where is heaven,the place where the tree of life is and the God of all creation lives

[Tintin]

Ahh presumptions are now what? Fact? Where does the Lord dwell? Was He not deweling in the temple with His people? The earth is His footstool is what I read where I put my feet my body is surely not far away.

It's a very good presumption. If the garden of Eden is on earth in our physical realm and there's a global Flood in our physical realm that kills every living thing and does great violence to the earth, then by way of inference, I think it's safe to say that the garden of Eden is no more.

 

[un2him]

God in His kindness uses earthly things to help us get a hint at the reality of the realm He inhabits. "My kingdom is not of this realm."

I like that yes us earthlings sure need to make many words from a beautiful picture our Lord has given us.

 

[pwrnJC]

Tintin...just the other day, I was looking at a large flat map of the world and then it struck me! The continents fit like a puzzle. It is so easy to see how they were joined at one time. This of course was pre-Flood. GOD definitely had a plan in mind! I would not go so far as to claim that the Garden of Eden is no more, as far as the finite perimeters that existed. We still find shells on high mountain tops, which only means that the foundations change, but not the fact that certain areas are still there, they may have just been elevated or sunken. People used to say "Cleopatra's temple is no more". However, it was discovered underwater in the harbor of modern day Alexandria.

 

[un2him]

Yes, and in Ezekiel 47 the tree of life and God's River are shown to be literal things established upon the earth in the future.

This is probably one of the most difficult types of understanding in God's Word that brethren grapple with, i.e., distinguishing the differences between the two different dimensions of reality, the heavenly vs. the earthly, and then also their similarities.

Because God existed eternally PRIOR to His creating the universe and material matter through His Son, then which reality does that show is the more REAL?

We know per John 4 that "God is a Spirit". And since Hebrews 11:3 reveals that the things of this earthly that we see (i.e., material matter) were not created of things made (i.e., that material matter), then it means the earthly dimension was created by and from Spirit, God's Spirit.

Man's science with all its great studies and experiments is still limited to the bounds of this earthly dimension which God created. That includes this earth, the heavenly skies, the planets and stars, the whole seen universe.

So since the material universe was created by the dimension of God's Spirit, it means the world of Spirit is actually the greater reality, and as written in Rev.4:11, He created all things for His pleasure. Per Isaiah 45:18, He created this earth for His children to live upon.

So if Spirit created the earthly dimension, then couldn't God's Spirit live upon His Own creation? Yes, definitely. And that is what our hope is, as also the hope of His creation we await at the manifesting of the sons of God (Rom.8).

Just read again your last paragraph. Is it only a hope for you that God's Spirit might live and move and have His being in you?

 

[Word_Swordsman]

Ahh presumptions are now what? Fact? Where does the Lord dwell? Was He not deweling in the temple with His people? The earth is His footstool is what I read where I put my feet my body is surely not far away.

Acts 7: 47 But Solomon built him an house.
48 Howbeit the most High dwelleth not in temples made with hands; as saith the prophet,
49 Heaven is my throne, and earth is my footstool: what house will ye build me? saith the Lord: or what is the place of my rest?
50 Hath not my hand made all these things?

Yes, earth is his footstool, but his throne and dwelling is in Heaven.

 

[Word_Swordsman]

Tintin...just the other day, I was looking at a large flat map of the world and then it struck me! The continents fit like a puzzle. It is so easy to see how they were joined at one time. This of course was pre-Flood. GOD definitely had a plan in mind! I would not go so far as to claim that the Garden of Eden is no more, as far as the finite perimeters that existed. We still find shells on high mountain tops, which only means that the foundations change, but not the fact that certain areas are still there, they may have just been elevated or sunken. People used to say "Cleopatra's temple is no more". However, it was discovered underwater in the harbor of modern day Alexandria.

Look up the ancient supercontinent Pangaea theory. http://geology.com/articles/supercontinent.shtml

 

[un2him]

Acts 7: 47 But Solomon built him an house.
48 Howbeit the most High dwelleth not in temples made with hands; as saith the prophet,
49 Heaven is my throne, and earth is my footstool: what house will ye build me? saith the Lord: or what is the place of my rest?
50 Hath not my hand made all these things?

Yes, earth is his footstool, but his throne and dwelling is in Heaven.

Yes nice with Scripture! What does abide mean? When Jesus says the Father abides in me and I in him for if you have seen me you have seen the Father. And who is is it who was sent to live in us? Is this not God? can you now say Jesus was lying?

 

[DP]

Yes I do love Isa and some believe as you they have not been fulfilled. I tend to believe scripture has been written and fulfilled just as He has reviled it would be.

