Ok, do you believe the Bible you read is true, every word? There can't be more than one version that is true. If one version is the word of God, then the others are not.
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Ok, do you believe the Bible you read is true, every word? There can't be more than one version that is true. If one version is the word of God, then the others are not.
yeah only by "Bible" you mean "KJV"--you don't even mean the Greek & Hebrew, right?
and you don't consider anything other than the KJV to be a "Bible" at all?
((because if you two would admit that the word in the original languages is the truth, you would be -- excuse me, 'should be' -- forced to concede that improvement in translation is also the truth, and that there are places where the KJV simply has the translation wrong))
case in point.
you just painted yourself into suggesting that the scriptures written in Hebrew, Aramaic and Greek are not true -- since they are a different "version" than the KJV.
right?
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LaurenTM
Guest
did Jesus speak and appear at the court of King James? no?
well then he must have been speaking possibly Aramaic or something beside the Sea of Galilee
Jesus said that He was the Truth...what does that mean to you?
This is typical comment of a cult member. Put all the blame on the people who do not agree. The cult member then declares that the cult is right, calm and just, where as everyone else who opposes is wild, rabid, deluded and following a false spirit.
A cult member will never concede or be swayed by anything, this is even down to the definition of Bible. For most people a Bible is a bible, be it Good News, RSV, NIV and etc. However in the KIng James Only Cult, the definition of a Bible is King James Bible. So when they say They beleive every word of the Bible, its they believe every word of the King James. This can be very confusing for people as a statement "We believe every word of the Bible is true" is something that all Christians believe.
Superiority complex is also another cult trait and very visable in the King James Only Cult when they claim Holy Spirit for themselves. Strange how there are plenty of mature Christians doing great work for God who have not been told this by Holy SPiirt. If it was so important for all English speaking Christians to read King James, then wouldn't the Holy SPirit tell more people such as myslef?
When this is pointed out to a cult member, they will simply say things such as that you are just a baby in Christ still, you need to be more mature for God to point out this enlightened revelation, or even going further and claiming that people are not genuine believers because if they were then Holy Spirit would tell them.
This is a disgusting cult that should be avoided. King James Onlyism is not healthy.
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LaurenTM
Guest
Wait a minute...do we have the originals? If God has preserved His originals, then where are they? Let me at them. I need them.
You believe every word of the Bible? Really? Every word is true? Which one since they all have different words and in most cases different doctrines. By changing one word, entire doctrines can and has changed.
you wouldn't like them; they aren't in Elizabethtan English
lol
do you doubt the accuracy of the copies we do have?
Which ones? The Egypt and Vatican texts or the Received texts from Antioch known as the Textus Receptus?
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CharlieGrown
Guest
Two thoughts:
1. KJV is only bible to my knowledge that is NOT copyrighted.
2. KJV version has a 3rd grade reading comprehension, all other versions due to the added by subtraction ambiguity contribute to more confusion and land around the 5th grade and up reading comprehension.
1. KJV is only bible to my knowledge that is NOT copyrighted.
2. KJV version has a 3rd grade reading comprehension, all other versions due to the added by subtraction ambiguity contribute to more confusion and land around the 5th grade and up reading comprehension.
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Tintin
Guest
1. That's only because the KJV is 400+ years old. Copyright doesn't last that long. (Not a good argument for the KJV)
2. The KJV does not have a 3rd grade reading level of comprehension. It's more in the realms of a grade 10 or 12 reading level. And it's significantly more difficult to read and understand than more modern translations, not just because of archaic words, but also because many of the sentence structures are back to front or inside out. (Another terrible argument for the KJV).
There is no perfect copy apart from the very first. It is good that we have so many translations so that we can compare and spot the deliberate changes.
My 2 cents worth in this discussion is this. The bible/scriptures is NOT God no matter what translation it is.
The bible/scriptures is a tool the Lord uses to speak words of Christ to us. The end goal is NOT the bible/scriptures but Christ Himself. The real scriptures have been written down and many copies made of them as any search about manuscripts will reveal.
It is always words of Christ that are spoken that bring life. Take when Cornelius had an angel appear to him to tell him to send for Peter who will "tell you words". Notice the angel did not say "sent for Peter so that he will bring you scriptures - a bible and definitely not the KJV only" ( they had the OT then )
The dynamic is that when we hear the word of Christ - it brings with it grace which then brings faith in order to receive the things of Christ.
Acts 10:22 (KJV)
[SUP]22 [/SUP] And they said, Cornelius the centurion, a just man, and one that feareth God, and of good report among all the nation of the Jews, was warned from God by an holy angel to send for thee into his house, and to hear words of thee.
Then Peter opened up his mouth and preached Christ to them and it was that word about Christ that through Him everyone who believes receives the forgiveness of sins.
It is always the word of Christ - that is the word that God has preserved forever. It is always about Christ. He has the preeminence in all things. God used and can still use King James language or He can use any language as a tool to speak the word of Christ to people.
Translations of the manuscripts are simply tools that God uses to speak words about Christ in every language that is spoken on the earth. He is the true Word of God that is preserved.
The bible/scriptures is a tool the Lord uses to speak words of Christ to us. The end goal is NOT the bible/scriptures but Christ Himself. The real scriptures have been written down and many copies made of them as any search about manuscripts will reveal.
It is always words of Christ that are spoken that bring life. Take when Cornelius had an angel appear to him to tell him to send for Peter who will "tell you words". Notice the angel did not say "sent for Peter so that he will bring you scriptures - a bible and definitely not the KJV only" ( they had the OT then )
The dynamic is that when we hear the word of Christ - it brings with it grace which then brings faith in order to receive the things of Christ.
Acts 10:22 (KJV)
[SUP]22 [/SUP] And they said, Cornelius the centurion, a just man, and one that feareth God, and of good report among all the nation of the Jews, was warned from God by an holy angel to send for thee into his house, and to hear words of thee.
Then Peter opened up his mouth and preached Christ to them and it was that word about Christ that through Him everyone who believes receives the forgiveness of sins.
It is always the word of Christ - that is the word that God has preserved forever. It is always about Christ. He has the preeminence in all things. God used and can still use King James language or He can use any language as a tool to speak the word of Christ to people.
Translations of the manuscripts are simply tools that God uses to speak words about Christ in every language that is spoken on the earth. He is the true Word of God that is preserved.
C
CharlieGrown
Guest
Disagree, ambiguity is added to translations by removing and/or modernizing terms. But this is all opinion and experience. There are a myriad of examples proving this, please don't ask me to dig them up. I'm tired from the election marathon. But I will if you'd like.
*Note, not to mention there's a very nasty curse for adding/removing from the Word.
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LaurenTM
Guest
are you KJ only then?
that curse is found at the end of Revelation and it is my understanding it pertains to that book in particular
at any rate, I'd like to see a class of 3rd graders handily discuss the KJ...especially todays 3rd graders LOL!
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CharlieGrown
Guest
I'm not a zealot for the KJV, but I err on the side of caution as much as possible. It's a 3rd grade comprehension which means that's the level of understanding, meaning it is easier to understand due to the lack of the added ambiguity. I'd say the translations do add/remove even from the book of Revelation. Not making a doctrine out of it, just saying it's important to me.
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Tintin
Guest
True, tell that to the translators of the KJV. They're the ones who added to the Word of God (specifically Revelation), not the modern translations. Also, the KJV translation of Revelation is particularly shoddy. It's very rushed and not particularly accurate. I believe it was heavily based on the Latin Vulgate rather than the original Koine Greek.
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CharlieGrown
Guest
You'll need to provide some kind of comparison for that. I'm not a translation steward.