Who is Babylon? (poll)

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Who is Babylon?

  • Jerusalem/Israel/USA/Judaism

    Votes: 7 50.0%
  • Rome/Vatican/RCC

    Votes: 5 35.7%
  • Mecca/Islam

    Votes: 2 14.3%

  • Total voters
    14
Babylon will be the one-world religion which the pope of the end time will rule. So it will encompass all the religions of the world except those who belong to Lord Jesus.

That's why we're warned:

Revelation 18:4 Then I heard another voice from heaven say: “‘Come out of her, my people,’ so that you will not share in her sins, so that you will not receive any of her plagues;


🕊
Who is the pope?
 
Good reach but all were found scriptural, the text includes we are discussing says fornication which is in this context is idle worship.
Blasphemies and such. Which points to pagan worship.
Let's compare your findings with mine.

The seven hills of ancient Rome—Aventine, Caelian, Capitoline, Esquiline, Palatine, Quirinal, and Viminal—are iconic ridges east of the Tiber River, serving as the foundational sites of the early city. These hills were originally separate settlements that merged into a single entity, traditionally enclosed within the Servian Wall.

The Seven Hills of Rome
  • Palatine Hill (Palatino): Known as the center of the earliest settlement, traditionally founded by Romulus in 753 BC.
  • Capitoline Hill (Campidoglio): The citadel of Rome, hosting major temples like the Temple of Jupiter.
  • Aventine Hill (Aventino): Historically linked with the plebs (common people) and known for its temples.
  • Caelian Hill (Celio): Served as a residential area in the early period and a military area later.
  • Esquiline Hill (Esquilino): The largest hill, famous for housing Nero's "Golden House".
  • Quirinal Hill (Quirinale): Historically associated with the Sabines and now home to the Italian presidential palace.
  • Viminal Hill (Viminale): The smallest hill, known for containing the Baths of Diocletian.
    Britannica
    Britannica +4
Key Historical Context
  • Founding Site: The Palatine Hill is believed to be the spot where Romulus killed Remus and founded the city.
  • The Septimontium: These seven hills should not be confused with the ancient Septimontium festival, which originally celebrated seven different peaks.
  • Other Hills: Major hills such as the Janiculan, Vatican, and Pincian are not included in the traditional seven because they were outside the original, sacred boundary (pomerium) of the city.
In the time of John Rome was the ruler over all the land in his viewpoint... which matches the what was...is not .....still to come.

Also included is drunk by the blood of the saints. Who started the rumor that jews killed and ate Christians?
But lest nor forget Rome killing Christians by the thousands.
How about the Crusades coming from Catholics…..
 
No rumor.

Jesus was talking to the Jewish scribes and pharisees when He said this;

31“Therefore you are witnesses against yourselves that you are sons of those who murdered the prophets. 32Fill up, then, the measure of your fathers’ guilt. 33Serpents, brood of vipers! How can you escape the condemnation of hell? 34Therefore, indeed, I send you prophets, wise men, and scribes: some of them you will kill and crucify, and some of them you will scourge in your synagogues and persecute from city to city, 35that on you may come all the righteous blood shed on the earth, from the blood of righteous Abel to the blood of Zechariah, son of Berechiah, whom you murdered between the temple and the altar. 36Assuredly, I say to you, all these things will come upon this generation.

Being "drunk with blood" is symbolic language found elsewhere in the scriptures:

"I will make my arrows drunk with blood,
while my sword devours flesh"


No one thinks arrows and swords have mouths or teeth. Being "drunk with blood" is a phrase of art.

It's important to note that the saints were still killed after this generation Jesus spoke to. So any amalgamation of religious belief that targets people born of the Spirit is included in the vision of the woman riding the beast.

The enemy cannot create he can only pervert that which is already made. For our own benefit, God gives us templates with historical context so that we may recognize the fullness of the reality when it appears in the earth. Also, we are dealing with spiritual realities that manifest in the natural. So these things must be spiritually discerned by the mature.
Where does it even say, “drunk with blood?”
 
Where does it even say that? Scripture?

