Which Bible?

[John146]

The return of Christ can not be used to compare translations of the Bible, it is a ridiculous comparison. So you are saying that Gods perfect timing to give us a word perfect Bible was in 1611 and that, according to you in your previous replies, this version is the only perfect version in the world ever written, so STFU rest of world who can not speak English.

Again I ask you, does God really think then that 16th Century English is better than the original Hebrew from thousands of years ago etc when it comes to re-writing the Old Testament.

It's not a matter of God thinking any language is better than another. Actually, God said to spread the gospel to the whole world. That can be done in any language. He never commanded to translate His words into every language now did He?

Let's not elevate the originals anymore than God? If God thought the "originals" were the only way to go, then where are they? What happened to the "original" ten commandments that God wrote with His own finger? You'd think that would be so valuable to God. God didn't panic, just made sure Moses preserved a copy. The book of Jeremiah was burned in a furnace. Did God panic? Nope, just made sure Jeremiah made another copy and even added to it.

 

[Grace777x70]

Then I would ask which Greek manuscripts? The Majority Texts (Textus Receptus) or the Minority Texts, based primarily on the Codex Siniaticus and the Codex Vaticanus?

To be honest with you my brother - I have as much interest in this debate as I do on the exact amount of angels that can dance on the head of a pin.

If you know the answer to that question then you will have my interest for one minute more. ( make that "male" angels as they are bigger than the "female" angels - if there are female ones...*shrug* )

This whole debate about translations is a way for the enemy to cause divisions between us and it does absolutely nothing to lift up Christ in our lives. So, I am out of this thread as it is unprofitable. Bless you.

I do like the KJV translation of Gal. 2:20 - the Greek shows it is the faith "of" Christ.

Have a good night. I off to read a bit before bed. It's 10:30 here in Eastern Canada eh!

 

[Dan_473]

Please, look there: Quick Christian Source - KJV Infallibility Refuted

Those are my pages so that I do not have to write it all again and again during various discussions

good research

I like the 70 & 75 issue. It doesn't affect any major doctrine, but it's clearly an error.

 

[Dan_473]

I'll be honest, here... all the numbers are making my head spin.

I think it's interesting to compare these two verses

DEUTERONOMY 10:22 Thy fathers went down into Egypt with threescore and ten persons; and now the LORD thy God hath made thee as the stars of heaven for multitude.

THE ACTS 7:14 Then sent Joseph, and called his father Jacob to him, and all his kindred, threescore and fifteen souls.

 

[KJV1611]

good research

I like the 70 & 75 issue. It doesn't affect any major doctrine, but it's clearly an error.

How the heck were you able to find 75 members of the house of Jacob in Genesis 46? I struggled to find 70 lol.

 

[KJV1611]

I'll be honest, here... all the numbers are making my head spin.

I think it's interesting to compare these two verses

DEUTERONOMY 10:22 Thy fathers went down into Egypt with threescore and ten persons; and now the LORD thy God hath made thee as the stars of heaven for multitude.

THE ACTS 7:14 Then sent Joseph, and called his father Jacob to him, and all his kindred, threescore and fifteen souls.

Deuteronomy is just like Genesis 46. God is not counting the women as fathers that went to Egypt. Acts is not talking about the fathers, it's talking about Jacob and all his kindred... the fathers and their wives.

 

[Sac49]

Why are there so many arguments about which translation is "the correct one"? Dont all the major translations speak of Jesus from begining to end? Arent all these major translations about Jesus? Yes and yes! The message is the exactly same in every single major translation! Stop arguing about the translation and study Gods Word so you can come closer to God. If your major concern is "which translation is correct" then you are completely missing the main point that God is trying to get you to understand. Pray for understanding not translation.

 

[fredoheaven]

I see baby outcries so many times along his way, and the paths he is trying to journey are mostly trodden by so many times. Many of the examples of errors are only collections of cut and paste and all of them were already been refuted not necessarily me. Just it is how broad the universe. Lookingahead but finding holes of faults along the way, or complaints instead of thanking God who He is. God can! He can keep His promises, If God can surely saves and keeps His own people, You can count he too keeps His words.To tell it frankly, I am not to ignore, I just respond if necessary.


