Which laws are and are not valid?

[Elin]

Luke 16:31. And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead.

Speaking of the Jews who rejected him. . .

 

[Elin]

Obedience is not achieved by faith, we are counted as perfect becaue of our faith.

Obedience is achieved by the enablement of the Holy Spirit to those who are of saving faith.

Even so, the law is not abolished.

Eph 2:11-16 disagrees. . .

There are yet many prophesies concerning Christ yet to be accomplished.

In "the law and the prophets," the law is not the prophets.

If you believe when Christ uttered " It is finished" on th ecross that this is
to be interpreted He had completed all of the law and the prophets,

To be interpreted that he had completed all of the law. . .

you might consider that it is instead a reference to the petition He made in prayer the night previous, in the garden.

It is in reference to the earthly work of salvation which the Father gave him to do,
mainly to satisfy the divine justice due for the sin of those who believe in him by his sacrifice of propitiation (Ro 3:25).

 

[Elin]

Gal. 5:15 But if ye bite and devour one another, take heed that ye be not consumed one of another.

That happens when the full gospel is diluted, truncated, omitted, diverted or altered. . .

 

[JaumeJ]

Elin, you do not share from teh teachings of Jesus Christ on any of the subjects you seem to be most sensitive about.
We obey as best we are able, but what we achieve by the Holy Spirit is being accepted as perfect because of Jesus C¨hrisst dwelling in us. This is explained muc better in Psal 32.

Jesus teaches all that the law is not abolished. If you wish to belong to Paul only, this is your choice. The prophets have not yet been fulfilled in Jesus Christ since He has not yet returened. There are still prophecies to be fulfilled, for instance every eye beholding His return. The Book of Revelation is yet to be fulfilled concerning Jesus Christ. These are obvious substantiations of this teaching from Jesus Christ. When He declared, "It is finished," this was a reference to His petitions in prayer the night previous in the garden when He asked that the cup be removed from Him. He continue in the will of the Father.

Please reveal where Jesus Christ says sthe law is abolished? It has no power over any who claim His presious Blood, as I do, but the law is still there to be learned and obeyed by the Holy Spirit, as best we ae iven. Yet our transgressions are no longer held against us. Perhaps, were yo to study all of the Word, this would come to you. Until then, I cannot continue responding to what I consider ill conceived chatter. God bless you, and please attempt to learn on all subjects from Jesus Christ, for He has invited all to learn of Him............

 

[Elin]

How could I believe such a thing, but there are so many who teach from Paul's writing with no understanding,, sometimes even
teaching from Paul on a given matter when Jesuis Christ has already been crystal cear on the same, especially about the law.

Setting the word of God against itself is ipso facto proof that one does not understand it correctly.

It is certain Paul, the 13th Apostle, would be the first to tell you, me, and all to
listen to Jesus Christ on any given subject before taking his own words and misconstruing them.

It is certain Paul would tell you that his words are the words of Christ, from Christ personally, and always in perfect agreement with Christ since they are, in fact, Christ's words.

No, I would never say I am above Paul in any manner, I am above no believer, but I do know what
Jesus Christ teaches us, and He does that directly from the gospels of the evangelists, especially on how the law stands today.

And did Jesus write those words. . .or were they written by the NT writers?

And since Jesus was born, lived and died under the law, did he give us
the full New Covenant revelation when its very basis-- his death, had not yet occurred?

Did Jesus give Paul so much divine truth after the fact because the fullness of God's truth could not be given before the fact?

Jesus teaches all we need do to be save is to believe He is the Son of God. Now when we hav e this faith, the faith, itself will produce obedience and good works.

Contrare. . .if Jesus and the Father did not think the writings of the NT were beneficial and necessary for the people of God, he would have left us without them.

So many argue nor works, no obedience (law) just grace whic contains mercy. This simply is not so, even according to Paul. Faith without those works produces is a mirage. Disobedience is breking the law.

That would be the new covenant law of Christ, which is the law of God (Mt 22:39; 1Co 9:20-21; Gal 6:2; Jas 2:8) fulfilling all the law of God (Mt 22:40; Ro 13:8, 9, 10).

I can tell you they will have many problems with a Paul-only approach to the Word. The Word is Jesus Christ, and written, it begins with "In the Beginning," and it ends with "amen,."

All believers must have a Peter, James, John, Jude, Matthew, Mark, Luke approach to the NT word of God written.

