Where was Jesus for the three days between his death and resurrection?

[Magenta]

i am not so sure that other parables do not illustrate real people and real events - kinda suspect they do, so whether we call this a parable or not ((with all the connotation that word brings)) doesn't seem to me to be quite so material to how we understand it.

the main issue i take with dismissing the worldview clearly presented in Luke 16 is that Christ does not use lies in order to teach truth.

I did not say other parables did not illustrate real life events...

What I did say was that it need not be taken literally... people who are dead and buried and rotted
to dust have returned to the elements of the earth and are not having conversations with each other.

Scripture uses many literary devices in its writings and none of them make any
of what is said a lie whether it is hyperbole or poetry or apocalyptic language.

 

[posthuman]

I did not say other parables did not illustrate real life events...

What I did say was that it need not be taken literally... people who are dead and buried and rotted
to dust have returned to the elements of the earth and are not having conversations with each other.

i know - just explaining i don't think debating whether this is a parable or not really matters overall. that comment was maybe for @Nehemiah6 more than for you..

What really matters, i think, is whether Jesus is presenting something accurate & plausible or something pagan & completely impossible.

i have an hard time accepting that He is presenting a false, demonic worldview here; He says it all as He says all things, as though it is perfectly true.

 

[Magenta]

i know - just explaining i don't think debating whether this is a parable or not really matters overall. that comment was maybe for @Nehemiah6 more than for you..

What really matters, i think, is whether Jesus is presenting something accurate & plausible or something pagan & completely impossible.

i have an hard time accepting that He is presenting a false, demonic worldview here; He says it all as He says all things, as though it is perfectly true.

Like people are sleeping when they are dead? He said that more than once... Yet people reject it outright.

Then they want us to believe conversations are being had in Sheol.

 

[posthuman]

Like people are sleeping when they are dead?

He doesn't seem to have the same view of physical death as people do. He says things like Lazarus and the little girl in Mark 5 are only sleeping, that all are alive to God, and... well Moses is there talking with Him at the transfiguration but Moses absolutely has physically died. He says there are two deaths, and that destroying the body doesn't destroy the soul.

i don't say i understand all this, but i will say i understand that my physical body expiring certainly isn't the end of me - 'me' is something beyond the flesh i'm localized in.

that notion is very clearly represented in Luke 16: the rich man Lazarus and Abraham very much continue to exist. i don't understand why Jesus would be talking about dead people as though they continue to exist and have consciousness if it's absolute pagan rubbish.

 

[posthuman]

Then they want us to believe conversations are being had in Sheol.

well Jesus describes it happening.
so i can see why people believe it.

if it's impossible, i have to sort out why He taught as though it isn't.

 

[Magenta]

He doesn't seem to have the same view of physical death as people do. He says things like Lazarus and the little girl in Mark 5 are only sleeping, that all are alive to God, and... well Moses is there talking with Him at the transfiguration but Moses absolutely has physically died. He says there are two deaths, and that destroying the body doesn't destroy the soul.

i don't say i understand all this, but i will say i understand that my physical body expiring certainly isn't the end of me - 'me' is something beyond the flesh i'm localized in.

that notion is very clearly represented in Luke 16: the rich man Lazarus and Abraham very much continue to exist. i don't understand why Jesus would be talking about dead people as though they continue to exist and gave consciousness if it's absolute pagan rubbish.

I have never said people do not continue to exist post death. What I have said is their bodies
have rotted away to nothing, and they are not having conversations in the grave with each other.
The physical aspects that comprised them exist no more as they were. No mouth. No tongue. No vocal chords.

The transfiguration was a vision. The word used is

3705. horama
Strong's Concordance
horama: that which is seen
Original Word: ὅραμα, ατος, τό
Part of Speech: Noun, Neuter
Transliteration: horama
Phonetic Spelling: (hor'-am-ah)
Definition: that which is seen
Usage: a spectacle, vision, that which is seen.
HELPS Word-studies

Cognate: 3705 hórama (a neuter noun derived from 3708 /horáō, "to see, spiritual and mentally") – a vision
(spiritual seeing), focusing on the impact it has on the one beholding the vision (spiritual seeing). See 3708 (horaō).

 

[Magenta]

well Jesus describes it happening.
so i can see why people believe it.

if it's impossible, i have to sort out why He taught as though it isn't.

But you do not believe people sleep in death. Sleeping people don't have conversations with each other either.

It can be believed without believing it is LITERAL.

What is to be believed is the importance of choosing life while one lives, and that is by God only.

Once one is dead it is too late to choose. People die every day having made the wrong choices.

All of Scriptures testify that God is the source of life. The author, the giver, the sustainer.

 

[Magenta]

He doesn't seem to have the same view of physical death as people do.

