Who is an anti-christ?

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Thanks Fran, that's a great reply.
Be ready for backlash when you say that to one of them.

Actually, I did speak to the person who believes all are saved.
We're friends. He says I make a lot of sense, but he won't agree that some are not saved.
No backlash, but his belief colors every N.T. lesson he gives.
I don't think I could do more than this...
It's a tough situation when you hear wrong doctrine coming from the pulpit - Those that should be guiding us!
What to do??

Fran
 
Yes, so it should not be surprising that many antichrists are out and about today.
Now, if we know who they are and can show why they are false, should we be naming them to warn others?
This would surely cause problems among us, don't you think?
What should we do?

I do believe we should be warning people. But herein lies the rub..what is anti-Christ to one - is not to another.

Take something like the gifts of the Holy Spirit - there are people that say they are not for today - there are people that say they are for today. The people that say they are not for today can call the other group as heretics and some even name the people,..and vice versa.

Perhaps what might be something to think about - what are the core realities of salvation in Christ?
 
I do believe we should be warning people. But herein lies the rub..what is anti-Christ to one - is not to another.

Take something like the gifts of the Holy Spirit - there are people that say they are not for today - there are people that say they are for today. The people that say they are not for today can call the other group as heretics and some even name the people,..a nd vice versa.

Perhaps what might be something to think about - what are the core realities of salvation in Christ?
I personally do not have a big audience.
I was chased out of my church 6 months ago as the only person believing that what they were teaching and believing was wrong.
I now go to a little mission church for the poor and homeless.
These are real people.
But the big church down the street that everyone is talking about, I found to be cold.
False doctrine?
No, but I didn't feel the love of God radiating from the people.
They were simply cold.
If the greatest gift of all that God give's is missing, then what are they teaching?
 
I personally do not have a big audience.
I was chased out of my church 6 months ago as the only person believing that what they were teaching and believing was wrong.
I now go to a little mission church for the poor and homeless.
These are real people.
But the big church down the street that everyone is talking about, I found to be cold.
False doctrine?
No, but I didn't feel the love of God radiating from the people.
They were simply cold.
If the greatest gift of all that God can give's is missing, then what are they teaching?


I hear ya'

Paul had some things to say to the Corinthian church about their behavior and yet he still said that they were the righteousness of God in Christ. That they were sanctified and complete in Him. It seems Paul told them who they were ( their true identity in Christ ) and then proceeded to tell them what that life should look like.

The answer to me is to preach Christ and all of His fullness in the gospel of grace as it is only the true gospel that has the power of God to effect changes in us.
 
The Bible says in the end times there will be many anti-christs, and we already have many anti-christs.
They will deny that Jesus is the Messiah.
Is there anything else?
Could a church make a Statement of Faith that says "you must be born again" but then preach and teach and live something a little different, would they be an anti-christ?
How else may we understand who is an anti-christ?
How about those that say we can bypass Jesus and go directly to the Father.
Are they anti-christs?
Can anyone help here to understand what we need to be looking for?

It seeks to me the anti-christs are those who follow their egos rather than the Lord. They want to be popular here on earth rather than obey the Lord's commandments. They are the social climbers - the hypocrites. They would sell you out in a moment if they thought it would help them climb the social ladder.
 
I do believe we should be warning people. But herein lies the rub..what is anti-Christ to one - is not to another.

Take something like the gifts of the Holy Spirit - there are people that say they are not for today - there are people that say they are for today. The people that say they are not for today can call the other group as heretics and some even name the people,..and vice versa.

Perhaps what might be something to think about - what are the core realities of salvation in Christ?
You bring up an interesting point but I don't think I agree.

Is there not an objective truth?
Can we be pulled to and fro without the possibility of knowing this truth?

If one says the gifts are still present in the church and another says they are not - surely one of them is wrong.
Don't you agree?

With careful exegesis of the bible, theologians will agree. To me, it seems easy enough to spot a heresy.

A big problem that I see is that in the past, especially when the church was new, heresies came from within the church but the heretic was expelled.

