Which Team? Male or Female? Today I feel like a ....

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Human said:
Female students have been allowed to play on the men's team at the college for several years already, using the already available unisex bathroom and changing rooms. There was, apparently, no big issue with that. I don't see why there is now an issue with the cross-gender dynamics of the changing situation, other than opposition to transgenderism itself from uninformed demographics.

However, as far as the competitive financial side of sports goes, Maxwell makes good points. I do believe, however, Maxwell, that transgender identification would require genuine medical diagnosis and documentation.
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This is a good point, and it's something you would expect.

However, the term "gender identity" seems to be a fairly nebulous term.
A man with a female "gender identity" doesn't necessarily have to dress as a female, take hormones, get operations, do female things, sleep with men, or do anything that is particularly noticeable.

I've seen some definitions and explanations of these things which are just incredibly vague.
Technically, according to the current definitions of "gender identity", I don't think a person has to display any particular characteristics at all. Therefore... what kind of diagnosis can a doctor even give?

I'm completely serious.

It has already become completely ridiculous.

What does "transgender" even mean?
It means almost nothing.
It's a vague, all encompassing term, that means SO MANY different things, that it almost means nothing at all.
I think it's just a big fat nebulous word that encompasses just about anything weird or confusing sexually... so the "political base" is as big as possible.
 
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maxwel said:
This is a good point, and it's something you would expect.

However, the term "gender identity" seems to be a fairly nebulous term.
A man with a female "gender identity" doesn't necessarily have to dress as a female, take hormones, get operations, do female things, sleep with men, or do anything that is particularly noticeable.

I've seen some definitions and explanations of these things which are just incredibly vague.
Technically, according to the current definitions of "gender identity", I don't think a person has to display any particular characteristics at all. Therefore... what kind of diagnosis can a doctor even give?

I'm completely serious.

It has already become completely ridiculous.

What does "transgender" even mean?
It means almost nothing.
It's a vague, all encompassing term, that means SO MANY different things, that it almost means nothing at all.
I think it's just a big fat nebulous word that encompasses just about anything weird or confusing sexually... so the "political base" is as big as possible.
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Generally, the use of the term is warranted in describing any person whose self-perception doesn't conform explicitly to pre-defined social gender stereotypes in relation to biological sex.Those social stereotypes are as follows:

A person with a penis is considered, by and large, to be biologically and mentally male (masculine) and a person with breasts and a vagina is generally considered biologically and mentally female (feminine). Transgenderism is effectively when a person's self-perception breaks those two stereotypes in some way, for instance when a biological female feels more identification with masculinity and maleness, or vice versa.

It should be noted that gender, in correct terms, is not the same thing as sex. Sex is strictly to do with the classifications of male and female upon the basis of the sexual organs for reproduction, while gender is to do with all of the traits that a society associates with either 'maleness' or 'femaleness'. Someone who rejects typical notions of what is inherently masculine or feminine, or perhaps even rejects the division of separate human traits into boxes attributed to the biological sexes in their entirety is not categorically transgender. 'Transgender' becomes a quality that can be attributed to an individual only when their self perceived gender identity does not conform with their own sex; ie when they actively desire to change biological sex.

In order to be genuinely 'transgender' a person need have such a desire, and proof of any such desire can come in the form of diagnosis by a medical doctor or psychologist familiar with the feelings associated with gender identity issues.
 
Nautilus said:
Sam sucked on a pro level. Lots of college players can't cut it in the NFL. It has nothing to do with him being gay though.
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Some teams could have picked up him for virtually nothing ($$$$$) and we wonder why not? Yes, gayness does matter in professional sports because they will get the silent treatment 24/7 which can be more painful that the physical injuries.
 
Human said:
Generally, the use of the term is warranted in describing any person whose self-perception doesn't conform explicitly to pre-defined social gender stereotypes in relation to biological sex.Those social stereotypes are as follows:

A person with a penis is considered, by and large, to be biologically and mentally male (masculine) and a person with breasts and a vagina is generally considered biologically and mentally female (feminine). Transgenderism is effectively when a person's self-perception breaks those two stereotypes in some way, for instance when a biological female feels more identification with masculinity and maleness, or vice versa.

