If you're open to learning you will understand yourself and the world you live in and then the fear of the unknown will leave you, then you will no longer cling to things that help you cope with whats unknown.
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Who Goes to Heaven?
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Even a 'demon' can be 'honest' and do 'right', in 'disguise'.
as it is written;
"Even satan 'disguises himself as an angel of light', and it is no surprise that 'his servants disguises themselves as servants of righteousness'."
Apostle Paul was referring to those who are 'disguised' as believers, who have gone ahead of them, who also give their own testimony/word regarding the Gospel to the church.
Mostly the epistles of the Apostles cautions about 'counterfeits' and 'imposters' disguised as in the faith but they are ctually 'raven wolves' who have 'sneaked in' and 'blending in' to 'beguile' those who are 'weak lambs and sheep'.
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forsha
Guest
Matt 7:13-14, Those who go into both gates are born again. Those in the broad way are believing and teaching a doctrine that Christ did not teach. Those in the narrow way are those who have searched and found the church that Jesus set up when he was on the earth and teaches the doctrine that Jesus taught. "FEW', does not indicate those that are going to heaven, because those that are going to heaven are as the stars in heaven and the sand of the sea. If you are looking for the church that Christ set up, do not look at the mega churches.
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forsha
Guest
David got in trouble with God for numbering Israel and caused thousands of them to die for his punishment.(2 Chronicles 21). We should be careful about numbering the saved and the unsaved.
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forsha
Guest
Our faith is not the redeeming factor in our eternal salvation, but Jesus's faithfulness to go to the cross is the factor, man has no part in his eternal salvation, Eph 2:5. The carnal man does not even have access to faith until he is already born of the Spirit which faith is a fruit of.
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F
forsha
Guest
Repenting and believing is not the cause of your eternal salvation, but they are a product of the Holy Spirit that is within you.
Please also refer those from Genesis, not only the 'born again', and that also 'numbers the stars in the sky'.
JESUS also 'rejects' believers, as workers of 'lawlessness/iniquity', in Matthew chapter 7.
The 'few' JESUS meant was only 'a few' of the New Covenant 'abiding' ones.
JESUS even said that when HE returns, will HE find anyone left in 'faith', according to the written New Covenant.
Actually the 'broad way' are the 'way' of unbelievers.
The 'narrow way' which is very difficult to follow is the teaching of CHRIST written in the New Covenant, and 'only a few' are those who 'abide' in them and even 'lay down their lives in repentance', according to the Spiritual sound doctrine teaching of CHRIST, the written New Covenant structure and order. The other 'many believers' are 'rejected'.
As it is also clearly written in the same Gospel that;
"Many are 'called' (to become Christian), but only 'a few' are chosen (who have become Christian 'faithful' under the New Covenant structure and order of GOD, as 'spirit' men and women)."
The 'product' of the HOLY SPIRIT is also the 'HOLY BIBLE', as reference to our 'practicing faith'. If there is no similarity, then there is another 'jesus' and another 'spirit' in 'disguise', due to another Gospel preached. Apostle Paul is the one who 'expose' this 'deception' working in church, who have welcomed gladly such people, who were with the Apostles once but have gone ahead of them and boldly preaching a 'false gospel' in the churches.
There are 'such' ever since and today. They will be separated only on 'harvest day' and meantime they will be growing together, GOD giving them an opportunity for them to come to their senses and 'repent', as spoken according to the 'parable of JESUS', written in the HOLY BIBLE Gospel.
Why baptized in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:
there is a way to salvation
-We are reconciled to God by the death of Jesus Christ (Romans 5:10).
For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son,
much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.
-by his goodness the Father brings us to and grants us repentance (Romans 2:4).
Or despisest thou the riches of his goodness and forbearance and longsuffering;
not knowing that the goodness of God leadeth thee to repentance?
-After repentance, we are to be baptized. (Acts 2:38).
Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ
for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive (the gift) of the Holy Ghost.
-It is the Spirit that actually begets us as sons of God (Romans 8:9, 14, 16-17).
-the begetting agent that comes from God, the Holy Spirit is the earnest or
down payment, of our salvation (Ephesians 1:14; Romans 8:16).
16The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God:
-That Spirit, God’s power, actually dwells in us after baptism (Acts 2:38; 4:8, 31; Ezekiel 36:27).
27And I will put (my spirit) within you, and (cause you to walk) in (my statutes),
and ye shall (keep my judgments, and do them).
- was given to witness to the world.
8 But ye shall (receive power), after that (the Holy Ghost) is come (upon you):
and ye shall be (witnesses) unto me both in Jerusalem, and in all Judaea, and in Samaria,
and unto the (uttermost part) of the earth.
The secret of the Lord is with them that fear him; and he will shew them his covenant.
there is a way to salvation
-We are reconciled to God by the death of Jesus Christ (Romans 5:10).
For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son,
much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.
-by his goodness the Father brings us to and grants us repentance (Romans 2:4).
Or despisest thou the riches of his goodness and forbearance and longsuffering;
not knowing that the goodness of God leadeth thee to repentance?