Today, the heresies are still coming from within the church, but the heretics remain in the church and those who do not adhere are forced to leave.

This is new to the best of my knowledge, and signals a big change.

We've become accustomed to relativism - everything is right! So when people are told they're wrong, it's difficult for them to accept that they might be. Secularism has entered our churches. People want to hear what sounds good, not what God wants to say.

My two cents.

Fran
 
You bring up an interesting point but I don't think I agree.

Is there not an objective truth?
Can we be pulled to and fro without the possibility of knowing this truth?

If one says the gifts are still present in the church and another says they are not - surely one of them is wrong.
Don't you agree?

With careful exegesis of the bible, theologians will agree. To me, it seems easy enough to spot a heresy.

A big problem that I see is that in the past, especially when the church was new, heresies came from within the church but the heretic was expelled.

Today, the heresies are still coming from within the church, but the heretics remain in the church and those who do not adhere are forced to leave.

This is new to the best of my knowledge, and signals a big change.

We've become accustomed to relativism - everything is right! So when people are told they're wrong, it's
difficult for them to accept that they might be. Secularism has entered our churches. People want to hear what sounds good, not what God wants to say.

My two cents.

Fran

I do believe that one of the groups that say gifts are NOT for today is wrong....and the other group would say that the other one is wrong. That's the whole problem.

Truth is progressive too. I don't believe everything any preacher preaches no matter who they are. I hope that 2 years from now I will not believe what I do now in some areas as the Holy Spirit reveals Jesus to me in a fuller way.

I think the so-called heretics were in the church all the time as Jesus said that the tares would be in with the wheat and to not pull them out.

Actually we can take any subject that people have a different opinion on and each camp has their own Greek and Hebrew scholars saying opposite things. I really don't take Greek scholars as absolute proof of anything. I do love to read them though but only the Holy Spirit can give revelation.

I think the Holy Spirit is getting those ready for His work that have an open and receptive heart .

I guess we will see what happens and I am totally dependent on the Holy Spirit to lead me.

You are right too about there is so much going on and the main thing I see in the body of Christ is the lack of love and the many divisions. We can agree to disagree on non-major things too as we only know in apart and we need each other.
 
Those who deny the Father and the Son. 1John 2:22

the religion of antichrist is Islam, which as a profession of faith denies the Father and the Son.

There it shows you cant have the Father without the Son and Jesus is the Christ, the Son of the living God, to deny Jesus is the Christ is antichrist and by that same denial denieth the Father and the Son

1 John 2:22
Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ?
He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son.

Denying both is in denying the one (even the Son) who is the Christ

1 John 2:23
Whosoever denieth the Son,
the same hath not the Father:
[(but) he that acknowledgeth the Son hath the Father also].

Acknowledging the Son hath the Father also, as we believe God sent his son whom he made both Lord and Christ (Acts 2:36)
 
1Jo 2:18 Little children, it is the last time: and as ye have heard that antichrist shall come, even now are there many antichrists; whereby we know that it is the last time.

There are many different ideas. One that works the best for me today I will offer below. My two cents..

The antichrist (singular )is Satan. Because he has come in the last days and especially in lieu of the first century reformation and the tribulation in regard to it that had come upon the world.This is where there was no longer any outward signs of Jewish identity in respect to the ceremonial law that were finished as shadows and types when Christ had defeated the fathers of lies. The veil was rent signaling the beginning of the reformation. The world in respect to the law of God, the scriptures and the new name he called His born again people, Christians, had begun.

Now that Satan, the serpent had fallen from heaven and no longer met before God with the angels that did not leave there first place of habitat , as did Satan, there are many antichrists (plural) . One of the keys is in the name something it seems many do not see or believe.. Christ is the anointing Holy Spirit of God. The antichrist would be another who would anoints the teaching of men as mimicking the Holy Spirit, also called the Spirit of Christ .Again it has to with anointing in respect to the teacher that we do abide in as he teaches us...