Hoho. I have never yet seen one to the accusation of such “contradiction” in the KJV. Precisely its teaching are no errors. What others saying that there was but I said NONE! For God cannot contradict Himself. Errors are they saying maybe categorized into translation errors, printing errors, spelling errors etc. but a careful study will resolved. The good thing is God can interpret it! For the inspiration of the Almighty giveth understanding. Job 32:8



Greek text are authority some say, but which Greek text we are referring to? We have so many variant Greek texts. I asked if that is their Final Authority. Again, there are no longer seen or read nowadays about the original texts or manuscripts. What we have now are the 5.000+ extant Greek texts. And so where are the preserved words before the KJV? God preserved His words to His people, the Old Testament being preserved to us by Jews as the Bible says. The NT’s were preserved to us into the hands of Bible believers through copies. Especially on the NT, these were translated out into different languages as they too were preserved into Old Latin, Italic version, Gothic Version etc. There are at least three common views of preservation.



1. 1. The one we all agree. This is what we call preservation by a book. Whether we like it or not, the Bible is preserved to us in a book form. Each claims we have his own Bible to read and study.



2. 2. Preservation by Text. This means there are two lines or two streams of manuscript whether we like it or not. The Antiochan/ byzantine or the Alexandrian type of mss, while although, the critical scholars subdivided mss.into families. This is done in order to divide Majority mss. that underlies the KJV and because of this the Bible has it “faults.” This is where the conflict starts.



3. 3. Preservation by Translation. This means preserved words of God extend to translation. This is the stand of the KJVO’s.

Basically there at least two views here:

A. Practical purity. That there are no mistakes, errors, contradiction but this does not say translations are inspired.
B. Absolute purity. This is about the KJV is given by inspiration of God. It’s pure, separate, Holy Scriptures. This I believe on the KJV.



God bless

 

[Sac49]

Do yinz actually realize that this is one of the ways satan devides the church? Here is what satan is thinking about this argument;
"If i can get them arguing over translation then they are not only not spreading Gods Word but they themselves are not growing in Jesus"
Yeah this is what our greatest adversary is saying and he is absolutely correct. We "Christians" argue so much with each other that we neglect our "job" as followers of Christ. Our "job" is to glorify God and to spread the Gospel. Dont see much of either here thats for sure. God love us because we sure cant get along together.

 

[trofimus]

good research

I like the 70 & 75 issue. It doesn't affect any major doctrine, but it's clearly an error.

Thanks, but it was more "google" research.

The wrong translation of aion (age, world) only was something I discovered by some accident when I was looking for something else.

 

[Dan_473]

Deuteronomy is just like Genesis 46. God is not counting the women as fathers that went to Egypt. Acts is not talking about the fathers, it's talking about Jacob and all his kindred... the fathers and their wives.

too many numbers make head spin my.


DEUTERONOMY 10:22 Thy fathers went down into Egypt

with threescore and ten persons;

and now the LORD thy God hath made thee as the stars of heaven for multitude.

the English word Persons includes everybody.



to me it looks like:

the ot likes the number 70... it's one of those nice round numbers.

Stephen uses 75.
the only text that uses the actual number 75 is the lxx

46:27 And the sons of Joseph, who were born to him in the land of Egypt, were nine souls; all the souls of the house of Jacob who came with Joseph into Egypt, were seventy-five souls.

Genesis

 

[trofimus]

Ok, I'm sorry... I got excited and didn't finish the whole thing. Ive only proved that the KJV is right in Genesis by using the number 70. So to continue:

Acts 7:14 KJV
Then sent Joseph, and called his father Jacob to him , and all his kindred, threescore and fifteen souls.

Here in Acts the writer says that Joseph called his father and ALL HIS KINDRED, not just the house of Jacob, but also the wives to come down to Egypt.

Where did Stephen get the number of 75, then? Where is the source for 5 wives? Why did he count wives and did not use the common number known to others?

Why does LXX have 75 in Genesis?

 

[fredoheaven]

No that is a mistake made from added vowel points that were not a part of the manuscripts until after 900 AD.

Isaiah 42:8 “I am יהוה, that is My Name, and My esteem I do not give to another, nor My praise to idols"

יהוה

is

YHWH

in english

Hi,

Just asking not to debate here, you said it is mistake for the vowel points until 900 AD. This sounds pure researched but why it is only until 900 AD? Why not AD 740? AD 600? AD 500? AD 70? or BC 30? or probable date of BC 277?

Also you said "... is YHWH in English" is what? expound please.

Thanks

 

[trofimus]

It's not a matter of God thinking any language is better than another. Actually, God said to spread the gospel to the whole world. That can be done in any language. He never commanded to translate His words into every language now did He?

Let's not elevate the originals anymore than God? If God thought the "originals" were the only way to go, then where are they? What happened to the "original" ten commandments that God wrote with His own finger? You'd think that would be so valuable to God. God didn't panic, just made sure Moses preserved a copy. The book of Jeremiah was burned in a furnace. Did God panic? Nope, just made sure Jeremiah made another copy and even added to it.

