Who Justifieth the Ungodly
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You're saying that those who reject God are "absolutely acquitted/absolved : to free from guilt or claim or their consequences". Your erroneous dogma has you believing the lies of the devil.
Those who remain "ungodly sinners" the whole of their lifetime will find themselves facing the lake of fire.
Read the verse within the context within which the Author of Scripture has placed it:
Romans 4:
24 But for us also, to whom it [righteousness] shall be imputed, if we believe on him that raised up Jesus our Lord from the dead;
25 Who was delivered for our offences, and was raised again for our justification.
5:1 Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ
Romans 4:25 is sandwiched between two verses which make clear God's perspective on faith/believing. God makes clear the error of your dogma.
READ YOUR BIBLE!!!
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Those who remain "ungodly sinners" the whole of their lifetime will find themselves facing the lake of fire.
Read the verse within the context within which the Author of Scripture has placed it:
Romans 4:
24 But for us also, to whom it [righteousness] shall be imputed, if we believe on him that raised up Jesus our Lord from the dead;
25 Who was delivered for our offences, and was raised again for our justification.
5:1 Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ
Romans 4:25 is sandwiched between two verses which make clear God's perspective on faith/believing. God makes clear the error of your dogma.
READ YOUR BIBLE!!!
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Nope.
Romans 4:24 But for us also, to whom it shall be imputed, if we believe on him that raised up Jesus our Lord from the dead;
The verse states righteousness "shall be imputed" ... not "was in the long distant past imputed" as you erroneously imply.
So again, you're going to have to find another verse to support your claim that "righteousness is imputed before one believes".
It is obvious you say whatever you want. I will continue shine the light of Scripture on your faulty interpretations. You'll either believe Scripture or you won't.
Romans 4:3 For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness.
Your rendering of Scripture is wholly without merit in light of God's wonderful Word telling us that Abraham believed God and it was counted to him for righteousness.
You continue to believe faith = works when God specifically tells us faith ≠ works. I choose to believe God.
Read the verse again, brightfame52:
Romans 4:5 But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.
The verse states the person believes on Him who justifies the ungodly. The person acknowledges that he/she is ungodly ... and believes God justifies him/her.
You do not believe that. You believe you are "elect" ... you believe you specifically are not part of the whole of ungodly descendants of Adam.
Read the verse again, brightfame52:
Romans 4:5 But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.
The verse says his faith is counted for righteousness.
The verse does not state "his ungodliness is counted for righteousness".
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Romans 4:24 But for us also, to whom it shall be imputed, if we believe on him that raised up Jesus our Lord from the dead;
The verse states righteousness "shall be imputed" ... not "was in the long distant past imputed" as you erroneously imply.
So again, you're going to have to find another verse to support your claim that "righteousness is imputed before one believes".
It is obvious you say whatever you want. I will continue shine the light of Scripture on your faulty interpretations. You'll either believe Scripture or you won't.
Romans 4:3 For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness.
Your rendering of Scripture is wholly without merit in light of God's wonderful Word telling us that Abraham believed God and it was counted to him for righteousness.
You continue to believe faith = works when God specifically tells us faith ≠ works. I choose to believe God.
Read the verse again, brightfame52:
Romans 4:5 But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.
The verse states the person believes on Him who justifies the ungodly. The person acknowledges that he/she is ungodly ... and believes God justifies him/her.
You do not believe that. You believe you are "elect" ... you believe you specifically are not part of the whole of ungodly descendants of Adam.
Read the verse again, brightfame52:
Romans 4:5 But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.
The verse says his faith is counted for righteousness.
The verse does not state "his ungodliness is counted for righteousness".
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Just because 1 Cor 1:24 mentions the wisdom of God, that does not automatically indicate the Author is speaking of hidden wisdom, which God ordained before the world unto our glory (1 Cor 2:7).
1 Cor 1:24 speaks of Christ crucified.
1 Cor 1:24 tells us Christ is the power of God, and the wisdom of God.
Paul then tells us he did not come to them with excellency of speech or of wisdom (1 Cor 2:1). He spoke to them of Jesus Christ and Him crucified (1 Cor 2:2) so that their faith would not stand in the wisdom of men, but in the power of God (1 Cor 2:5).
Paul taught Christ crucified to those who were babes in Christ. He fed them with milk and not with meat (1 Cor 3:1-2).
However in 1 Cor 2:6-16, Paul tells us he also taught those who were perfect (vs 6) ... those who were mature. Paul was able to speak of things which comprised the meat of the Word ... spiritual matters which were not suited for those who were still feeding on the milk of the word (i.e. the gospel – Christ crucified).