It's the other way around friend, 'some' believe all Scripture has been fulfilled when it has not. The majority of brethren in Christ do not have your outlook on what has been finished and what has not.

 

[sassylady]

The Jewish sages believe it was on the land where Jerusalem is. Makes sense.

 

[un2him]

It's the other way around friend, 'some' believe all Scripture has been fulfilled when it has not. The majority of brethren in Christ do not have your outlook on what has been finished and what has not.

yes your right many do believe as you do and few as I sorry. I know the abide question even troubled the disciples but if we really grasp whaat we have been given we would worry far less about Jesus returning and reveal this Great Glory inside and do the work of the kingdom.

 

[GodIsSalvation]

This an interesting topic. Lots of interesting topics on the forum lately, praise Jesus for you all and your good thoughts and ponderings.

In regards to the OP. I thought the heavens were simply the sky, outer space, and whatever is beyond what we call outer space. Genesis 1 I suppose be the reference.

As for garden of Eden, idk, it's a strange thought I been thinking lately reading through Ezekiel on another topic with ya'll. Been pondering that the garden of Eden is earth, that we're still technically in the garden. It's a kinda hard one to explain for me, just a thought I been having lately.

By all means chop it up and grill it as much as you like. I just like that we all been having good times lately and good discussion, I feel a lot more love here on CC lately like we all getting to know each other better. Praise Jesus for ya'll may you all be loved.

 

[Zmouth]

Yes nice with Scripture! What does abide mean? When Jesus says the Father abides in me and I in him for if you have seen me you have seen the Father. And who is is it who was sent to live in us? Is this not God? can you now say Jesus was lying?

You mean the Holy Ghost who is our heavenly Father is the Son of the eternal God? Well I guess if it is written that no man cometh to the Word except the Father draws them then obviously as written in Luke 10:22, "....and no man knoweth who the Son is, but the Father; and who the Father is, but the Son, and he to whom the Son will reveal him. And no man cometh to the Father except but by the Word.

 

[Tintin]

Tintin...just the other day, I was looking at a large flat map of the world and then it struck me! The continents fit like a puzzle. It is so easy to see how they were joined at one time. This of course was pre-Flood. GOD definitely had a plan in mind! I would not go so far as to claim that the Garden of Eden is no more, as far as the finite perimeters that existed. We still find shells on high mountain tops, which only means that the foundations change, but not the fact that certain areas are still there, they may have just been elevated or sunken. People used to say "Cleopatra's temple is no more". However, it was discovered underwater in the harbor of modern day Alexandria.

Yes, the continents really do fit together like a puzzle! As for me saying the garden of Eden is no more, I mean it's no longer visible to us. A good percentage of the pre-Flood land could just be on the ocean floor. That could include the garden of Eden.

 

[Tintin]

Look up the ancient supercontinent Pangaea theory. http://geology.com/articles/supercontinent.shtml

Rodina may have preceded Pangaea. Here's a really interesting article about Noah's pre-Flood world and the Great Flood devastating impact.

https://answersingenesis.org/geology/plate-tectonics/noahs-lost-world/

 

[DP]

yes your right many do believe as you do and few as I sorry. I know the abide question even troubled the disciples but if we really grasp whaat we have been given we would worry far less about Jesus returning and reveal this Great Glory inside and do the work of the kingdom.

Who is worrying about Jesus' coming? certainly not I, for I welcome... and stand in hope... for His coming. It's the wicked that don't believe He is coming, it's they that should be worrying.

 

[DP]

This an interesting topic. Lots of interesting topics on the forum lately, praise Jesus for you all and your good thoughts and ponderings.

In regards to the OP. I thought the heavens were simply the sky, outer space, and whatever is beyond what we call outer space. Genesis 1 I suppose be the reference.

As for garden of Eden, idk, it's a strange thought I been thinking lately reading through Ezekiel on another topic with ya'll. Been pondering that the garden of Eden is earth, that we're still technically in the garden. It's a kinda hard one to explain for me, just a thought I been having lately.

By all means chop it up and grill it as much as you like. I just like that we all been having good times lately and good discussion, I feel a lot more love here on CC lately like we all getting to know each other better. Praise Jesus for ya'll may you all be loved.

If you look in the Hebrew of Gen.1:1, you'll find that "heaven" is actually plural. Based on Hebrews 11:3, the firmament (sky) is one heaven which is material matter, likewise as the planets, stars, and universe are material matter too. All those parts of God's creation is part of this material dimension, the one we live in. But the other heaven is where His Abode is, and it is a spiritual dimension.

Like our Lord Jesus showed in John 3, that which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of Spirit is spirit. Just as flesh and spirit are two distinct operations different from each other, so likewise is the material dimension and the heavenly or spiritual dimension two distinctly different operations from each other. God's Word also shows both dimensions can co-exist with each other in the same time and space.

