Who is God... Really?!
- Thread starter PneumaPsucheSoma
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Scotth1960
Guest
That's where you err again. Not three "separate" anything. The persons of the Trinity are distinct, but not separate. They are in each other. They co-inhere, in perichoresis. You fail to understand the concept of the perichoresis of God the Trinity. You criticize what you do not understand. You want to have it both ways with "I am not sola Scriptura" but "I am semi Sola Scriptura", whatever that is. A distinction without a difference, I gather.
The idea that the Father is not a person and the Holy Spirit is not a person. While the Son is a person. Your idea is extra-biblical. It isn't demanded by anything in Scripture.
It still comes down to Jesus as a "He", and the Father, an "it", the Spirit, an "it". Two impersonal parts, one personal part. What imbalance that is! A mess!
In Erie PA Scott R. Harrington
Since you have inundated me with PMs to answer, and you refuse to address scripture and exegesis while dismissing everything beyond your indoctrinated polytheistic mess, I'm permanently blocking you from any further communication.
Go enjoy your tradition and error that has cost many souls for eternity.
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Scotth1960
Guest
[quote=PneumaPsucheSoma;412185]Oh... and God isn't one "person" any more than He's three "persons".[/quote]
If you say God "isn't one person." And then you say "Jesus is a person." You must be saying that Jesus is not God. You are not logical or consistent with your very own self. Your beliefs contradict each other, and this is confusion. And "God is not the author of confusion, but of peace, and of love, and of a sound mind." Just thought you should be reminded of that. God forgive me. Sometimes I get confused too. But I'm not confused about Who God is. Thus, "Glory to the Father and to the Son and to the Holy Spirit, now and ever and unto the ages of ages; Amen." God have mercy on us all. In Erie PA Scott R. Harrington
If you say God "isn't one person." And then you say "Jesus is a person." You must be saying that Jesus is not God. You are not logical or consistent with your very own self. Your beliefs contradict each other, and this is confusion. And "God is not the author of confusion, but of peace, and of love, and of a sound mind." Just thought you should be reminded of that. God forgive me. Sometimes I get confused too. But I'm not confused about Who God is. Thus, "Glory to the Father and to the Son and to the Holy Spirit, now and ever and unto the ages of ages; Amen." God have mercy on us all. In Erie PA Scott R. Harrington
Finally, I'm really surprised it took you this long. I'm a firm, old school believer that children should be seen not heard. If they would just shut up occasionally they could learn a little more. That's why we have 2 ears & only one mouth!!!
God is:
Father God Almighty / Holy Spirit
The Begotten Son
How does it all work?
God Almighty had a Plan in the beginning.
Even before He began to create he had a Plan!
The Cornerstone of his plan was the salvation of mankind.
Mankind is the creation of God.
A perfect man was/is the only acceptable sacrifice!
The Beginning of God's Plan;
God The Father creates everything.
Putting His Plan in motion or into existence.
4000 years of man's rule / failures
God takes His own DNA & implants Mary.
The Savior is born / Emmanuel / God with us.
The Son is Baptized with the Holy Spirit.
The Son begins the Fathers work/ in obedience.
The Son is 100% man/ but of the Seed of The Father
Indwelt with the Holy Spirit of His Father.
After living a sinless life The Son is crucified.
The Plan of God for man's Salvation is Finished.
The Son said so on the cross !!!!
The Father resurrects His Son & He is lifted up to The Father.
The son receives His Crown for completion of God's Plan.
The Father gives His Son equality in Power.
He has earned the right to be part of God's family.
He / The Son sends his Holy Spirit back to us who receive him.
We are being tested as the First Son was tested.
If we pass the test / we receive a crown & glorified body.
At this point / not when we accept him / We are born again
Children of God / Joint Heirs w/ Jesus !!!
Praise & worship the Father for a love so strong he sacrificed his only Son for our sins.