 

[Elin]

My post related to the fact you stated obedience is not achieved by faith after I had quoted Paul as saying it does. I find it worrying to say the least a christian would refuse to accept what Paul plainly wrote. Hence my question.
Do you believe you gave greater spiritual understanding than Paul. If not, why refuse to accept what he wrote?

He has stated that "Paul did not have perfect knowledge of the word," and that he does not agree that all the NT writings are Scripture.

That ain't the Holy Spirit. . .

 

[Elin]

All knnow that God willl complete the work He began in each one of us. l I say obedience is not achieved because we are counted righteous by our faith. No man can do what Jesuis Chrisst did for us. If yo believe you are perfectly obedient, I will not say you are not, but my understanding has always been from the Gospel, from the unveiled truths of the Old Testament, and yes, even from Paul.

I do ot believe anyone anywhere says we achieve obedience, except in the manner of being counted as perfect by grace. By the same token, nowehre does anyone, including Paul, say we should deliberatley disobey the law as taugth by Jesus christ. Is it not Paul who says, "Shall we sin more that grace may abound= God forbid!) Sin is, was and always will be breaking the law. We do not deliberately sin after coming to the grace of Jesus Christ, but I know there is no man who is perfect in this manner other than the One Who is perfect for us until His great and glorious Day.

UIntil then, we are children of obedience, who believe obedience is proper, and we do not deliberately disobey.

Which law is the law of Christ (Mt 22:37-39) which fulfills all of God's law (Mt 22:40).

 

[Elin]

Your post has inconsistencies and discernment should show you when obedience is being spoken of in rom 1:5 it does not mean perfect obedience.
If a person does not embrace the books following the gospels to the extent they do the gospels their christian knowledge will be sadly very limited.

And they will also be in unbelief regarding part of the NT Word of God written.

 

[Elin]

I just have read those:

“Torah is written on the table of stones and on papers “Beit Knesset ah” (in the synagogue), by glorious of God's mercy
Torah has moved into the hearts of the people, so not just for the Torah, but to be Torah alive inside us and through us. And this is impossible without the Holy Spirit. In this is the essence of the New Covenant”

Sorry if the gramma is not correct- translation is by me...

God bless you all!

The New Covenant (Jer 31:31) law of Christ (Mt 22:37-39) is written on the hearts of God's people
(Jer 31:33), and which is all of God's law (Mt 22:40).

 

[Elin]

It is teh Blood of Christ That keeps me worthy of Him. He is my Salvation. Jesus Christ is my Lord. Again Christ's Blood has saved me. Do you confess Jesus Christ? He is Lord and Savior.

You ae acting in an obsessed manner with me in coming in after my day on line and fieing off a battery of accusations and word splitting opinions without giving thought to what has been posted.

Perhaps were you to read what is posted and pray.
What I post is based on belief of all of teh Word.

But it omits part of the word relevant to the point on which you are posting.

Again, Jesus Christ never said the law and the prophets were finished or passed.

Read the words spoken by the Son in these last days through the NT writers in Eph 2:15,
and do not present your unbelief of them as the God's truth.

How can the prophets be passed concering Jesus Christ when there are so many yet to be fulfilled?

Previously addressed. . .

Please read and study more and then pray before thinking you have the anwers. The only answers are in the Holy Spirit. Again, please confess the Blood of Jesus Christ as your Salvation. I like to hear this from family in Christ from time to time.................thanks.

Please confess your belief in all of the NT writings of the NT word of God. . .I like to hear this from family in Christ from time to time. . . .

 

[Elin]

Elin, you do not share from teh teachings of Jesus Christ on any of the subjects you seem to be most sensitive about.
We obey as best we are able, but what we achieve by the Holy Spirit is being accepted as perfect because of Jesus C¨hrisst dwelling in us. This is explained muc better in Psal 32.

Jesus teaches all that the law is not abolished.

Setting the word of God against itself in the words of Jesus and Paul is ipso facto proof that
you do not understand them correctly.

Please reveal where Jesus Christ says sthe law is abolished?

It is revealed in the words spoken by the Son in these last days (Heb 1:1-2) through the NT writers in Eph 2:15.

Please confess your belief in all the words spoken by the Son in these last days (Heb 1:1-2) through the NT writers.

 

[BS]

Speaking of the Jews who rejected him. . .

Elin, I must warn you because you are in danger of your own tongue. I recommend you read very carefully 11 chapter of the Romans! Read it! Carefully! Here a part:


1. I say then, Hath God cast away his people? God forbid. For I also am an Israelite, of the seed of Abraham, [of] the tribe of Benjamin.

