Who are "they" and "them"?
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excellent question which I and I alone will have a unique answer. Luke 23, who are the 'they' that crucified Christ Jesus? Reading only Luke 23, the they are the Jews. The centurion comments that "Truly this was the Son of God." There is the green wood/dry wood prophecy of the destruction of the temple in 70 AD and at the end of the age.
Also when they say peace and safety of 1 Thessalonians 5 sudden destruction comes speaks of Daniel's 70th period of 7 years.
Paul's school wanted to get along with the Romans but Paul gave up on the Jews as a people group. Individual Jews accepted salvation through Jesus. The Jews persecuted the Christians. They are the Jews.
Also when they say peace and safety of 1 Thessalonians 5 sudden destruction comes speaks of Daniel's 70th period of 7 years.
Paul's school wanted to get along with the Romans but Paul gave up on the Jews as a people group. Individual Jews accepted salvation through Jesus. The Jews persecuted the Christians. They are the Jews.
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Because I wanted to see what other people thought. I think the scriptures warn of a conspiracy by these "they" and "them". I don't want to lean on my own understanding.
Paul never gave up on the Jews as a group. In fact, he said that his heart ached and he grieved for them (his brothers/countrymen). Also, he wouldn't have written in Romans 11 about God not casting away His people if he had just decided to wash his hands of them.
You should have replied to Enoch987. I don't believe all the passages are for Jews. I wish God would give me (a woman) permission to teach them. I have enough Old Testament Scriptures to PROVE that Jesus is their Messiah. I even have them printed out. I thought about posting them here, but didn't want to be called out for hypocricy. I think obedience to God is extremely important.
My opinion is Paul gave up on the Jews as a group because he devoted his ministry to the gentiles. Paul knew that Jesus didn't give up on the Jews as a group and that "one day all Israel would be saved." That's in Romans 11?
The most interesting way Paul proved that Jesus is the Messiah is he praised God the Father and the Lord Jesus Christ in the openings of all of his letters. Paul respected the godhead in the OT where there is YHWH God of hosts, YHWH of hosts and the Holy One of Israel (Jeremiah 50-51 and Isaiah 7-10).
Curiously, Paul didn't include the Holy Spirit in his openings.
And Paul in Colossians and the writer of Hebrews call Jesus the firstborn Son who was chosen (Luke 9:35).
This fits the archetypes of Shem, Abram, Isaac, Jacob, Joseph, Ephraim.
The most interesting way Paul proved that Jesus is the Messiah is he praised God the Father and the Lord Jesus Christ in the openings of all of his letters. Paul respected the godhead in the OT where there is YHWH God of hosts, YHWH of hosts and the Holy One of Israel (Jeremiah 50-51 and Isaiah 7-10).
Curiously, Paul didn't include the Holy Spirit in his openings.
And Paul in Colossians and the writer of Hebrews call Jesus the firstborn Son who was chosen (Luke 9:35).
This fits the archetypes of Shem, Abram, Isaac, Jacob, Joseph, Ephraim.
What??? No other ideas of who "they" and "them" are???? Sad. My people are destroyed for lack of knowledge.
Your post would have gotten more views if you posted this on the Bible forum. What are your ideas of how they and them are. Let me guess, another they is the unbelieving world who will experience God's wrath (1 Peter 4).
I would like to read your proofs of Jesus as the Jewish Messiah in the OT.
Chuck Missler offers that project as a challenge.
He says that in the book of Acts, there are 12 speeches by 7 people that do this.
I offer an unusual proof, Zimri in Numbers 25 is run through with a spear by Phineas which stops the plague cased by God for Israel's immorality. The death of Zimri saves Israel. 24000 had been killed. First Corinthians 10:8 says 23000 were killed in one day. Why wouldn't Paul use the 24000 number?
I posit that the number 23 and the phrase 2 or 3 represent Jesus in the OT and NT.
How many people were saved in Paul's shipwreck in Acts? 276 = (23x12) Jesus saves.
Most members of this chatroom will say my interpretation of the Bible's numbers belongs in the conspiracy forum.
I would like to read your proofs of Jesus as the Jewish Messiah in the OT.
Chuck Missler offers that project as a challenge.
He says that in the book of Acts, there are 12 speeches by 7 people that do this.
I offer an unusual proof, Zimri in Numbers 25 is run through with a spear by Phineas which stops the plague cased by God for Israel's immorality. The death of Zimri saves Israel. 24000 had been killed. First Corinthians 10:8 says 23000 were killed in one day. Why wouldn't Paul use the 24000 number?
I posit that the number 23 and the phrase 2 or 3 represent Jesus in the OT and NT.
How many people were saved in Paul's shipwreck in Acts? 276 = (23x12) Jesus saves.
Most members of this chatroom will say my interpretation of the Bible's numbers belongs in the conspiracy forum.
My proofs are much more basic. Most specifically I prove from several OT prophets that Messiah would have 2 appearings. Plain as day! Zech. 1:16, 8:3, Hosea5:15, Joel 2:14 and lastly, Isaiah 9:6. Plus all the pictures in OT. I just don't feel comfortable teaching. Plus all the warnings Jews would need before coming to Christ.
Explain how Joel 2:14 shows 2 appearings, "I will leave behind a grain offering and a drink offering."
My interpretation; While he was in prison, Joseph's baker was executed but the wine cup bearer lived.
The Jesus' body died but His Spirit lived.
In the festival of booths, the amount of grain used is a bit more than 35 ephahs which is around the age that Jesus died.
There were 66 hins of oil that was mixed with the grain and 6 hins of wine was poured out during the 8 day festival.
Hosea 5:15, I might accuse you of quoting out of context but that is often how the HolySpirit tells prophecy.
There were 66 of Jacob's family that moved to Egypt to escape famine (Genesis 46).