Praise, Honor, & Glory to the Son for His obedience to the Father
There is no Trinity there is no oneness
There is God The Father & His Son Lord Jesus Christ, sharing the power of the Father/ His Holy Spirit
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Scotth1960
Guest
I don't understand what you are saying. It seems like a lot of Greek to me. The important thing to know is the Spirit proceeds from the Father "alone". The rest that you are bringing up adds nothing that is necessary to know. Even if it is true, it is not one of the key dogmas of the Christian Faith. It's all speculation, and not something that is required in a salvific sense. We should get back to soteriology, and the things we must believe to be saved. It is too early to be searching for higher truths and the stuff the Word calls meat, when we need sufficient pure milk from the Word of God. Let's get to the basics of how a Christian finds grace and forgiveness with God. Higher truths can come later. I'm just an ordinary sinner. I need the pure milk of the word. And pure milk is Trinity. Trinity is also the doctrine of solid meat, but that is for people who have more grace and who experience fellowship with the Trinity through the holy Eucharist. That hasn't happened to me yet. In Erie PA Scott R. Harrington
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AnandaHya
Guest
PPS stop responding to the babes and just post the meat of it, eventually when they get tired of milk and grow some teeth they will get around to reading it. 
YouTube - East to West by Casting Crowns
YouTube - East to West by Casting Crowns
PPS stop responding to the babes and just post the meat of it, eventually when they get tired of milk and grow some teeth they will get around to reading it.
YouTube - East to West by Casting Crowns
I will. I've just been time-limited and mobile. It's tedious to post Greek exegesis via iPhone while driving. :-O
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Scotth1960
Guest
Dearl Eternallygrateful, That is exactly correct. What Pneumapsuchesoma's creed amounts to is Sabellianism. He may deny it, but logically His denial of three persons in the Trinity amounts to the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit all being one person. For He admits Christ is a person. So the Father and the Holy Spirit are the one person, Jesus Christ. It's illogical and un-biblical.
In Erie PA Scott R. Harrington
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Scotth1960
Guest
Your slander shows you aren't stating the truth. Your emotion and sarcasm shows you aren't speaking the truth. Your confusion of the Holy Trinity with polytheism and "gorilla glue people" and "Siamese triplets" and so on show you are far from wanting to hear the truth. All you can do is cast ad hominem, personal attacks on people. I have not attacked you personally for what you believe. I didn't slander you or your character. You have been poisoned by years of Calvinism, apparently. Once a person adds "traditions of men" to the Holy Trinity, it is little wonder he loses faith in the Holy Trinity, too. This is sad indeed. The EOC has the pure holy doctrine of the pristine Trinity, free of traditions of men. So enjoy your tradition of men, of Sabellianism, or Sabellius. You have chosen a false doctrine. So you must live with Jesus Christ being the Father and the Holy Spirit, one person, and that is a mess and not biblical. Wrap yourself up in biblical language, it won't make your Oneness doctrine biblical.
God bless you. I am not afraid of anyone but God, and God is the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit: Trinity. Take care. In Erie PA Scott R. Harrington
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AnandaHya
Guest
interesting reading on the founder of trinity doctrine, he was called a heretic too, but then they changed their mind. hmmmm.....
Quintus Septimius Florens Tertullianus, anglicised as Tertullian (c. 160 – c. 220 AD),[1] was a prolific early Christian author from Carthage in the Roman province of Africa.[2] He is the first Christian author to produce an extensive corpus of Latin Christian literature. He also was a notable early Christian apologist and a polemicist against heresy. Tertullian has been called "the father of Latin Christianity"[3] and "the founder of Western theology."[4] Though conservative, he did originate and advance new theology to the early Church. He is perhaps most famous for being the oldest extant Latin writer to use the term Trinity (Latin trinitas),[5] and giving the oldest extant formal exposition of a Trinitarian theology.[6] Other Latin formulations that first appear in his work are "three Persons, one Substance" as the Latin "tres Personae, una Substantia" (itself from the Koine Greek "treis Hypostases, Homoousios").[4] He wrote his trinitarian formula after becoming a Montanist; his ideas were at first rejected as heresy by the church at large, but later accepted as Christian orthodoxy.[4]
don't you just love lawyers, even 200th century ones?