The many antichrists are men in whom the father of lies has seduced to believe they need a man to anoint us and therefore teach us .And therefore walking by faith (not seen) in respect to the true anointing Holy Spirit of God is taken out of the way. In the end because of the blasphemy, rendering the word of God the gospel of our salvation to no effect.

Verses 26 and 27 continue to add to the His motive of operation. It begins with “these things” in respect to the antichrist and the antichrists (verses 18) ,as two different entities. One not seen Satan, the one an only antichrist who has no form and deceived man that does has form ,and the antichrists.(the many) as those who have seduced to believe the lie.

Many today are looking for an antichrist (Hollywood style) who does have form , with horns, tails of scorpions, face like a man ,hair like a woman (etc) and would even try an accredit it (the antichrist)to one individual like the Pope. Who I think is one of the more successful antichrists (many) because the Catholic must walk by sight and not by faith . But he is not thee one and only antichrist, Satan. it is never accredited to men even though he uses men as antichrists( followers.)

These things have I written unto you concerning them that seduce you.But the “anointing which ye have received of him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you”: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, “ye shall abide in him”. 1Jo 2:26

He is none other than the father of lies working to deceive men to believe they need men to anoint them by teaching them so that they can put their faith is something seen.(walking by sight) They in effect become the anointing ones, mimicking Christ the true anointing Holy Spirit of God. It is the serpents motive of operation he used in the garden when Satan who has no form spoke through a creatures to draw man away from God who has no form. It can also be viewed I believe by distinguishing the” things of God” from “those of men”. it is there that the antichrist(Satan) gets his foot into the door of the church mimicking God as if he was in the place of Christ the true anointing Holy Spirit of God. .

We can see the working of the antichrist (Satan) seducing antichrists (men) in action in Mathew 16. This is where Satan the father of lies according to his lies deceived Peter through the oral traditions of the fathers and tried to use Peter as one of the antichrists , or we could say disciple of the father of lies to try and make the gospel without effect by putting his lies on Peters tongue and rebuking the Lord of glory and commanding him that in respect to the gospel he would not allow Christ to finish the work of salvation . Knowing his time was short.

Then Peter took him, and began to rebuke him, saying, Be it far from thee, Lord: this "shall not be unto thee".But he turned, and said unto Peter, Get thee behind me, Satan: "thou art an offence unto me": for thou savourest not "the things that be of God", (not seen) but "those that be of men"(as that seen) Mat 16:22

Note... above .(purple in parentheses) my person opinion to try and help understand the point I am trying to make.

2Corinthians 5:7 (For we walk by faith, not by sight:)


2Corinthians 10:3 For though we walk in the flesh, we do not war after the flesh:
 
Here is wisdom. Let him that hath understanding count the number of the beast: for it is the number of a man; and his number is Six hundred threescore and six.

(Revelation 13:18 KJV)

What does it mean exactly?? I haz no clue.

It has to do with technology,for the beasts agenda,is to establish a world based on the occult,and there is no personal God to help mankind,and people's technology,and devices,is the answer to solve the problems of the world.

χξς
chi xi stigma
khee xee stig'-ma
The 22nd, 14th and an obsolete letter (G4742 as a cross) of the Greek alphabet (intermediate between the 5th and 6th), used as numbers; denoting respectively 600, 60 and 6; 666 as a numeral: - six hundred threescore and six.

στίγμα
stigma
stig'-mah
From a primary word στίζω stizō (to “stick”, that is, prick); a mark incised or punched (for recognition of ownership), that is, (figuratively) scar of service: - mark.

I believe the mark of the beast is a microchip put underneath the skin,with a hypodermic needle,which is used for identification of the person,all information about them,the one world economic system,which no man may buy,or sell,without the mark,all on computer,with all their information,and a picture of them.

This is the beasts answer to achieve peace on earth,for with the microchip,which will be picked up by satellite,they will know everyone's location on earth.

If a crime happens they will know who was in the area at that time,which they will believe will cut down considerably on crime,for people will fear,knowing they will be found out,and if they try to get rid of the mark in the hand,or forehead,then they cannot buy,or sell,and cannot buy food.