Can you explain to me why you talk about the perfect timing - waiting for the perfect KJV and on the other side argumenting by the verse that every generation has His words preserved?

Its seems like a contradiction to me. Either every generation has His perfect words, therefore KJV was not needed or every generation did not have His perfect words, therefore KJV was needed in 1611.

What perfect text was there for the generation in England in 1610 AD?

 

[garee]

Naming errors:

"And they called Barnabas, Jupiter; and Paul, Mercurius, because he was the chief speaker."
(Acts 14:12 KJV)

This misleading transliteration can be traced back to Jerome’s Latin Vulgate which used the Roman names of the Greek gods.

So then Jerome just made up the names ,or is there a significance in using those words as a pattern or parable ?

 

[garee]

Where did Stephen get the number of 75, then? Where is the source for 5 wives? Why did he count wives and did not use the common number known to others?

Why does LXX have 75 in Genesis?

I see that a little differently.


He uses seventy in the same way as seventy five .Just a different parable used to hide the spiritual meaning from the lost. .

He uses the common word Pente meaning five, a word used to represent “redemption” throughout the scriptures. Calling it; three score and fifteen.

While seventy represented in multiples of ten a prime number, just as a hundred and a thousand meaning the perfect or complete will of God.

Strong’s lexicon 4002 pente {pen'-teh}a primary number;; n indecl
AV - five 36, three score and fifteen + 1440 1, fifty thousand + 3461 1; 38

Using it as a parable just as he uses the word eighteen with eight meaning carnal and ten "deca" a primary number to indicate the whole lot, where guilty sinners.

Parables in that way hide the spiritual meaning given to those who follow His interpretation of words.

Luk 13:4 Or those eighteen,(deka ten) ) upon whom the tower in Siloam fell, and slew them, think ye that they were sinners above all men that dwelt in Jerusalem?


Strong’s lexicon 1176 deka {dek'-ah} a primary number; TDNT - 2:36,143; n indecl
AV - ten 24, eighteen + 2532 + 3638 3; 27 1) ten

 

[John146]

This whole debate about translations is a way for the enemy to cause divisions between us and it does absolutely nothing to lift up Christ in our lives. So, I am out of this thread as it is unprofitable. Bless you.

I do like the KJV translation of Gal. 2:20 - the Greek shows it is the faith "of" Christ.

Have a good night. I off to read a bit before bed. It's 10:30 here in Eastern Canada eh!

I beg to differ brother. If we don't have something certain to offer to the world, then we have nothing. The word of God says about itself that it is truth. We must be able to claim that we have the word of truth from God.

 

[John146]

Do yinz actually realize that this is one of the ways satan devides the church? Here is what satan is thinking about this argument;
"If i can get them arguing over translation then they are not only not spreading Gods Word but they themselves are not growing in Jesus"
Yeah this is what our greatest adversary is saying and he is absolutely correct. We "Christians" argue so much with each other that we neglect our "job" as followers of Christ. Our "job" is to glorify God and to spread the Gospel. Dont see much of either here thats for sure. God love us because we sure cant get along together.

Exactly our point, more than one Bible creates confusion and doubt in the word of God.

 

[trofimus]

I see that a little differently.


He uses seventy in the same way as seventy five .Just a different parable used to hide the spiritual meaning from the lost. .

He uses the common word Pente meaning five, a word used to represent “redemption” throughout the scriptures. Calling it; three score and fifteen.

While seventy represented in multiples of ten a prime number, just as a hundred and a thousand meaning the perfect or complete will of God.

Strong’s lexicon 4002 pente {pen'-teh}a primary number;; n indecl
AV - five 36, three score and fifteen + 1440 1, fifty thousand + 3461 1; 38

Using it as a parable just as he uses the word eighteen with eight meaning carnal and ten "deca" a primary number to indicate the whole lot, where guilty sinners.

Parables in that way hide the spiritual meaning given to those who follow His interpretation of words.

Luk 13:4 Or those eighteen,(deka ten) ) upon whom the tower in Siloam fell, and slew them, think ye that they were sinners above all men that dwelt in Jerusalem?


Strong’s lexicon 1176 deka {dek'-ah} a primary number; TDNT - 2:36,143; n indecl
AV - ten 24, eighteen + 2532 + 3638 3; 27 1) ten

OK, that would be the theory for the number 75 Stephen uses.

But why does the LXX have 75 in Genesis?

All these circumstances (LXX used by the first church) must be taken into consideration.

 

[trofimus]

So then Jerome just made up the names ,or is there a significance in using those words as a pattern or parable ?

Jerome was making the translation (Vulgate) to Latin, for Romans. So he used the Roman names for gods.

There is no reason to use them in English.