2. God hath not cast away his people which he foreknew. Wot ye not what the scripture saith of Elias? how he maketh intercession to God against Israel, saying,

3. Lord, they have killed thy prophets, and digged down thine altars; and I am left alone, and they seek my life.
4. But what saith the answer of God unto him? I have reserved to myself seven thousand men, who have not bowed the knee to [the image of] Baal.

5. Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to the election of grace.
6. And if by grace, then [is it] no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if [it be] of works, then is it no more grace: otherwise work is no more work.
7. What then? Israel hath not obtained that which he seeketh for; but the election hath obtained it, and the rest were blinded
8. (According as it is written, God hath given them the spirit of slumber, eyes that they should not see, and ears that they should not hear unto this day.
9. And David saith, Let their table be made a snare, and a trap, and a stumblingblock, and a recompence unto them:
10. Let their eyes be darkened, that they may not see, and bow down their back alway.
11. I say then, Have they stumbled that they should fall? God forbid: but [rather] through their fall salvation [is come] unto the Gentiles, for to provoke them to jealousy.
12. Now if the fall of them [be] the riches of the world, and the diminishing of them the riches of the Gentiles; how much more their fulness?

13. For I speak to you Gentiles, inasmuch as I am the apostle of the Gentiles, I magnify mine office:
14. If by any means I may provoke to emulation [them which are] my flesh, and might save some of them.
15. For if the casting away of them [be] the reconciling of the world, what [shall] the receiving [of them be], but life from the dead?
16. For if the firstfruit [be] holy, the lump [is] also [holy]: and if the root [be] holy, so [are] the branches.
17. And if some of the branches be broken off, and thou, being a wild olive tree, wert graffed in among them, and with them partakest of the root and fatness of the olive tree;
18. Boast not against the branches. But if thou boast, thou bearest not the root, but the root thee.

19. Thou wilt say then, The branches were broken off, that I might be graffed in.
20. Well; because of unbelief they were broken off, and thou standest by faith. Be not highminded, but fear:
21. For if God spared not the natural branches, [take heed] lest he also spare not thee.



I love you and will pray for your soul! Let God Jesus Christ give you patience and understanding what to do with His gift!
God bless you!

Do not quote me anymore - I will stop answer here!

 

[oldthennew]

Brother-Jaume,

sometimes discernment can cut your heart in two = most times this is when our heavenly Father, even though
it breaks our hearts, we must hope and pray that the word He has given us will be that special seed that will
eventually sprout and grow and sow the power of our heart-felt prayers.

we must know when we are trying to step-in and take over our Father's job and humble ourselves and go on to
the next precious job that He has planned for us, and we already know the joy and comfort this will give..

may we say that we are so pleased and honored to know you and to be a partaker and learner of the wisdom
that our heavenly Father has bestowed upon you.

we commend you for speaking with 'love-kindness-respect, for out of the mouth proceeds the abundance
of the HEART.

with much Love in Christ,
may you continue to bear Spiritual fruit in our Lord and Saviour, Jesus Christ.
may you continue to die daily and may we never let our ego over-come our Spiritual grace.

 

[Elin]

You ae acting in an obsessed manner with me
in coming in after my day on line and fieing off a battery of accusations and word splitting opinions without giving thought to what has been posted.

Not too sure why your posts which divert, omit and deny parts of the NT word of God written are not "acting in an obsessed manner," but my responses to them are.

Wonder if the Judaizers felt the same way about Paul. . .

 

[Elin]

Elin, you do not share from teh teachings of Jesus Christ on any of the subjects you seem to be most sensitive about.

Sharing from the words spoken by the Son in these last days (Heb 1:1-2) through the NT writers is not sharing from the teachings of Jesus Christ?

That ain't the Holy Spirit. . .

 

[Elin]

Elin, I must warn you because you are in danger of your own tongue.
I recommend you read very carefully 11 chapter of the Romans! Read it! Carefully! Here a part:

1. I say then, Hath God cast away his people? God forbid. For I also am an Israelite, of the seed of Abraham, [of] the tribe of Benjamin.

2. God hath not cast away his people which he foreknew. Wot ye not what the scripture saith of Elias? how he maketh intercession to God against Israel, saying,

3. Lord, they have killed thy prophets, and digged down thine altars; and I am left alone, and they seek my life.
4. But what saith the answer of God unto him? I have reserved to myself seven thousand men, who have not bowed the knee to [the image of] Baal.

5. Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to the election of grace.
6. And if by grace, then [is it] no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if [it be] of works, then is it no more grace: otherwise work is no more work.
7. What then? Israel hath not obtained that which he seeketh for; but the election hath obtained it, and the rest were blinded
8. (According as it is written, God hath given them the spirit of slumber, eyes that they should not see, and ears that they should not hear unto this day.
9. And David saith, Let their table be made a snare, and a trap, and a stumblingblock, and a recompence unto them:
10. Let their eyes be darkened, that they may not see, and bow down their back alway.
11. I say then, Have they stumbled that they should fall? God forbid: but [rather] through their fall salvation [is come] unto the Gentiles, for to provoke them to jealousy.
12. Now if the fall of them [be] the riches of the world, and the diminishing of them the riches of the Gentiles; how much more their fulness?

13. For I speak to you Gentiles, inasmuch as I am the apostle of the Gentiles, I magnify mine office:
14. If by any means I may provoke to emulation [them which are] my flesh, and might save some of them.
15. For if the casting away of them [be] the reconciling of the world, what [shall] the receiving [of them be], but life from the dead?
16. For if the firstfruit [be] holy, the lump [is] also [holy]: and if the root [be] holy, so [are] the branches.
17. And if some of the branches be broken off, and thou, being a wild olive tree, wert graffed in among them, and with them partakest of the root and fatness of the olive tree;
18. Boast not against the branches. But if thou boast, thou bearest not the root, but the root thee.

19. Thou wilt say then, The branches were broken off, that I might be graffed in.
20. Well; because of unbelief they were broken off, and thou standest by faith. Be not highminded, but fear:
21. For if God spared not the natural branches, [take heed] lest he also spare not thee.

Thanks. . .but there is nothing there that absolves rejection of any of the words spoken by the Son
in these last days (Heg 1:1-2) through the NT writers,
nor condemns addressing any Jewish unbelief.

I love you and will pray for your soul! Let God Jesus Christ give you patience and understanding what to do with His gift!
God bless you!

Thanks. . .I will do the same for yours.

Do not quote me anymore - I will stop answer here!

Good decision. . .

 

[Elin]

Brother-Jaume,

sometimes discernment can cut your heart in two = most times this is when our heavenly Father, even though
it breaks our hearts, we must hope and pray that the word He has given us will be that special seed that will
eventually sprout and grow and sow the power of our heart-felt prayers.

we must know when we are trying to step-in and take over our Father's job and humble ourselves and go on to
the next precious job that He has planned for us, and we already know the joy and comfort this will give..

may we say that we are so pleased and honored to know you and to be a partaker and learner of the wisdom
that our heavenly Father has bestowed upon you.

we commend you for speaking with 'love-kindness-respect, for out of the mouth proceeds the abundance
of the HEART.

with much Love in Christ,
may you continue to bear Spiritual fruit in our Lord and Saviour, Jesus Christ.
may you continue to die daily and may we never let our ego over-come our Spiritual grace.

Well said. . .

 

[Elin]

Brother-Jaume,

sometimes discernment can cut your heart in two = most times this is when our heavenly Father, even though
it breaks our hearts, we must hope and pray that the word He has given us will be that special seed that will
eventually sprout and grow and sow the power of our heart-felt prayers.

we must know when we are trying to step-in and take over our Father's job and humble ourselves and go on to
the next precious job that He has planned for us, and we already know the joy and comfort this will give..

Keeping in mind Jn 20:21.

As the Father sent Jesus to proclaim the kingdom and die as a sacrifice of propitiation (Ro 3:25),
so after his death Jesus sent his apostles to proclaim the new covenant gospel which we have through the NT writers.

 

[just-me]

When certain professing Christians come to grips with the FACT that it is not God's law that causes sin, then they will be headed in the right direction concerning eternal life. The law reveals the sin, it is NOT the cause of sin. Let's make sure our rhetoric fits the truth. If we continue to blame the law instead of the iniquity that still remains in the mortal body, even after we are supposedly born again, I think this statement of Christ Jesus will apply to those who turn the truth upside-down concerning the Torah.

Matthew 7:20-23
[SUP]20 [/SUP]Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them.
[SUP]21 [/SUP]Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
[SUP]22 [/SUP]Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
[SUP]23 [/SUP]And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

 

[Elin]

When certain professing Christians come to grips with the FACT that it is not God's law that causes sin, then they will be headed in the right direction concerning eternal life.

Straw man. . .who says that?