And upon her forehead was a name written, MYSTERY, BABYLON THE GREAT, THE MOTHER OF HARLOTS AND ABOMINATIONS OF THE EARTH. And I saw the woman drunken with the blood of the saints, and with the blood of the martyrs of Jesus: and when I saw her, I wondered with great admiration. Revelation 17:5-6
 
And upon her forehead was a name written, MYSTERY, BABYLON THE GREAT, THE MOTHER OF HARLOTS AND ABOMINATIONS OF THE EARTH. And I saw the woman drunken with the blood of the saints, and with the blood of the martyrs of Jesus: and when I saw her, I wondered with great admiration. Revelation 17:5-6
“Then he said to me, “The waters which you saw, where the harlot sits, are peoples, multitudes, nations, and tongues. And the ten horns which you saw on the beast, these will hate the harlot, make her desolate and naked, eat her flesh and burn her with fire. For God has put it into their hearts to fulfill His purpose, to be of one mind, and to give their kingdom to the beast, until the words of God are fulfilled. And the woman whom you saw is that great city which reigns over the kings of the earth.””
‭‭Revelation‬ ‭17‬:‭15‬-‭18‬ ‭NKJV‬‬
 
And upon her forehead was a name written, MYSTERY, BABYLON THE GREAT, THE MOTHER OF HARLOTS AND ABOMINATIONS OF THE EARTH. And I saw the woman drunken with the blood of the saints, and with the blood of the martyrs of Jesus: and when I saw her, I wondered with great admiration. Revelation 17:5-6
Ok got it. Thanks!

“Then he said to me, “The waters which you saw, where the harlot sits, are peoples, multitudes, nations, and tongues. And the ten horns which you saw on the beast, these will hate the harlot, make her desolate and naked, eat her flesh and burn her with fire. For God has put it into their hearts to fulfill His purpose, to be of one mind, and to give their kingdom to the beast, until the words of God are fulfilled. And the woman whom you saw is that great city which reigns over the kings of the earth.””
‭‭Revelation‬ ‭17‬:‭15‬-‭18‬ ‭NKJV‬‬
 
Who is the pope?


Whoever is the pope at the end times. The pope we have now is Pope Leo XIV (born Robert Francis Prevost). If he's still alive in the end times, then he's the false prophet. Not so coincidentally, the pope that crowned Charlesmagne is Pope Leo III.


🕊️
 
I have heard many different theories, and every theory I have heard has been based on the Bible, but none of them put together all the pieces.

Matthew 1:11 — The First Use of “Babylon”​

“And Josiah the father of Jechoniah and his brothers, at the time of the deportation to Babylon.”

This is the first use of Babylon in the New Testament, and it is used three times in chapter 1 of Matthew, every time with a reference to the word translated here as “deportation” (metoikesia).

Definition of metoikesia — removal from one abode to another, especially a forced removal.

In the Old Testament there was a removal of people from Israel to Babylon. How about in the church age? This is a key criterion to identify Babylon in the New Testament. It is simple to eliminate Iraq: in all of church history there has not been a great removal of people from one place to Iraq. We can also eliminate the Vatican — it may be the puppeteer, but there has been no great removal of people to go live there. In fact, when I visited Taiwan and Asia, that is what struck me: how homogenous the population was. There has not been a great removal of people to go live in Asia.

No, during the last two thousand years there has been one great removal of people to go live in the New World. That can refer to both North and South America, but primarily it would refer to the US. Not only so, but we can trace three “removals” strikingly similar to being removed to Babylon: the pilgrims fleeing persecution, African slaves being brought to the US as slaves, and the Irish fleeing a famine.

2 Kings 17:24 — The First Mention of Babylon​

“And the king of Assyria brought people from Babylon, Cuthah, Avva, Hamath, and Sepharvaim, and placed them in the cities of Samaria instead of the people of Israel. And they took possession of Samaria and lived in its cities.”

We can view modern Israel as being referred to here. When Israel was formed there was a removal of Jews from all over the world to the country — not as a holy expression of God, but as a mixture of pagan religions with the worship of God: a “Samaria.” This would depict the five major waves of immigration (Aliyah) of the Jews back to the Holy Land: Eastern Europe (Poland, Russia, Ukraine, Romania), Central Europe (Germany, Austria, Czechoslovakia), North Africa (Morocco, Tunisia, Algeria, Libya), the Middle East (Iraq, Iran, Syria, Yemen), and Southern and Western Europe.