 

[Kaycie]

It's completely spiritual, God is going to destroy all physicallity.

 

[Magenta]

....

​

 

[Tintin]

It's completely spiritual, God is going to destroy all physicallity.

Once again, you have some strange non-biblical ideas about Heaven, because that's a very gnostic understanding and there's no place for such things.

 

[DP]

Just read again your last paragraph. Is it only a hope for you that God's Spirit might live and move and have His being in you?

My last paragraph I was speaking in relation to what Apostle Paul taught in Romans 8 about the future glory that shall be revealed in us. Paul showed that future glory cannot be compared to the sufferings of today's world, and by that he specifically showed how even God's creation which He placed in a state of bondage to vanity, also seeks that future time of glory.

Rom 8:18-25
18 For I reckon that the sufferings of this present time are not worthy to be compared with the glory which shall be revealed in us.

Even though believers in Christ Jesus are already today called "sons of God" per Rom.8 and 1 John 3, that Scripture shows the final manifestation of that state is still yet to occur in the world to come:

1 John 3:2
2 Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when He shall appear, we shall be like Him; for we shall see Him as He is.
KJV


Our future appearing per that is about the resurrection body, i.e., the "spiritual body" type which Apostle Paul taught in 1 Corinthians 15 and 2 Corinthians 5. It is not the same type of body we have today in this present world, though it has the appearance of flesh, and can live upon this earth. That's why John is saying there, that today it doesn't appear what we shall be, but at Jesus' second coming we are going to be changed. Paul taught this change also in 1 Corinthians 15 on the "last trump". The Isaiah 25 reference to it shows that change to the resurrection body type will occur for all nations and peoples on the earth, not just those in Christ Jesus. The "vail" removed per Isaiah 25 is about the veil over our present material dimension that hides the heavenly dimension being removed.

Rom.8:19-25
19 For the earnest expectation of the creature waiteth for the manifestation of the sons of God.
20 For the creature was made subject to vanity, not willingly, but by reason of Him Who hath subjected the same in hope,

That word "creature" in the Greek is the same word for "creation" mentioned later. It's about God's whole creation. Just as we, God's children, have been subjected to vanity in this present world through flesh, which gets sick, dies, feels pain, basically showing a state of imperfection, God subjected His creation also in that vanity and bondage of imperfection, as His creation also seeks a release from today's state of vanity. This subject is very... profound and involves a mystery, which is why many brethren struggle with this section of Romans 8 by Apostle Paul.

Think about the creation for a moment. Is it really in a state today how God intended? Because Paul said God subjected His creation to vanity in hope (i.e., a hope of release from it), that shows the creation today is not in a state how God intends. He has a better plan for His creation in the future, in the time of the manifesting of the sons of God, i.e., in a perfect body that won't die, won't get sick, doesn't feel hot or cold nor pain, and is an everlasting eternal state living on this earth with Him.

Truly today, God's creation is still very, very beautiful in many parts of the earth. Even wonders like the Grand Canyon we deem as beautiful, and the desert in bloom is very beautiful, though both are pretty much a barren wasteland and mostly uninhabitable to man. That will change, as even in Isaiah 35 we are shown how the desert shall rejoice, and blossom as the rose, even with the glory of Lebanon given to it (i.e, Lebanon was famous for its glorious cedar trees). This also is why God showed us in Isaiah 11 that the cow and the bear will feed together, and the lion shall eat straw like an ox. Even the little child will place its hand on the hole of the asp (snake) and not be harmed. Do we see those kind of things happening in today's world? No. Yet with these type of future events scattered throughout the OT prophets, He has shown some of how the world to come will be about His perfect creation. Likewise it will be with the manifesting of the sons of God.


21 Because the creature itself also shall be delivered from the bondage of corruption into the glorious liberty of the children of God.
22 For we know that the whole creation groaneth and travaileth in pain together until now.
23 And not only they, but ourselves also, which have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, waiting for the adoption, to wit, the redemption of our body.

For this reason, of God having placed His creation in a state of bondage for this present world, it groans and travails in pain, and in hope for the release to the perfect state in the world to come, waiting along with us for the redemption of our body. Just what body of ours is that? Our spiritual body.


24 For we are saved by hope: but hope that is seen is not hope: for what a man seeth, why doth he yet hope for?
25 But if we hope for that we see not, then do we with patience wait for it.
KJV

Those in Christ Jesus have this hope, even in their soul, but if we saw it manifest already then that is no longer a hope for it, because what we already can see manifested why would a man still be in hope for it? But to have hope for what has not yet manifested, then in patience we wait for it to come.