Quintus Septimius Florens Tertullianus, anglicised as Tertullian (c. 160 – c. 220 AD),[1] was a prolific early Christian author from Carthage in the Roman province of Africa.[2] He is the first Christian author to produce an extensive corpus of Latin Christian literature. He also was a notable early Christian apologist and a polemicist against heresy. Tertullian has been called "the father of Latin Christianity"[3] and "the founder of Western theology."[4] Though conservative, he did originate and advance new theology to the early Church. He is perhaps most famous for being the oldest extant Latin writer to use the term Trinity (Latin trinitas),[5] and giving the oldest extant formal exposition of a Trinitarian theology.[6] Other Latin formulations that first appear in his work are "three Persons, one Substance" as the Latin "tres Personae, una Substantia" (itself from the Koine Greek "treis Hypostases, Homoousios").[4] He wrote his trinitarian formula after becoming a Montanist; his ideas were at first rejected as heresy by the church at large, but later accepted as Christian orthodoxy.[4]
don't you just love lawyers, even 200th century ones?
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AnandaHya
Guest
trace it back to Montanism:
Scholars are divided as to when Montanus first began his prophetic activity, having chosen dates varying from c. AD 135 to as late as AD 177.[1] Montanus traveled among the rural settlements of Asia Minor, and preached and testified what he regarded as the Word of God; however, his teachings came to be regarded as heresy by the orthodox Church for a number of reasons. He claimed to have received a series of direct revelations from the Holy Spirit. In some of his prophecies Montanus apparently spoke in the first person as God, somewhat like the oracular prophecies of the Greco-Roman world.
Many understood this to be Montanus claiming himself to be God or the Holy Spirit. However, scholars agree that these words of Montanus exemplify the general practice of religious prophets to speak as the passive mouthpieces of the divine, and to claim divine inspiration (similar to modern prophets stating "Thus saith the Lord"). That practice occurred in Christian as well as in pagan circles with some degree of frequency (Pelikan 101, Tabernee 93).
Montanus had two female colleagues, Prisca (sometimes called Priscilla), and Maximilla, who likewise claimed the inspiration of the Holy Spirit. As they went, "the Three" spoke in ecstatic visions and urged their followers to fast and pray, so that they might share these revelations. The preachings of Montanus spread from his native Phrygia (where he proclaimed the village of Pepuza as the site of the New Jerusalem) across the Christian world, to Africa and Gaul.
Scholars are divided as to when Montanus first began his prophetic activity, having chosen dates varying from c. AD 135 to as late as AD 177.[1] Montanus traveled among the rural settlements of Asia Minor, and preached and testified what he regarded as the Word of God; however, his teachings came to be regarded as heresy by the orthodox Church for a number of reasons. He claimed to have received a series of direct revelations from the Holy Spirit. In some of his prophecies Montanus apparently spoke in the first person as God, somewhat like the oracular prophecies of the Greco-Roman world.
Many understood this to be Montanus claiming himself to be God or the Holy Spirit. However, scholars agree that these words of Montanus exemplify the general practice of religious prophets to speak as the passive mouthpieces of the divine, and to claim divine inspiration (similar to modern prophets stating "Thus saith the Lord"). That practice occurred in Christian as well as in pagan circles with some degree of frequency (Pelikan 101, Tabernee 93).
Montanus had two female colleagues, Prisca (sometimes called Priscilla), and Maximilla, who likewise claimed the inspiration of the Holy Spirit. As they went, "the Three" spoke in ecstatic visions and urged their followers to fast and pray, so that they might share these revelations. The preachings of Montanus spread from his native Phrygia (where he proclaimed the village of Pepuza as the site of the New Jerusalem) across the Christian world, to Africa and Gaul.
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AnandaHya
Guest
"claimed the inspiration of the Holy Spirit. As they went, "the Three" spoke in ecstatic visions and urged their followers to fast and pray, so that they might share these revelations."
wait wait wait that's how the Hindus put demons in people, hmmm interesting....
The best-known defender of the New Prophecy was undoubtedly Tertullian, who believed that the claims of Montanus were genuine and began to fall out of step with what he began to call "the church of a lot of bishops" (On Modesty). A common misconception is that Tertullian decisively left the orthodox Church and joined a separate Montanist sect; in fact the divisions in his own Carthaginian Church seem to have been subtler, and he moved in later life into alignment with the New Prophecy, whose discipline and ascetic standards he admired. Even in this "Montanist" period he was influential in establishing the principles of orthodox Trinitarian doctrine. (Against Praxeas).