These are the two major “carrying away”s of people during the church age: one is people being carried away to the “Great Babylon,” the US; the other is the immigrations to Israel, which at first is a mixture — a Samaria.

Acts 7:43 — Stephen’s Testimony​

“You took up the tent of Moloch and the star of your god Rephan, the images that you made to worship; and I will send you into exile beyond Babylon.”

This is the only reference in the book of Acts, and it is past tense, and it is from Saint Stephen prior to his martyrdom. I view Acts as giving us a picture of the tribulation, just as Ecclesiastes says: that which has been is that which shall be. The church age begins in the same way it will end. Stephen depicts the martyrs during the tribulation, and Babylon is judged at the start — so his reference indicates why those who are left behind are left behind.

He gives two reasons. First, they took up the tent of Moloch — a reference to infanticide. Abortion is the modern equivalent. But “you took up” is not a reference to pagans but to the people of God; this can apply equally to Christians and Jews during the church age, since both groups have covenants with God that would condemn idol worship and child sacrifice. The primary reason a woman has an abortion is not about health or rape; it is because the baby would be inconvenient to her career. She has made her career an idol that she worships with a human sacrifice. This can apply to both the US and Israel.

The second reason: they took up the star of your god Rephan. Anyone who knows the history of “Christmas” knows the pagan origin of the star placed on top of the tree is the star Rephan. As a child I was taught this star was the star of Bethlehem — “to the pure all things are pure.” But trying to make Christmas a Christian holiday has never worked. There is wonderful worship of the Lord’s incarnation and beautiful hymns, but there is also Santa (an anagram for Satan), flying reindeer (a mockery of the rapture), a thief in the night who comes down the chimney and replaces our promises from God with junk from the mall, elves (magical creatures depicting demons and fallen angels hidden in the ice), and a letter to Santa (teaching children to pray for things — to ask amiss). This is a holiday wrapped up in lies, and children learn not to trust their parents because they are liars. Children assume these stories are all biblical, and therefore that the Bible is also a lie.

Without a doubt this doesn’t just apply to the US but even more to the Vatican and the Catholic church. Who do you think is the puppeteer pulling the strings? The celebration of Christmas as a Christian holiday is relatively new, taking off in England at the time of Queen Victoria — but this celebration is embraced wholeheartedly by the Catholic church.

At first Christmas seems magical: beautiful lights, the tree, the stockings, the stories. But eventually you realize the whole thing is one big sham to push people to buy junk from the mall. FDR made Thanksgiving a national holiday to promote people going out to buy at the start of the Christmas season. It used to be people went around singing Christmas carols, hymns of God for the most part — that has become exceedingly rare. The Christmas Eve service may be beautiful, but only about 1% of Americans attend it, while far more attend Christmas parties with drunken excess and debauchery.

Psalm 137 — By the Waters of Babylon​

“By the waters of Babylon, there we sat down and wept, when we remembered Zion. On the willows there we hung up our lyres. For there our captors required of us songs, and our tormentors, mirth, saying, ‘Sing us one of the songs of Zion!’”

Songs of mirth are a good reference to Christmas songs. 49% of the world’s Jews live in the US; the other 49% live in Israel. This is a good description of Jews in America — like captives required to sing these Christmas songs, and now, because of DEI, required to also sing one of their own. Growing up, my best friend was named Joshua, a Russian Jew. His family found it very difficult to live in the US during Christmastime — I think that was the hardest time of year for him.

So this now ties the three big theories together. The Vatican is not where people were carried off to, but they are the ones teaching others to carry the star of Rephan. So far everything is pointing to the US as the Great Babylon, while Israel is like Samaria was — the land being repopulated with a mixed multitude from five surrounding regions.

 

1 Peter 5:13 — Writing from Babylon​

“She who is at Babylon, who is likewise chosen, sends you greetings, and so does Mark, my son.”

This is the only reference in the epistles. Peter started this epistle writing to those in the dispersion; he was writing from Babylon. Think of the church as a dandelion: when Jesus was crucified the seed was planted; at Pentecost it sprouted; in 70 AD God blew on Jerusalem and all the seeds scattered to the different parts of the world. Babylon depicts a great empire with all the languages of the world — which is what we saw during the church age. The Bible has been translated into 3,756 languages, based on one Google search. That was the point of Pentecost: everyone heard the good news in their native language. Peter was a great evangelist, and this depicts the message to the world coming from him while he is in Babylon.