You mean as some people do. I believe people exist after death, but not physically. Their body rots. The
spirit returns to God. They sleep, just as Jesus says, though some deny this. I have been told that "sleep"
is a metaphor for watchful, wakeful awareness. How ridiculous is that? I realize there are a gazillion nuances
in how we differ in what we believe, but when I am told things like sleep means being awake, I cannot help
thinking it just preposterous and beyond the pale. No word is used as a metaphor for its opposite meaning.

 

[know1]

If you read luke 23:42-43 it talks about the thief beside Jesus being crucified. This thief ask for forgiveness and Jesus says "today" you will be with me in paradise.

This means Jesus went to heaven after he died on the cross.

Jesus said he would be three days and three nights in the belly of the earth even as Jonah died and was in the belly of a fish for 3 days and three nights.
And then when Jesus rose from the dead, after the three days and three nights, he said to Mary, "touch me not, for I have not yet ascended to my Father".
Which means, Paradise was in the belly of the Earth, even as Jesus told the story concerning Lazarus and the rich man. That there was a gulf between the wicked and the righteous and they couldn't pass from one side to the other. The side Lazarus and Abraham was on, was called Paradise. And that is where the righteous went before Jesus ascended.

 

[TheDivineWatermark]

even as Jonah died and was in the belly of a fish for 3 days and three nights.

Jonah "prayed" while in the belly of the fish. I'm not thinking this means he was praying after death... but what say you? :


Jonah 1:17 - 2:7 -

Jonah 1:17 Now the LORD had prepared a great fish to swallow up Jonah. And Jonah was in the belly of the fish three days and three nights.

2:1 Then Jonah prayed unto the LORD his God out of the fish's belly,

2 And said, I cried by reason of mine affliction unto the LORD, and he heard me; out of the belly of hell [/Sheol] cried I, and thou heardest my voice.

3 For thou hadst cast me into the deep, in the midst of the seas; and the floods compassed me about: all thy billows and thy waves passed over me.

4 Then I said, I am cast out of thy sight; yet I will look again toward thy holy temple.

5 The waters compassed me about, even to the soul: the depth closed me round about, the weeds were wrapped about my head.

6 I went down to the bottoms of the mountains; the earth with her bars was about me for ever: yet hast thou brought up my life from corruption, O LORD my God.

7 When my soul fainted within me I remembered the LORD: and my prayer came in unto thee, into thine holy temple.







Matthew 12:40 - "For as [hosper - 'exactly like'] Jonas was three days and three nights in the whale's belly; so shall the Son of man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth."

 

[Nehemiah6]

I am not surprised, either, that you see no spiritual truth in this parable.

Parables ILLUSTRATE spiritual truths. Narratives PRESENT spiritual truths. But since you are in bondage to false teachings you cannot see the difference. The NARRATIVE of the Rich Man and Lazarus presents several very solemn spiritual truths. So what you should do is chuck out your false beliefs and get to the heart of the matter. Abraham actually speaks to the Rich Man in this narrative and it is a very serious and solemn address.

 

[Magenta]

Parables ILLUSTRATE spiritual truths. Narratives PRESENT spiritual truths. But since you are in bondage to false teachings you cannot see the difference. The NARRATIVE of the Rich Man and Lazarus presents several very solemn spiritual truths. So what you should do is chuck out your false beliefs and get to the heart of the matter. Abraham actually speaks to the Rich Man in this narrative and it is a very serious and solemn address.

Nothing quite like contradicting yourself just to lord it over others, eh?

parables ILLUSTRATE spiritual truths and what is this narrative supposed to illustrate?

Let me know when you chuck out all your false beliefs and narratives.

In the meantime, you can stop falsely accusing people, or you will surely
become known as belonging to him who is the accuser of the brethren.

There was no "Soul Sleep" six feet under the surface of the earth.

You deny the very words of Jesus Christ. Shame on you.

 

[Nehemiah6]

Parables ILLUSTRATE spiritual truths. Narratives PRESENT spiritual truths. But since you are in bondage to false teachings you cannot see the difference. The NARRATIVE of the Rich Man and Lazarus presents several very solemn spiritual truths. So what you should do is chuck out your false beliefs and get to the heart of the matter. Abraham actually speaks to the Rich Man in this narrative and it is a very serious and solemn address.

There is nothing funny in what I stated. That situation was extremely serious. So a funny emoji is about as inappropriate as laughing and joking at a funeral!

 

[Magenta]

There is nothing funny in what I stated. That situation was extremely serious. So a funny emoji is about as inappropriate as laughing and joking at a funeral!

It's funny when you say things like sleep is a metaphor for watchful, wakeful awareness...

Funny in that peculiar, ridiculous sort of way. Beyond the pale, really.