Rev 16:2 And the first went, and poured out his vial upon the earth; and there fell a noisome and grievous sore upon the men which had the mark of the beast, and upon them which worshipped his image.

The first wrath of God causes a noisome and grievous sore upon the people that took the mark,which might mean there is lithium in the mark,to keep it charged,or something else that keeps it charged,and God causes the chip to break open,and leak that substance in to their skin,which what they believed would bring about a better system,and not honoring a personal God,God caused it to come to nought.

666 is the number of a man,the man of sin.The man of sin is of the occult,and the occult believes in the power of numbers,and will group numbers together,thinking there is more power there,and they believe the number 6 is the number of a man,so the man of sin has the number 666 assigned to him,for he believes it will give him more power.
 
"What is the mark of the beast?"

Answer:
The main passage in the Bible that mentions the “mark of the beast” is Revelation 13:15-18. Other references can be found in Revelation 14:9, 11, 15:2, 16:2, 19:20, and 20:4. This mark acts as a seal for the followers of Antichrist and the false prophet (the spokesperson for the Antichrist). The false prophet (the second beast) is the one who causes people to take this mark. The mark is literally placed in the hand or forehead and is not simply a card someone carries.

The recent breakthroughs in medical implant chip and RFID technologies have increased interest in the mark of the beast spoken of in Revelation chapter 13. It is possible that the technology we are seeing today represents the beginning stages of what may eventually be used as the mark of the beast. It is important to realize that a medical implant chip is not the mark of the beast. The mark of the beast will be something given only to those who worship the Antichrist. Having a medical or financial microchip inserted into your right hand or forehead is not the mark of the beast. The mark of the beast will be an end-times identification required by the Antichrist in order to buy or sell, and it will be given only to those who worship the Antichrist.

Many good expositors of Revelation differ widely as to the exact nature of the mark of the beast. Besides the implanted chip view, other speculations include an ID card, a microchip, a barcode that is tattooed into the skin, or simply a mark that identifies someone as being faithful to the Antichrist's kingdom. This last view requires the least speculation, since it does not add any more information to what the Bible gives us. In other words, any of these things are possible, but at the same time they are all speculations. We should not spend a lot of time speculating on the precise details.

The meaning of 666 is a mystery as well. Some speculated that there was a connection to June 6, 2006—06/06/06. However, in Revelation chapter 13, the number 666 identifies a person, not a date. Revelation 13:18tells us, “This calls for wisdom. If anyone has insight, let him calculate the number of the beast, for it is man's number. His number is 666.” Somehow, the number 666 will identify the Antichrist. For centuries Bible interpreters have been trying to identify certain individuals with 666. Nothing is conclusive. That is whyRevelation 13:18 says the number requires wisdom. When the Antichrist is revealed (2 Thessalonians 2:3-4), it will be clear who he is and how the number 666 identifies him.

http://www.gotquestions.org/mark-beast.html

Recommended Resources: Understanding End Times Prophecy by Paul Benware and Logos Bible Software.
 
I do believe that one of the groups that say gifts are NOT for today is wrong....and the other group would say that the other one is wrong. That's the whole problem.

Truth is progressive too. I don't believe everything any preacher preaches no matter who they are. I hope that 2 years from now I will not believe what I do now in some areas as the Holy Spirit reveals Jesus to me in a fuller way.

I think the so-called heretics were in the church all the time as Jesus said that the tares would be in with the wheat and to not pull them out.

Actually we can take any subject that people have a different opinion on and each camp has their own Greek and Hebrew scholars saying opposite things. I really don't take Greek scholars as absolute proof of anything. I do love to read them though but only the Holy Spirit can give revelation.

I think the Holy Spirit is getting those ready for His work that have an open and receptive heart .

I guess we will see what happens and I am totally dependent on the Holy Spirit to lead me.

You are right too about there is so much going on and the main thing I see in the body of Christ is the lack of love and the many divisions. We can agree to disagree on non-major things too as we only know in apart and we need each other.
Hi Grace777

Just a few thoughts re what you wrote above.