You could argue the Vatican has been responsible for sending the gospel message to the whole earth. Perhaps. You could look at Britain as the place where great evangelical missions first came from. But today it is absolutely clear that the US is the base of the evangelistic message going out. YouTube and the Internet were both started here. The Gideons began here and have sent out 2.6 billion Bibles worldwide. Evangelists, missions, and the word of God are all being sent out from the US — not Britain, and certainly not the Vatican, which has actually condemned Evangelical Christians.

Isaiah 13:19 — The Glory of Kingdoms​

“And Babylon, the glory of kingdoms, the splendor and pomp of the Chaldeans, will be like Sodom and Gomorrah when God overthrew them.”

You can say a lot of things about Iraq or the Vatican, but this does not describe them. It does apply to the US and to Israel. Isn’t it interesting that Babylon — generally considered both a city and a kingdom — is compared to two cities? There may be many countries with treaties with Israel and on good terms with them, but when it comes to countries who stand shoulder to shoulder with Israel, it is only the US. So far, every verse in both Old and New Testament concerning Babylon describes the US and Israel.

This can only refer to the US at this moment in time. Chaldeans are always likened to great warriors. Ever since WWII, the US military has been seen as the elite among the elite — our Army Rangers and Navy SEALs are held in the highest regard among all militaries. The Israeli military is also highly regarded. But this would not refer to the Catholic church or the Vatican — even if corrupt and profligate, the Vatican is not like Sodom and Gomorrah, nor does it have a highly regarded military. This does not refer to France and Italy, whose armies are frequently mocked since WWII. No one would liken those two countries to “the glory of kingdoms.”

Revelation 14:8 and 16:19​

“Fallen, fallen is Babylon the great, she who made all nations drink the wine of the passion of her sexual immorality.” (Rev. 14:8)

This doesn’t simply say Babylon is like Sodom and Gomorrah — that could apply to many places: Israel, France, Italy, Greece, Thailand. No, this says she makes the nations drink the wine of the passion of her sexual immorality. No one can say Thailand, Greece, or Israel is making anyone drink that wine. If you are going to ascribe this to the movie industry, then we are talking about Hollywood. Interestingly, much of Hollywood is controlled by people who claim to be Jewish (though it is more likely they are descended from Esau and not Jacob), so you can tie Hollywood to both the US and to the Jews. It may also be that the Vatican bank is financing movies that do this, but to be fair I have no proof. My point is this verse also points to the US as the land of Babylon, while not ruling out the references to Israel and the Vatican.

“The great city was split into three parts, and the cities of the nations fell, and God remembered Babylon the great, to make her drain the cup of the wine of the fury of his wrath.” (Rev. 16:19)

In the Bible, “the great city” is Jerusalem — not Rome, London, or Washington DC. This is confirmed when it also says “and the cities of the nations fell.” “The nations” refers to every country other than Israel. So at the same time Jerusalem is split into three parts, cities like London, Paris, Hong Kong, and Berlin fall — and God remembers Babylon. Clearly Babylon is not Jerusalem, not Israel. We have already ruled out Rome and Iraq. The full fury of God’s wrath is drained on Babylon. At the time of John, “all the nations” would have included everyone in the Eastern hemisphere but not the US — they were not yet a nation and had no cities at that time. Rome was a city; if John were talking about “the cities of the nations,” you would think that would certainly include Rome. The fact that it doesn’t, and Babylon is named separately, points forward to a nation that did not yet exist when John wrote.

Isaiah 14:22 — Cut Off Without Remnant​

“‘I will rise up against them,’ declares the Lord of hosts, ‘and will cut off from Babylon name and remnant, descendants and posterity,’ declares the Lord.”

Babylon being destroyed is not Armageddon — it takes place at the start of the tribulation, not the end. Therefore, how could it be anywhere in Europe? The Antichrist will make Europe and the Middle East the center of his kingdom. But this verse says the name, remnant, descendants, and posterity will all be cut off. Look at the book of Revelation and all the prophecies of the Day of the Lord: the one thing not mentioned is the US — they have been cut off.