It should be noted that gender, in correct terms, is not the same thing as sex. Sex is strictly to do with the classifications of male and female upon the basis of the sexual organs for reproduction, while gender is to do with all of the traits that a society associates with either 'maleness' or 'femaleness'. Someone who rejects typical notions of what is inherently masculine or feminine, or perhaps even rejects the division of separate human traits into boxes attributed to the biological sexes in their entirety is not categorically transgender. 'Transgender' becomes a quality that can be attributed to an individual only when their self perceived gender identity does not conform with their own sex; ie when they actively desire to change biological sex.

In order to be genuinely 'transgender' a person need have such a desire, and proof of any such desire can come in the form of diagnosis by a medical doctor or psychologist familiar with the feelings associated with gender identity issues.
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Uhhhh... yeah.
And that's pretty vague.
That doesn't denote ANY particular manifestations of ANY kind.
It isn't contingent on ANYTHING evidential you've done...
it's completely reliant on nothing more tangible than the outcome of a little chat with your psychiatrist...
and probably whatever is the politically correct way to do a diagnosis AT THAT TIME.

As far as getting a doctor's evaluation...
if you consider that the field of psychology is CONTINUALLY changing HOW they evaluate different things, and even WHICH things are significant enough to evaluate... that doesn't leave me with much confidence that anything reasonable will be happening in the future.

Psychiatry is a field where they "vote" on what they happen to feel are illnesses each year.
It's all just a teensy weensy bit subjective.
 
Seriously, this topic is just entirely too absurd to even discuss.

It's just stupid.

We have a bunch of ridiculous psychologists telling little boys, "If you think in your head that you're a girl, then POOF, the high priest of psychology hereby ANNOINTS YOU A GIRL! TA-DAH!!! You still look EXACTLY like a boy, but here's a note telling the whole world you're really a girl now!!! Yep yep yep... it's just like MAGIC!!!"

It's like inmates running the asylum.




I'm done here.
Have fun everybody.
 
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maxwel said:
Uhhhh... yeah.
And that's pretty vague.
That doesn't denote ANY particular manifestations of ANY kind.
It isn't contingent on ANYTHING evidential you've done...
it's completely reliant on nothing more tangible than the outcome of a little chat with your psychiatrist...
and probably whatever is the politically correct way to do a diagnosis AT THAT TIME.

As far as getting a doctor's evaluation...
if you consider that the field of psychology is CONTINUALLY changing HOW they evaluate different things, and even WHICH things are significant enough to evaluate... that doesn't leave me with much confidence that anything reasonable will be happening in the future.

Psychiatry is a field where they "vote" on what they happen to feel are illnesses each year.
It's all just a teensy weensy bit subjective.
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I think that's exactly the point. Self-perception, like all human mental perception, is a subjective conscious experience interdependently manifest with associations to various unique memories, thoughts, feelings and senses. The study thereof must respect the nature of the object of study, or nothing will be learned.

The International Statistical Classification of Diseases and Related Health Problems defines transgenderism as 'a desire to live and be accepted as a member of the opposite sex accompanied by a sense of discomfort or inappropriateness of one's anatomic sex'. In diagnosis there must be clear indication of the significant distress and impairment in one's work and social life as a direct result of these feelings, among several other diagnostic criteria.

It's a serious issue and to assume that schools and colleges would take claims as lightly as to get someone to 'sign a form to join the women's team' seems like a simultaneous effort to both trivialise the very real illness and discredit years of psychiatric research into it.

Your own personal anger also seems to be affecting your rationale. This isn't inherently an issue of assignment of correct sex and proper precaution for you, more a matter of intense personal dislike for the idea that people can be transgender. You essentially refuse to recognise it as a reality, because you find it offensive.

Do you think people with identity problems asked for them? It would probably be a relief for them to wake up one day and be happy with who they are.
 
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Human said:
I think that's exactly the point. Self-perception, like all human mental perception, is a subjective conscious experience interdependently manifest with associations to various unique memories, thoughts, feelings and senses. The study thereof must respect the nature of the object of study, or nothing will be learned.

The International Statistical Classification of Diseases and Related Health Problems defines transgenderism as 'a desire to live and be accepted as a member of the opposite sex accompanied by a sense of discomfort or inappropriateness of one's anatomic sex'. In diagnosis there must be clear indication of the significant distress and impairment in one's work and social life as a direct result of these feelings, among several other diagnostic criteria.

It's a serious issue and to assume that schools and colleges would take claims as lightly as to get someone to 'sign a form to join the women's team' seems like a simultaneous effort to both trivialise the very real illness and discredit years of psychiatric research into it.