You say that you hope in a couple of years you will have progressed in your Christianity with the help of the Holy Spirit.
I agree. We start out with milk and should end up with solid food.

Paul speaks to this in 1 Corinthians 3:2. Here Paul says that he gave milk to new believers in Corinth because they were not yet ready to receive solid food. This shows that progression is expected. In fact in Hebrews 5:13 Paul states that he who partakes only of milk is not accustomed to the word of righteousness, for he is a babe, but solid food is for the mature.

In this regard I'd like to say that I think it's very important to belong to a church. Many Christians nowadays stay home and read their bible and come up with their own conclusions. Some are correct, and some are not - no mainline church would accept some of these ideas. This is solo scriptura and I find it could end up that the bible reader could have ideas that are not scriptural. (not to be confused with sola scriptura).

I find the best churches to be the ones who focus on Jesus and His sacrifice. Adding NOTHING to His salvific work. After initial salvation, I like churches that teach the Christian life - the beatitudes, etc. Believing, learning, doing. Yes, there is doing also. Some like to call this works - I like to call it what God expects from us as Christians.

Still in keeping with this idea of yours as to growth, I believe that each one of us will be judged solely on the light we have received. I think looking at other Christians and comparing ourselves to them can be helpful in using them as an example - but it could also be harmful, making one feel that he'll never "measure up." Each one of us has an individual and unique relationship with the Lord, and He will help each one of us in an individual manner.

My last point is regarding the wheat and the tares. One could use this parable however one wishes to understand it.
However, I hope you realize that the field in this parable is the world and not the church. Mathew 13.38 "The field is the world."
The tares represent unbelievers and not heretics. Mathew 13:38 "the tares are the sons of the evil one."

I think it's important to make this distinction because in Mathew 18 Jesus specifically tells us how to deal with unrepentant sinners. He said they are to be put out of the church and treated as unbelievers - not to let them stay as with the wheat and the tares.
Mathew 18:15.20

I also agree with you that we could squabble about little things, but we Christians should all agree on important doctrine.
Who Jesus is, why He had to offer Himself as a sacrifice, the Trinity, Sin, etc.

Fran
 
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Thank you for your answer but I was thinking more in line with this.
1 John 2:18;
"Dear children, this is the last hour; and you have heard that the antichrist is coming, even now many antichrists have come.
Yes, these people are deceivers, but who are they today?
Is it a church, a denomination, a person living down the street, just what should we be looking for?
Or am I making it too complicated?

Read a little further down....

[SUP]22 [/SUP]And who is a liar? Anyone who says that Jesus is not the Christ.[SUP][f][/SUP] Anyone who denies the Father and the Son is an antichrist.[SUP][g][/SUP] [SUP]23 [/SUP]Anyone who denies the Son doesn’t have the Father, either. But anyone who acknowledges the Son has the Father also.
 
The Spirit of Christ is the Spirit of Truth, so the spirit of antichrist is the opposite of (or opposed to) the Truth, being the spirit of a lie.

Here is a good study on how to compare how both God's Spirit of Truth, and the Devil's spirit of a lie speak in this world->>>>>http://christianchat.com/bible-discussion-forum/128000-spirit-gives-voice-horns.html

The spirit of truth...
The spirit of a lie...

Indeed. Nice!

John 8:44
"You belong to your father, the devil, and you want to carry out your father's desires. He was a murderer from the beginning, not holding to the truth, for there is no truth in him. When he lies, he speaks his native language, for he is a liar and the father of lies." NIV


Fran
I like your signature line --
 
Read a little further down....

[SUP]
[/SUP]And who is a liar? Anyone who says that Jesus is not the Christ.[SUP][f][/SUP] Anyone who denies the Father and the Son is an antichrist.[SUP][g][/SUP] [SUP]23 [/SUP]Anyone who denies the Son doesn’t have the Father, either. But anyone who acknowledges the Son has the Father also.