 

[Magenta]

That situation was extremely serious

Yes, it is very serious when a man whom I have found to be in error and proven
to you multiple times attempts to set himself up as my teacher. Stop the pretense.

 

[Mem]

Yes, it is very serious when a man whom I have found to be in error and proven
to you multiple times attempts to set himself up as my teacher. Stop the pretense.

Sis, go easy on him. Though I myself find it to be quite creepy, the idea of people being a wakeful in death must be some sort of security blanket to stave off the fear of it, or else so many wouldn't hold onto it so tightly. The truth comforts me, but there are those that take comfort in the deception, unfortunately.

 

[EternalFire]

I skipped ahead a bit (I don't need to listen to their small talk) and got to where they begin talking about
where the ideas of hell originated. I did find it interesting because they talk about the fear of death, and
how pervasive it is, which as some of you may know, others here have claimed that death is nothing to
fear, which is antithetical to Scripture truth: Scripture identifies fear of death as the reason for man's bondage
to sin. The hell many describe comes largely from fiction, more specifically, Dante's Inferno from The Divine
Comedy, and William Blake paintings. Nothing like that is described in the Bible. In 1824, British landscape
painter John Linell commissioned the poet and artist William Blake to illustrate the Divine Comedy, a
fourteenth-century epic poem by Dante Alighieri. Though they were painted five centuries after the poem
was written, Blake’s one hundred and two water color illustrations resonated well with Dante’s secular and
spiritual ideas of a subsiding society and a soul’s journey through hell. (<= not in the video as far as I know)

Great points!

Ehrman does mention Dante around 32:05.

Historically speaking, Bart does a nice job in the video of describing how these ways of thinking developed.

A good summary is provided starting at 28:15.

“Plato and in Greek philosophy emphasized that the soul lives forever even though the body dies. Most of the converts to Christianity, already in the first century, that’s what they thought. It’s how they were raised. It made sense to them. Your soul lives on after your body. Obviously, your body doesn’t live forever; that’s crazy. Your soul lives on forever. And Plato argued this in a number of his dialogues and it was the popular view.”

To hear about the immortality of the soul from a Christian, check out this informative video.

 

[Magenta]

Great points!

Ehrman does mention Dante around 32:05.

Historically speaking, Bart does a nice job in the video of describing how these ways of thinking developed.

A good summary is provided starting at 28:15.

“Plato and in Greek philosophy emphasized that the soul lives forever even though the body dies. Most of the converts to Christianity, already in the first century, that’s what they thought. It’s how they were raised. It made sense to them. Your soul lives on after your body. Obviously, your body doesn’t live forever; that’s crazy. Your soul lives on forever. And Plato argued this in a number of his dialogues and it was the popular view.”

To hear about the immortality of the soul from a Christian, check out this informative video.

Heh, I certainly did not listen that far in .. But I will give this one a bit of a listen .. Thank you! .

I can see before I even start that I disagree with at least some of what they are putting forth.

(Oh! That is in the Bart video...)

The "soul" survives the first death is something I accept, yes. The second death? No.

People try to claim "God alone is immortal" simply means He does not have a physical body that can
die, but as far as I am concerned, they say such things to try to disguise the fact that they are outright
contradicting Scripture to claim the soul of man does nor and/or cannot die, as if it were beyond God's
power to destroy both body and soul, just as Scripture warns, in the words of Jesus no less. Scripture
explicitly states that the wicked will be no more, that they perish, they are destroyed to the uttermost,
but... no, explicitly stated truths do not convince those whose minds are made up otherwise. Instead
they perpetuate the lie of Satan at the heart of the fall of man and corruption of all creation.

 

[Magenta]

He's funny. I like it already .. Reassignment .. @EternalFire

 

[Underwhosewings]

Yes. But it is NOT called a parable. And why would it be a parable since parables ILLUSTRATE spiritual truths and what is this narrative supposed to illustrate? So once again you are trying to promote your FALSE DOCTRINES by denying the reality of Sheol/Hades.

All souls and spirits went to Sheol/Hades "in the heart of the earth" or "in the lower parts of the earth" until the resurrection of Christ. This was the abode of both the righteous and the unrighteous dead. There was no "Soul Sleep" six feet under the surface of the earth. These souls and spirits were very much alive as we see in the narrative of the Rich Man and Lazarus. But when Christ rose from the dead those in "Abraham's Bosom" (the righteous dead) were taken to Heaven by Christ. But before His resurrection He Himself was in Sheol/Hades for three days and three nights, preaching or proclaiming to the spirits in prison.

AMEN.

But If we are absent from the body now, we will be present with the Lord.
As His redeemed child.

2 Corinthians 5:8 KJV
We are confident, I say, and willing rather to be absent from the body, and to be present with the Lord.