ever brag in the presence of God.
For it is from God alone that you have your life through Christ Jesus
… As it says in the Scriptures, “If anyone is going to boast, let him boast
only of what the Lord has done.” (1 Corinthians 1:28-31, Living Bible)
The translators stand against Arminian theology …
when they write that God alone is responsible for one’s salvation!


But, it is God’s mercy and grace (unmerited favor)
that is the underlying reason for all of it.
 
Oct 28, 2024
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#60
Usually, I present my case with solid NT verses, but here I will relay
a very personal experience (which, I believe, is in line with the NT).


On November 28, 2024, at about 3 am, the Lord reminded me
of a tremendous experience I had in the Fall of 2012 …


I was evangelizing in Eastern Europe when my wife was having all
kinds of problems at home, and it was obvious that she needed me!
I immediately flew home … and a week later, my sister phoned to say:
our father was on his death bed and I should come immediately!

So, I flew to Toronto, took the 3-hour bus ride to my parents’ home,
arriving late that night. The following morning, I was alone with
my father in his private room at the hospital. As far as I can recall,
he was barely coherent … so we really couldn’t converse much at all.
I must have felt led to clear all demons out of the room … while I praised
the Lord for dying for us on the Cross to save us from going to hell, etc.
That evening my father died with most of our family at his bedside.

I believe it was 2 days later when my wife called to say:
the Lord told her that my father was in heaven!
We believed (and still do) that this was because of my time with him.

IMO, this was a case of God electing a person for salvation
and making sure that His will was accomplished.
Surely, the Lord confirmed to my father that what I was saying was true!


Also, I believe this experience ties in with the parable of the 4 soils.
Re: the first soil,
”When they hear, Satan comes immediately
and takes away the word that was sown in their hearts.” (Mark 4:15)

In our case, Satan was NOT able to interfere with the Truth I was sharing.

“The faith I speak of is the kind that Jesus Christ
our God and Savior gives to us.” (2 Peter 1:1)


“… and all who were chosen for eternal life became believers.” (Acts 13:48)