Hi Hornetguy
Yes. And there are many more heresies where that one comes from.

The O.P. is asking WHO the deceivers are today. A particular church, a denomination, a person down the street.
It's ALL of these.

And they seem to be accepted by "the church". I'm having difficulty deciding if the Church, or body of Christ, is accepting them. I would say yes, but then are they really a part of the Body??

Fran
 
The Bible says in the end times there will be many anti-christs, and we already have many anti-christs.
They will deny that Jesus is the Messiah.
Is there anything else?
Could a church make a Statement of Faith that says "you must be born again" but then preach and teach and live something a little different, would they be an anti-christ?
How else may we understand who is an anti-christ?
How about those that say we can bypass Jesus and go directly to the Father.
Are they anti-christs?
Can anyone help here to understand what we need to be looking for?
anti mean

anti
ˈanti/
[COLOR=#878787 !important]informal[/COLOR]
preposition
[COLOR=#878787 !important][/COLOR]

  • 1.
    opposed to; against.
    [COLOR=#878787 !important]"I'm anti the abuse of drink and the hassle that it causes"[/COLOR]



adjective
[COLOR=#878787 !important][/COLOR]

  • 1.
    opposed.
    [COLOR=#878787 !important]"the local councils are anti"[/COLOR]



noun
[COLOR=#878787 !important][/COLOR]

  • 1.
    a person opposed to a particular policy, activity, or idea.

    Antichrist
    ˈantɪkrʌɪst/
    noun
    [COLOR=#878787 !important][/COLOR]
    • (in some Christian teachings) a personal opponent of Christ expected to appear before the end of the world.
      [COLOR=#878787 !important]"the battle between Christ and the Antichrist"[/COLOR]
      • a person or force seen as opposing Christ or the Christian Church.
        [COLOR=#878787 !important]plural noun: Antichrists[/COLOR]
        [COLOR=#878787 !important]"St Paul really did have to fear for his life at the hands of an Antichrist named Nero"[/COLOR]
      • a person or thing regarded as supremely evil or as a fundamental enemy or opponent.
        [COLOR=#878787 !important]"they regard feminists like me as the Antichrist[/COLOR]










so in simple terms , no jesus, no god,

For God So Loved the World
16 "For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life

but why ask these questionsm if a child can understand etc
 
Last edited:
Who is an antichrist? Anyone who takes the place of Christ. Lucifer exalted himself above the congregation to take God's place. Isaiah 14.

Men exalt themselves above the congregation to take the place of Christ/God.

Matt.20:25-26. Matt. 23:4-12. 3John 9. 1Peter 5:3. Matt.23:5-7 for starters.

I feel the kettle boiling!
 
Hello Friends,

Here's an important element to the "antichrist" issue...

1. Antichrist is the spirit of sin/lawlessness (2 Th. 2:3).
2. Jesus Christ teaches OBEDIENCE to law (Mt. 4:4; 5:19; 7:21-23; 23:2-3,23,34; Lk. 10:25-28).
3. Lawlessness entails Torah-lessness.

CONCLUSION: Jesus Christ teaches Torah-obedience. Antichrist opposes Torah-obedience.

And our Christian establishment is inclined to reject Torah-obedience at various points....

Sigh...

Something is WRONG with this picture!

Let's expose the spirit of antichrist for what it is: the spirit of OPPOSITION to growth in obedience to Torah.

Sadly, many among us, even here, oppose obedience to the very Torah which the Father, Son, Spirit, Pentateuch, Prophets, Psalms, Proverbs, Apostles, and Epistles, (even Revelation!) all instruct us to obey.

Can we work together to correct this problem?

blessings...
BibleGuy
 
John says that Antichrists ''went out from us'' but they really did not belong to us otherwise they would have stayed.
He says that anyone who denies the Father and the Son is an Antichrist. We use this title to refer to the person who appears in the last days but actually he is never specifically called ''The Antichrist'' anywhere though its obvious that he is one. The passage in 1 John is the only place where the title is used and John seems to be talking about false Christians rather than a world dictator.