Eusebius of Caesarea quotes Apollinarius of Hierapolis, who spoke of the deaths of Montanus and Maximilla: "But by another kind of death Montanus and Maximilla are said to have died. For the report is that, incited by the spirit of frenzy, they both hung themselves; not at the same time, but at the time which common report gives for the death of each. And thus they died, and ended their lives like the traitor Judas."[6]
wait wait wait that's how the Hindus put demons in people, hmmm interesting....
The best-known defender of the New Prophecy was undoubtedly Tertullian, who believed that the claims of Montanus were genuine and began to fall out of step with what he began to call "the church of a lot of bishops" (On Modesty). A common misconception is that Tertullian decisively left the orthodox Church and joined a separate Montanist sect; in fact the divisions in his own Carthaginian Church seem to have been subtler, and he moved in later life into alignment with the New Prophecy, whose discipline and ascetic standards he admired. Even in this "Montanist" period he was influential in establishing the principles of orthodox Trinitarian doctrine. (Against Praxeas).
Eusebius of Caesarea quotes Apollinarius of Hierapolis, who spoke of the deaths of Montanus and Maximilla: "But by another kind of death Montanus and Maximilla are said to have died. For the report is that, incited by the spirit of frenzy, they both hung themselves; not at the same time, but at the time which common report gives for the death of each. And thus they died, and ended their lives like the traitor Judas."[6]
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AnandaHya
Guest
lovely and that was where the seeds are planted PPS, just in case you didn't bother researching it yourself. I never did before you brought the issue to my attention. don't forget these Bible verses ok:
John 7:7
The world cannot hate you, but it hates Me because I testify of it that its works are evil.
John 15:17-19 (New King James Version)
17 These things I command you, that you love one another.
The World’s Hatred
18 “If the world hates you, you know that it hated Me before it hated you. 19 If you were of the world, the world would love its own. Yet because you are not of the world, but I chose you out of the
world, therefore the world hates you.
Matthew 13:13-15 (New King James Version)
13 Therefore I speak to them in parables, because seeing they do not see, and hearing they do not hear, nor do they understand. 14 And in them the prophecy of Isaiah is fulfilled, which says:
‘ Hearing you will hear and shall not understand,
And seeing you will see and not perceive;
15 For the hearts of this people have grown dull.
Their ears are hard of hearing,
And their eyes they have closed,
Lest they should see with their eyes and hear with their ears,
Lest they should understand with their hearts and turn,
So that I should[a]heal them.’
Jeremiah 6:19
Hear, O earth! Behold, I will certainly bring calamity on this people— The fruit of their thoughts, Because they have not heeded My words Nor My law, but rejected it.
we are but voices in the wilderness my brother, crying out and making straight the paths for the return of our King.
what we do is for the GLORY of GOD, what we speak is for HIS Love, not ours. remember that ok?
John 7:7
The world cannot hate you, but it hates Me because I testify of it that its works are evil.
John 15:17-19 (New King James Version)
17 These things I command you, that you love one another.
The World’s Hatred
18 “If the world hates you, you know that it hated Me before it hated you. 19 If you were of the world, the world would love its own. Yet because you are not of the world, but I chose you out of the
world, therefore the world hates you.
Matthew 13:13-15 (New King James Version)
13 Therefore I speak to them in parables, because seeing they do not see, and hearing they do not hear, nor do they understand. 14 And in them the prophecy of Isaiah is fulfilled, which says:
‘ Hearing you will hear and shall not understand,
And seeing you will see and not perceive;
15 For the hearts of this people have grown dull.
Their ears are hard of hearing,
And their eyes they have closed,
Lest they should see with their eyes and hear with their ears,
Lest they should understand with their hearts and turn,
So that I should[a]heal them.’
Jeremiah 6:19
Hear, O earth! Behold, I will certainly bring calamity on this people— The fruit of their thoughts, Because they have not heeded My words Nor My law, but rejected it.
we are but voices in the wilderness my brother, crying out and making straight the paths for the return of our King.
what we do is for the GLORY of GOD, what we speak is for HIS Love, not ours. remember that ok?