-After repentance, we are to be baptized. (Acts 2:38).
Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ
for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive (the gift) of the Holy Ghost.
-It is the Spirit that actually begets us as sons of God (Romans 8:9, 14, 16-17).
-the begetting agent that comes from God, the Holy Spirit is the earnest or
down payment, of our salvation (Ephesians 1:14; Romans 8:16).
16The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God:
-That Spirit, God’s power, actually dwells in us after baptism (Acts 2:38; 4:8, 31; Ezekiel 36:27).
27And I will put (my spirit) within you, and (cause you to walk) in (my statutes),
and ye shall (keep my judgments, and do them).
- was given to witness to the world.
8 But ye shall (receive power), after that (the Holy Ghost) is come (upon you):
and ye shall be (witnesses) unto me both in Jerusalem, and in all Judaea, and in Samaria,
and unto the (uttermost part) of the earth.
The secret of the Lord is with them that fear him; and he will shew them his covenant.
V
Viligant_Warrior
Guest
Repentance doesn't save. Repentance prepares our spirits for salvation. We have to "repent" = change our mind, about God before we will believe God.
Now, I've got a question for everyone on the thread: Is heaven why we believe? I mean, is that the goal of our faith?
V
Viligant_Warrior
Guest
Yep. That kingdom is within us as believers for now, to be ushered in at the Millennial Kingdom later, and between now and however we meet Jesus face to face, we're to do everything we can to help build that kingdom in others. That's why we believe.
No, it is not within us. It has not come to earth as of yet...
Luk 19:12 He said therefore, A certain nobleman went into a far country to receive for himself a kingdom, and to return.
The disciples asked an interesting question...
Act 1:6 When they therefore were come together, they asked of him, saying, Lord, wilt thou at this time restore again the kingdom to Israel?
They did not think the Kingdom was inside them...
Act 1:7 And he said unto them, It is not for you to know the times or the seasons, which the Father hath put in his own power.
Notice what Christ inspired John to write?
Rev 12:10 And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ: for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night.
When?
Rev 11:15 And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever.
Not now, at the seventh trump.
Who is it that looks for the kingdom of God on the earth? The church? Israel? The kingdom of God is in heaven with Christ and the Father. The church looks not for a kingdom on the earth but to be with her Lord and Savior in heaven. Jesus said except a man be born again he cannot see the kingdom of God.
Did Israel look for the kingdom of God to come upon the earth with Christ? Yes that is one of the reasons why Judas betrayed Christ. The apostles were looking for the kingdom of God but were told it would be when Christ returned. Israel seeks an earthly kingdom while the church seeks a heavenly kingdom. These are together in the new heaven and the new earth after the 1000 years of Christ ruling on this world.
For the cause of Christ
Roger
V
Viligant_Warrior
Guest
Then Paul must have been wrong, huh?
Ephesians 1, NASB
13 InHim, you also, after listening to the message of truth, the gospel of your salvation — having also believed, you were sealed in Him with the Holy Spirit of promise,
14 who is given as a pledge of our inheritance, with a view to the redemption of God’s own possession, to the praise of His glory.
13 InHim, you also, after listening to the message of truth, the gospel of your salvation — having also believed, you were sealed in Him with the Holy Spirit of promise,
14 who is given as a pledge of our inheritance, with a view to the redemption of God’s own possession, to the praise of His glory.
"Sealed with in Him -- the Greek is sfragizo and it means "to put a seal upon for: security from Satan; to hide as a letter in an envelope; as a mark; a confirmation; proofed as a text." There can be no doubt that a person with the "seal of the Holy Spirit of promise" is not only secure from Satan and therefore never to be subject to condemnation, but he/she is confirmed in Christ, "as a pledge of our inheritance."
We've gone over this before. People read this and read this and read this, and then pretend it doesn't say what it clearly states: arrabon is a "downpayment, earnest money." It is the confirmation of a promise for a set amount to be paid at a later date. It confirms a real estate contract, is in fact a legal term relative to a real estate transaction in the first century. So then the issue is, who makes the pledge? Obvious, God does. What requirement has He made of the one to whom He pays this earnest money?
None. Nada. Zilch. Zero. Big fat goose egg. There is no requirement. Faith meets the requirement, and that doesn't even come from within us. It is God-given -- the believer having nothing within him/herself that can even cause him/her to even seek God, much less believe Him. Everything comes from God: The faith to believe, the "down payment" confirming God's contract -- it is all God-given.
What is promised with this down payment? The "view to the redemption of God's own possession: Us! Please don't make the mistake of thinking "view" somehow qualifies that as some contractual obligation upon us. That is the simple Greek word eiß: "for, to, towards." It is His guarantee that our belief on Christ for salvation and eternal life will be honored at either the end of our life or our transfiguration, whenever that you want to believe that comes, depending on your end-times doctrine. There is no quibbling, equivocation, or codicils ruling that redemption. We believed once, we are promised resurrection, salvation -- heck, we've had that since we confessed Christ! -- eternal life, redemption, the kingdom of God. End of story.