Revelation 17:5 — Mother of Abominations​

“And on her forehead was written a name of mystery: ‘Babylon the great, mother of prostitutes and of earth’s abominations.’”

If I look at this verse alone, without the previous verses, I would think of either the Vatican or England. You can say the US is the daughter of England, and that the Catholic church is the mother of all the Protestant denominations. But no verse is of its own interpretation — this verse must align with all the other verses examined so far, and those all point to the United States being Babylon the Great. Yes, some can also refer to Israel, and some to the Vatican. But so far only the US can be seen in every verse.

Therefore I would say “mother of prostitutes” refers to multinational corporations like Coca-Cola and McDonald’s, and to the stock exchange. “Earth’s abominations” would refer to things the US has made: bioweapons, nuclear bombs, AI and robots and the Beast system, the mark of the beast, Hollywood movies, and the music industry’s records.
 

Jeremiah 20:5 — Prized Possessions Carried Away​

“Moreover, I will give all the wealth of the city, all its gains, all its prized belongings, and all the treasures of the kings of Judah into the hand of their enemies, who shall plunder them and seize them and carry them to Babylon.”

What are the prized possessions of the Jews? Surely the Bible, the stories. They have all been taken by Hollywood. Think of “The Ten Commandments” and “It’s a Wonderful Life” — close to the story. Then corruption like “The Lord of the Rings” and “Harry Potter,” with Messiah-like and Satan-like figures, “the return of the king,” “the boy who lived.” Hollywood moves from a clearly biblical story, to one mixed with superstition, to fantasy with hobbits and goblins and dragons and an all-seeing eye and rings of power, to mixing in witchcraft so the boy who lived is also the one who is to come — made into a witch. Iran did not do this. Israel did not do this. Iraq did not do this. This was Hollywood, plundering the Bible and all its stories: “The Lion King,” the C.S. Lewis adaptations, and a long list of others.

Ten Pieces of Information, Before Revelation 18​

So far we have ten pieces of information describing the Great Babylon at the end of the age:

  • Is the place where the believers moved to. That could be the US or Israel.
  • They were the country that God considered His people that practiced abortion (could be US or Israel)
  • They also celebrated the star of Rephan (can only refer to the US, as that is the star on top of a Christmas tree)
  • It is also the country where evangelists to the whole world sent out the message (can’t refer to Israel; could refer to the US or the UK)
  • It is the nation that made all the nations of the earth drink the wine of the passion of her sexual immorality (can only refer to the US)
  • They are the glory of kingdoms (can only refer to the US)
  • It is where the most elite military is (can refer to the US and Israel)
  • They have become like Sodom and Gomorrah (can refer to both the US and Israel)
  • Revelation 16 makes clear Jerusalem is not the Great Babylon, and neither are the cities of the nations. Given the context of when Revelation was written, this could only refer to the US.
  • We are told the Great Babylon will be thoroughly and utterly cut off, and sure enough, in the book of Revelation we see absolutely nothing concerning the US. The fact that the last seven years center on the Middle East and Israel is proof positive that they are not the Great Babylon judged at the start of the tribulation.
Every jot and tittle will be fulfilled. If an interpretation does not fit with every jot and tittle, it must be adjusted so that it does.
 
The one reason people taught that it was Rome and the Vatican:

Revelation 17:9–10 — The Seven Mountains​

“Here is the mind that has wisdom: the seven heads are seven mountains on which the woman is seated; they are also seven kings, five of whom have fallen, one is, the other has not yet come, and when he comes he must remain only a little while.” (Rev. 17:9–10)

This is the verse most often used to argue for Rome: at the time John wrote, the city of Rome was clearly being held up as the foreshadowing supreme power, sitting on its seven literal hills, with the Mediterranean as its “many waters” (17:1). That was a reasonable first-century reading, and it gave rise to the historic Rome/papal identification.

But the text itself defines “many waters” for us: “The waters that you saw, where the prostitute is seated, are peoples and multitudes and nations and languages” (Rev. 17:15). The image is not literal hydrology — it is dominion over a multitude of nations. Today we have a global power whose “many waters” are the world’s oceans, and whose seats of power are not seven hills within one city but a network of military strongholds spanning the continents. The US operates roughly 750–800 military bases in more than 80 countries — more overseas bases than every other major power combined several times over. Britain, France, Russia, and China together maintain fewer than 50 overseas installations, by comparison.