Your own personal anger also seems to be affecting your rationale. This isn't inherently an issue of assignment of correct sex and proper precaution for you, more a matter of intense personal dislike for the idea that people can be transgender. You essentially refuse to recognise it as a reality, because you find it offensive.

Do you think people with identity problems asked for them? It would probably be a relief for them to wake up one day and be happy with who they are.
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LOL
: )

You mean like...
when God creates a little boy, and then you try to turn him into a little girl...
ummmm... I think that's wicked?

Yeah... in general, wickedness upsets me.

You got me.
: )
 
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QUOTE:

Do you think people with identity problems asked for them? It would probably be a relief for them to wake up one day and be happy with who they are.

END QUOTE

The only way that is going to happen is by the grace of God.................well, in my opinion anyhoo........
 
maxwel said:
LOL
: )

You mean like...
when God creates a little boy, and then you try to turn him into a little girl...
ummmm... I think that's wicked?

Yeah... in general, wickedness upsets me.

You got me.
: )
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Maxwell,

How then do you deal with those born with chromosomal abnormalities such as 46xxy,47xxxy,48xxxxy or mosaic chromosomes?
 
maxwel said:
LOL
: )

You mean like...
when God creates a little boy, and then you try to turn him into a little girl...
ummmm... I think that's wicked?

Yeah... in general, wickedness upsets me.

You got me.
: )
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I haven't tried to turn anybody into anything. If someone comes to me with a gender self perception misaligned with their physical sex they present that problem autonomously and voluntarily, and the existence of that problem predates any interaction I might have with them, Maxwel.

If God creates people as they are intended, perhaps by that logic you might take the view God created a young boy who actually feels like a little girl inside! Because I haven't made anybody into anything; that's outside the realm of my power. On wickedness, I feel though, it might be quite wicked to invalidate and stigmatize the young boy's feelings to the point he can't express them for fear of self righteous indignation from people who can't control their own offensive reflex. Suppressed feelings, have of course, helped nobody in life.
 
dcontroversal said:
Now this about makes me want to puke, spew, vomit, gag while shaking my head in disbelief......if this is what the U.S. is coming to.....our nation is done and who in the he-- brought this up as I would have ripped them a new one!
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In this politically correct crazed world, the psychiatrists have a special camp for your types, LOL...

tumblr_m3muwdRBxn1qmao0jo1_500.jpg
 
TOday I want to be a female because then I have an excuse to eat tons of chocolate and ice cream and blub about how unfair life is and the scumbag that has crushed my feelings.
 
biscuit said:
Some teams could have picked up him for virtually nothing ($$$$$) and we wonder why not? Yes, gayness does matter in professional sports because they will get the silent treatment 24/7 which can be more painful that the physical injuries.
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Teams could pick up Tim Tebow for a bare minimum and he put up extremely impressive college stats, but he couldnt translate those numbers to pro numbers. Same thing with Michael Sam. You can try to twist his lack of NFL play to fit whatever antigay agenda you're going for but at the end of the day he didn't have nfl level numbers in college and he proved he couldn't play at an nfl level. Its more lack of skill than sexuality here.
 
Agricola said:
TOday I want to be a female because then I have an excuse to eat tons of chocolate and ice cream and blub about how unfair life is and the scumbag that has crushed my feelings.
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hey--i've never done that stuff!

...oh, wait...i've done all of those things. :o
 
On the sardonic side:

Wow! I'm totally inspired. I'll just change my gender, and then I can come down heavy on all the women in the BDF because women can't be in ministry.

No more Greek, showing the real meanings of the word, no more praying for God's will. Just walk into my friendly neighbourhood church, show them my credentials and voilà, I am eligible for any pastorate in the world! Well, unless they don't favour transgendered people. I think I just have to channel my "inner tomboy" a bit.

On a more serious note, I think this is a serious issue, and not well understood. I met a man who was what seemed to be a normal male, fathered a daughter, but who was transgendered. He was a big guy, and I watched him and supported him as he transitioned. He was a strong Christian, took his Bible everywhere, witnessed to people and loved Jesus.

As I watched her become a different gender, which didn't seem possible in the beginning, she became happier, more vibrant and alive. She did not, to my knowledge, have any chromosome abnormalities. And she held onto Christ even more. She even tried a church where Jesus and Gaia were worshipped and decided to go back to a conservative church where the Bible was preached!

I don't claim to understand, and there probably are some spurious cases. I will leave their gender and salvation up to God!
 
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