That you consider the gospel to be more than the milk of the word indicates that you are still in need of feeding on the milk of the word. Strong meat is not suited for you as you still need to grow up and mature so that you will be able to understand the difference between Christ the power of God, and the wisdom of God (1 Cor 1:23-24) and the wisdom of God in a mystery, even the hidden wisdom, which God ordained before the world unto our glory (1 Cor 2:7).
Nope. While the Lord Jesus Christ is the wisdom of God (1 Cor 1:24), He is certainly not hidden as it is the Lord Jesus Christ Who is revealed in Scripture from Genesis to Revelation.
Nice try, but no cigar.
Please note that 2 Cor 4:3-4 does not state that God, the Creator of the heavens and the earth, has blinded the minds of those who do not believe. The verse clearly states those who do not believe are deceived by satan.
And when we continue to read a couple more verses, we see that God has not hidden the Messiah:
2 Corinthians For God, who commanded the light to shine out of darkness, hath shined in our hearts, to give the light of the knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Jesus Christ.
It is written
Ephesians 3:
1 For this cause I Paul, the prisoner of Jesus Christ for you Gentiles,
2 If ye have heard of the dispensation of the grace of God which is given me to you-ward:
3 How that by revelation he made known unto me the mystery; (as I wrote afore in few words,
4 Whereby, when ye read, ye may understand my knowledge in the mystery of Christ)
5 Which in other ages was not made known unto the sons of men, as it is now revealed unto his holy apostles and prophets by the Spirit;
6 That the Gentiles should be fellowheirs, and of the same body, and partakers of his promise in Christ by the gospel:
When God tells us that what is written in Eph 3:5 was not made known unto the sons of men, as it is now revealed, I believe Him.
You choose not to believe and you manipulate Scripture in order to support your dogma. You argue with God about what is the mystery. I will not partake with you in your foolishness.
In your desperate attempts to align Scripture with your dogma, you behave as those we are warned against in 2 Cor 4:2 ... those who are walking in craftiness and who are handling the word of God deceitfully.
You are to align your dogma to Scripture and where your dogma does not align, get rid of your error.
.
1 Cor 1:24 speaks of Christ crucified.
1 Cor 1:24 tells us Christ is the power of God, and the wisdom of God.
Paul then tells us he did not come to them with excellency of speech or of wisdom (1 Cor 2:1). He spoke to them of Jesus Christ and Him crucified (1 Cor 2:2) so that their faith would not stand in the wisdom of men, but in the power of God (1 Cor 2:5).
Paul taught Christ crucified to those who were babes in Christ. He fed them with milk and not with meat (1 Cor 3:1-2).
However in 1 Cor 2:6-16, Paul tells us he also taught those who were perfect (vs 6) ... those who were mature. Paul was able to speak of things which comprised the meat of the Word ... spiritual matters which were not suited for those who were still feeding on the milk of the word (i.e. the gospel – Christ crucified).
That you consider the gospel to be more than the milk of the word indicates that you are still in need of feeding on the milk of the word. Strong meat is not suited for you as you still need to grow up and mature so that you will be able to understand the difference between Christ the power of God, and the wisdom of God (1 Cor 1:23-24) and the wisdom of God in a mystery, even the hidden wisdom, which God ordained before the world unto our glory (1 Cor 2:7).
Nope. While the Lord Jesus Christ is the wisdom of God (1 Cor 1:24), He is certainly not hidden as it is the Lord Jesus Christ Who is revealed in Scripture from Genesis to Revelation.
Nice try, but no cigar.
Please note that 2 Cor 4:3-4 does not state that God, the Creator of the heavens and the earth, has blinded the minds of those who do not believe. The verse clearly states those who do not believe are deceived by satan.
And when we continue to read a couple more verses, we see that God has not hidden the Messiah:
2 Corinthians For God, who commanded the light to shine out of darkness, hath shined in our hearts, to give the light of the knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Jesus Christ.
It is written
Ephesians 3:
1 For this cause I Paul, the prisoner of Jesus Christ for you Gentiles,
2 If ye have heard of the dispensation of the grace of God which is given me to you-ward:
3 How that by revelation he made known unto me the mystery; (as I wrote afore in few words,
4 Whereby, when ye read, ye may understand my knowledge in the mystery of Christ)
5 Which in other ages was not made known unto the sons of men, as it is now revealed unto his holy apostles and prophets by the Spirit;
6 That the Gentiles should be fellowheirs, and of the same body, and partakers of his promise in Christ by the gospel:
When God tells us that what is written in Eph 3:5 was not made known unto the sons of men, as it is now revealed, I believe Him.
You choose not to believe and you manipulate Scripture in order to support your dogma. You argue with God about what is the mystery. I will not partake with you in your foolishness.
In your desperate attempts to align Scripture with your dogma, you behave as those we are warned against in 2 Cor 4:2 ... those who are walking in craftiness and who are handling the word of God deceitfully.