This is a structurally faithful update of the same image, not merely another superpower descriptor: Rome’s seven hills were the literal high ground from which the city projected power over the peoples around the Mediterranean. A modern power whose strength is projected from fortified positions across the continents, ruling over “peoples and multitudes and nations and languages” far beyond any single sea, fulfills the same shape of the prophecy at a global scale. Only the US fulfills this criterion sitting, in effect, on the “seven mountains” of the seven continents — reaching Europe, Asia, Africa, North America, South America, and Oceania through its base network, with a presence in Antarctica as well under the Antarctic Treaty system.
 

Summary Score

Candidate
Fully Met
Partial
Tier-1 (text-structural)
Iraq
0 / 32
0
0 / 4
Jerusalem
3 / 32
0
0 / 4
Vatican
0 / 32
9
0 / 4
England
0 / 32
9
0 / 4
United States
31 / 32
1 (partial on #29)
4 / 4

The only point on which there is any debate about the US is "all nations were deceived by her sorcery". My personal opinion is that this is a direct reference to the US and the Pandemic, but as you know that opinion is heavily censored and even debated even now.
 
Here are my criteria:

Place of “deportation” (metoikesia) — a great forced removal of people into it during the church age
“Took up the tent of Moloch” — infanticide/abortion practiced by God’s own covenant people
“Took up the star of your god Rephan” — pagan star/Christmas symbolism embraced as Christian
Captors require “songs of mirth” / songs of Zion from exiles dwelling there
Base from which the gospel message is sent out to “the dispersion” / the whole world
“The glory of kingdoms” — splendor and pomp of a dominant power
Likened to Sodom and Gomorrah
Renowned, elite, feared military reputation (“Chaldean” warriors)
Makes all nations “drink the wine” of the passion of her sexual immorality (exported immorality/media)
Distinct from Jerusalem (“the great city” split in three) and from “the cities of the nations” that fall at the same time
Name, remnant, descendants, and posterity utterly cut off — absent from end-times prophecy
“Mother of prostitutes and of earth’s abominations”
Prized possessions, treasures, and stories of God’s people plundered and carried off to her
Becomes “a dwelling place for demons, a haunt for every unclean spirit”
Merchants of the earth have grown rich from the power of her luxurious living
Possesses the highest standard of living / luxury consumption on earth
God’s own people (“my people”) are found dwelling within her, called to “come out”
Has “paid back” / wronged other nations through covert or interventionist power
Self-glorifying arrogance — “I sit a queen… I shall see no sorrow”
Complicit “kings of the earth” weep and wail over her sudden judgment
Merchants weep because no one buys their cargo — she is the dominant consumer of the world’s goods
Cargo explicitly includes “slaves, that is, human souls”
Shipmasters and seafarers “stood far off” — surrounded by ocean, reached from every direction
Clothed in fine linen, purple, and scarlet; adorned with gold, jewels, and pearls
Called “the great city” by the merchants — a distinct economic-capital title (e.g., Washington/New York)
Functions as the world’s reserve currency / financial capital
Cast down like a millstone — paired with the warning against those who harm children
Currently possesses music, craftsmen, lamplight, and wedding joy — all said to be silenced at her fall
“All nations were deceived by her sorcery” (Gk. pharmakeia)
Blood of all the prophets and saints slain on earth is “found in her” — cumulative guilt beyond her own era
A people will be specifically “rescued” and “redeemed” out of her at the end of the age
“Seven mountains” / seven seats of power on which she sits, projecting rule over “many waters” (17:1, 15)
 
Babylon will be the one-world religion which the pope of the end time will rule. So it will encompass all the religions of the world except those who belong to Lord Jesus.

That's why we're warned:

Revelation 18:4 Then I heard another voice from heaven say: “‘Come out of her, my people,’ so that you will not share in her sins, so that you will not receive any of her plagues;


🕊

Jerusalem had fallen by the time Revelation was written, and Rome is no longer an empire,
so the most likely current candidate is Islam-Marxism, which is subverting Europe and NYC.