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Fire7
Guest
When I was a kid, and I heard the term "God", the instant image that came to my mind was a huge kind of white/somewhat transparent or elusive being in the sky--with kind of an Elvis hairdo--in the sky, kind of blending in with the clouds. For whatever reason, this was my view of Him. As I got older, I pictured him as a huge giant with white beard, who resembled the traditional depictions of Jesus--just a more ancient looking version.
I think my view was mostly influenced by tradition.
Your view of G-d will depend on what you believe about religion, philosophy, and the bible--how accurate and true you believe the bible to be.
The G-d of the bible is a tri-part being--one God in three persons (individuals, if you will) with each part of Him complimenting the other. Each part of Him has a different function, and therefore, will have a different image. The Father is the biggest part of the trinity. The bible says that the Heaven of Heavens cannot contain Him. Therefore, the Father (more the MIND of God than anything) has no single form, for all things are encompassed by Him--He is more of a law or code than a physical matter. Jesus Christ is the human representation of the Godhead. He said in the bible, "If you've seen me, you have seen the father." The H-ly Spirit, being the most sacred (so much that every sin can be forgiven but the sin of speaking against Him) representation of the Godhead, is more the POWER--life force of G-d. The bible speaks of G-d as an "all consuming fire!" I imagine G-d's Spirit being similar to the burning fireball called the sun, in space--just MUCH BIGGER and brighter! The bible also speaks of Him, synonymously, as WIND and WATER. I picture the H-ly Spirit as a being who changes form and uses the elements to represent G-d's flowing, intricate nature.
This is my current view of G-d.
I think my view was mostly influenced by tradition.
Your view of G-d will depend on what you believe about religion, philosophy, and the bible--how accurate and true you believe the bible to be.
The G-d of the bible is a tri-part being--one God in three persons (individuals, if you will) with each part of Him complimenting the other. Each part of Him has a different function, and therefore, will have a different image. The Father is the biggest part of the trinity. The bible says that the Heaven of Heavens cannot contain Him. Therefore, the Father (more the MIND of God than anything) has no single form, for all things are encompassed by Him--He is more of a law or code than a physical matter. Jesus Christ is the human representation of the Godhead. He said in the bible, "If you've seen me, you have seen the father." The H-ly Spirit, being the most sacred (so much that every sin can be forgiven but the sin of speaking against Him) representation of the Godhead, is more the POWER--life force of G-d. The bible speaks of G-d as an "all consuming fire!" I imagine G-d's Spirit being similar to the burning fireball called the sun, in space--just MUCH BIGGER and brighter! The bible also speaks of Him, synonymously, as WIND and WATER. I picture the H-ly Spirit as a being who changes form and uses the elements to represent G-d's flowing, intricate nature.
This is my current view of G-d.
Aside from your use of the word "persons," your description is surprisingly close to what PPS has been describing.
Yes, but thanks. I've spent 13 years in exhaustive research of all areas of Godhead doctrine, and have every Ante-Nicene writing and volumes more. I posted the same info and more for Scott on another thread, including reference codes in ANF writings.
Those who hold to tradition will do so regardless. They will contend Trinity is Apostolic doctrine.
True, but "persons" is the single primary issue of error with Trinity.
A word (person-s) isn't quick, powerful, and sharp enough to pierce and divide*asunder any further than itself (person-s). THE word is quick, powerful, and sharper than any two-edged sword, piercing to the dividing*asunder of soul and spirit, joints and marrow (body-soul; soul-life is in the blood, and blood comes from marrow). Soul-spirit on one edge; soul-body on the other edge.
2Thess. 2:8 refers to the "spirit of his mouth". Revelation has a bit to say about a two-edged sword proceeding out of His mouth in 1:16, 2:12, 2:16, 19:15, 19:21.
I'm just glad you seem to understand what I'm saying.
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Scotth1960
Guest
If God isn't one person, but you say that Jesus is a person, doesn't that mean your belief is that Jesus is not God? Your doctrines contradict each other. Take care. In Erie PA Scott