You are to align your dogma to Scripture and where your dogma does not align, get rid of your error.
.
intentionally obtuse.And I have gone over this verse with you before, brightfame52. Please understand:
Galatians 3:24 Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.
The purpose of the law is to lead mankind to Messiah. The keeping of the law was never intended as a means of salvation ... salvation is wholly by grace through faith. That is clearly written in Scripture from Genesis to Revelation.
In Matthew 23:23, Jesus pointed out that the scribes and pharisees were trying to keep the law in an attempt to gain salvation and, in so doing, they missed the whole point of the law because the law pointed to their need for Him.
Galatians 2:16 Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.
There is only one faith. You continue to rattle on and on about "human faith" as if "human faith" is truth (it isn't). Faith is faith and Scripture tells us there is only one faith.
Try believing Scripture over your erroneous dogma and watch God work in your heart to increase what little faith you do have so that your faith grows strong in Him and in His power to bring you from faith to faith.
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Scripture tells us faith is not works:
Romans 4:
2 For if Abraham were justified by works, he hath whereof to glory; but not before God.
3 For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it [Abraham's faith] was counted unto him for righteousness.
4 Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt.
5 But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.
I didn't write the book. I just believe what the Author of Scripture wrote.
That you have a problem with what is written is between you and God ... the Author of Scripture.
You want to make faith "required under the Law"? Have at it. At that point, you change Rom 4:4 and you do not receive the reward through grace ... you receive of debt. Have fun with that!
Your complete and utter misinterpretation of Scripture does not affect me in the least.
However, you are in deep trouble since you believe "human faith" is "faith must be in accordance with the law":
Romans 4:14 For if they which are of the law be heirs, faith is made void, and the promise made of none effect
Do not attempt to align Scripture with your erroneous dogma. You are to align your dogma to Scripture and where your dogma conflicts with Scripture, rid yourself of your dogma.
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Romans 4:
2 For if Abraham were justified by works, he hath whereof to glory; but not before God.
3 For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it [Abraham's faith] was counted unto him for righteousness.
4 Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt.
5 But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.
I didn't write the book. I just believe what the Author of Scripture wrote.
That you have a problem with what is written is between you and God ... the Author of Scripture.
You want to make faith "required under the Law"? Have at it. At that point, you change Rom 4:4 and you do not receive the reward through grace ... you receive of debt. Have fun with that!
Your complete and utter misinterpretation of Scripture does not affect me in the least.
However, you are in deep trouble since you believe "human faith" is "faith must be in accordance with the law":
Romans 4:14 For if they which are of the law be heirs, faith is made void, and the promise made of none effect
Do not attempt to align Scripture with your erroneous dogma. You are to align your dogma to Scripture and where your dogma conflicts with Scripture, rid yourself of your dogma.
.
faith is faith. There is only one faith.
nope ... your continual manipulation of Scripture in order to substantiate your erroneous belief that "faith is required under the law" and "faith must be in accordance with the law" is nothing but balderdash.
Your statements are wholly unsubstantiated in Scripture. However, I'm sure your erroneous dogma fully embraces "faith is required under the law" and "faith must be in accordance with the law".
All you have told me is your erroneous dogma. here's a newsflash for ya, brightfame52 ... your erroneous dogma is not Scripture.
Romans 4:
13 For the promise, that he should be the heir of the world, was not to Abraham, or to his seed, through the law, but through the righteousness of faith.
14 For if they which are of the law be heirs, faith is made void, and the promise made of none effect:
...
16 Therefore it is of faith [the promise to Abraham in vs 13], that it might be by grace; to the end the promise might be sure to all the seed; not to that only which is of the law, but to that also which is of the faith of Abraham; who is the father of us all,
You sure did when you claimed "faith is required under the law" and "faith must be in accordance with the law".
You saying Jesus said "human faith is of the law" is wholly due to your manipulation of Scripture. Quit reading Scripture through the lens of your erroneous dogma.
Your misinterpretation of Scripture does not in any way, shape or form make faith = law. You, in your obstinate rejection of Scripture have made the promise of none effect for you and others who follow your dogma:
Romans 4:14 For if they which are of the law be heirs, faith is made void, and the promise made of none effect
The sole purpose of the law is to bring mankind to Messiah because justification is, always has been, and always will be, through faith ....
Galatians 3:24 Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.
.
nope ... your continual manipulation of Scripture in order to substantiate your erroneous belief that "faith is required under the law" and "faith must be in accordance with the law" is nothing but balderdash.
Your statements are wholly unsubstantiated in Scripture. However, I'm sure your erroneous dogma fully embraces "faith is required under the law" and "faith must be in accordance with the law".
All you have told me is your erroneous dogma. here's a newsflash for ya, brightfame52 ... your erroneous dogma is not Scripture.