R
Rudimental
Guest
Welcome to your first lesson on faith. Believing in the unseen.
Hebrews 11:1 Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.
You don't need to see it to believe its there.
Of course it does. If you believe in and love God then your heart is set on Him not on what you want to do.
Nasty with faith? Some can really ram it down people's throats can't they. I guess thats what people are like when they so passionately believe in something that is very apparent to them. Sometimes you don't even have to believe it to see the evidence before you. But if anyone has hurt your feelings deliberately in anyway that brother needs to be rebuked.
Who is "they" specifically do you mean? Those people that don't believe and or/nor do His will?
God is justice. So by nature, justice must be served on all those that sin against His supreme and Holy will. He's not doing it to be "mean" for the sake of it. He HAS to do it as that is His nature. Everything has been laid out for us in the bible all you have to do is accept His Son as your personal Lord and Saviour. If you go on and keep sinning after you have come to know the truth then there isn't indeed any sacrifice left for you. But God is much more passionate and compassionate about you than you think or give Him (or could ever) give Him credit for. I believe He is even now working out a plan to find your heart that He will achieve one day.
But you can't go on sinning because there is no sacrifice for the sinner that goes on sinning even though they "know" it to be wrong. These are the people that think they are okay with God but are not and are the ones that need to let go of that sin and hold onto God and the joy that comes with the hope and faith in Jesus that even though we are dead in our sins, in our faith, as poor as it often is, yay, even while we are sinning, He intercedes for us. He. Our Lord and Saviour who lives today seated at the right hand side of God our Father Himself. He steps in and saves us instead of being thrown into that lake of fire because we believe in Him. Yay even though we are sinners, plural or sinning. He steps in for us as our lawyer and His sacrifice on the cross for us is our redemption. Truly He was wounded for our transgressions, and He was crushed for our iniquities. Evil punished innocence and evil lost when it done that. Thanks be to Christ.
Oh brother, ye of little faith and compassion and knowledge too. It is not "by works" you are saved and redeemed. But by "faith"! How many times do some people need to hear these words!
Being a bad neighbor wont keep you out of Heaven if you are a believer. We're all essentially just bad neighbors until we're made perfect again. We will all be judged and rewarded according to our works yes. This much we know. Whether you was a good Christian or a bad Christian. You be rewarded suchly. If you was a believer then you will be saved to spend eternity with our Lord and Father forever. And everyone gets a mansion too!
John 14:2 In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you.
You are right though that IS the highest most ultimate goal at the end of the day. To have love and know the love of God. If I have all the riches and fame in the world for ever but I don't have love, I have nothing, I am nothing. After all, God is love. Infinite love whos ways and thoughts are much higher than ours. Real love isn't just some random chemical reaction thats happening in our brains. It's deeper than that and comes from your heart, your very soul. Although I suspect you are a person who thinks you could explain it all mathematically and through science?
What things is it that you mean a Christian "clings" to specifically? Do you mean The Holy Bible? I understand more about the world I live in now that I know the truth and how things work than I did before. I am millions of other people around the world learn this truth when they come to know about Jesus. If you deny it all (and there's so much of it) then you are surely just kidding yourself. There is no fear of the unknown for the Christian. Just hope of eternal bliss with Him. Although I'm sure we'll still have to work.
But who are you to say that person isn't right to do live like that since we all have to taste death and find out the same way eventually anyway.
So what have we learned from yourself from your comments in this thread and what is the best thing for us to do now?
We've learned that it's be our faith in God that will grant us eternal life. If we have faith, we have hope. If we have hope, hope that comes from having the bible, then we have joy and all the rewards that come with it after in the next life.
We've learned that if we have love for our father like any child/son/daughter should have for their parent then we'll have a healthy working relationship the way it should be.
We've learned not to judge anyone else for their belief or way of life since we all came from dust and return to it anyway.
We've learned that some Christians can be very zealous and over do it when preaching/debating etc and this can cause the recipient to become annoyed. We only need to share the word and His message. In such a way as to let our light shine through to the world. Not force it on anyone. All we need to do is plant the seed. Let God provide the water.
All the best!
Repenting and believing is the cause of a persons Salvation. They are NOT a product of the Holy Spirit that is within us.
A person repents and believes in Jesus through their own free will, a person must repent of his/her sins, and must believe that Jesus is the Son of God and dies for us and rose from the dead. The Holy Spirit of God does NOT do that, that is what a person does and that person becomes SAVED. Now once SAVED, once they repent and accept Jesus Christ as their Savior and Lord, it is only AFTER that a person can receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. A person does not receive the Holy Spirit then gets SAVED, They first have to repent and believe and be SAVED, then the Holy Spirit it given to them, through the Holy Spirit baptism at which point they may receive one or several gifts of that Holy Spirit.
But repenting and believing MUST take place first, before a person is SAVED, and BEFORE they have the Holy Spirit of God.
^i^ Responding to post # 47