Romans 4:
13 For the promise, that he should be the heir of the world, was not to Abraham, or to his seed, through the law, but through the righteousness of faith.
14 For if they which are of the law be heirs, faith is made void, and the promise made of none effect:
...
16 Therefore it is of faith [the promise to Abraham in vs 13], that it might be by grace; to the end the promise might be sure to all the seed; not to that only which is of the law, but to that also which is of the faith of Abraham; who is the father of us all,
You sure did when you claimed "faith is required under the law" and "faith must be in accordance with the law".
You saying Jesus said "human faith is of the law" is wholly due to your manipulation of Scripture. Quit reading Scripture through the lens of your erroneous dogma.
Your misinterpretation of Scripture does not in any way, shape or form make faith = law. You, in your obstinate rejection of Scripture have made the promise of none effect for you and others who follow your dogma:
Romans 4:14 For if they which are of the law be heirs, faith is made void, and the promise made of none effect
The sole purpose of the law is to bring mankind to Messiah because justification is, always has been, and always will be, through faith ....
Galatians 3:24 Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.
.
Read the verses again, brightfame52:
John 1:
10 He was in the world, and the world was made by him, and the world knew him not.
11 He came unto his own, and his own received him not.
12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:
13 Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.
vs 12 – first they received Him ... actively laid hold on Him (the Lord Jesus Christ);
vs 12 – then they are given power to become sons of God
Note that the verses do not say they "had been born of God" before they "received/believed on Christ" as you erroneously claim.
What John 1:12-13 tells us is that when the Lord Jesus Christ came to His own (speaking of when He lived in His physical body) those who "actively [laid] hold of to take or receive" the Lord Jesus Christ were given power to become the sons of God.
Please note the verse does not state that those who "actively lay hold of to take or receive" the Lord Jesus Christ are given "power to believe" as you erroneously claim.
Those who "actively lay hold of to take or receive" are given power to become the sons of God.
So your conclusion concerning John 1:12-13 is faulty and you have yet to prove that "a person is born again prior to believing the Gospel of Christ"
Scripture does not teach "that a person is born again prior to believing the Gospel of Christ":
Ephesians 1:13 In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise
After you heard, you believed.
After you believed, you were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise (born again)
.
John 1:
10 He was in the world, and the world was made by him, and the world knew him not.
11 He came unto his own, and his own received him not.
12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:
13 Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.
vs 12 – first they received Him ... actively laid hold on Him (the Lord Jesus Christ);
vs 12 – then they are given power to become sons of God
Note that the verses do not say they "had been born of God" before they "received/believed on Christ" as you erroneously claim.
What John 1:12-13 tells us is that when the Lord Jesus Christ came to His own (speaking of when He lived in His physical body) those who "actively [laid] hold of to take or receive" the Lord Jesus Christ were given power to become the sons of God.
Please note the verse does not state that those who "actively lay hold of to take or receive" the Lord Jesus Christ are given "power to believe" as you erroneously claim.
Those who "actively lay hold of to take or receive" are given power to become the sons of God.
So your conclusion concerning John 1:12-13 is faulty and you have yet to prove that "a person is born again prior to believing the Gospel of Christ"
Scripture does not teach "that a person is born again prior to believing the Gospel of Christ":
Ephesians 1:13 In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise
After you heard, you believed.
After you believed, you were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise (born again)
.
Romans 4:5 But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness
The verse clearly states believing is not works.
Yet you claim I "base justification on ... works".
Furthermore, the verse clearly states righteousness is imputed to those who believe on Him that justifieth.
Since it is God Who justifies, and I believe in Him, clearly I am not believing in "my works".
Since I base justification on that which God clearly states is not works, and I believe in God Who justifies, then it is you who needs to seek out from God what God means when He tells us faith is not works and what God means when He tells us to believe on Him Who justifies and He will impute righteousness to those who believe.
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The verse clearly states believing is not works.
Yet you claim I "base justification on ... works".
Furthermore, the verse clearly states righteousness is imputed to those who believe on Him that justifieth.
Since it is God Who justifies, and I believe in Him, clearly I am not believing in "my works".
Since I base justification on that which God clearly states is not works, and I believe in God Who justifies, then it is you who needs to seek out from God what God means when He tells us faith is not works and what God means when He tells us to believe on Him Who justifies and He will impute righteousness to those who believe.
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Both Romans 8:33 and Isaiah 53:6 apply to the believer.
Isaiah 53:6 applies because the verse relates to all descendants of Adam (all mankind) … All we like sheep have gone astray; we have turned every one to his own way; and the LORD hath laid on him the iniquity of us all.
Romans 8:33 applies to the believer because the verse is speaking of those who have the firstfruits of the Spirit (Rom 8:23) ... which is to be born again ... no one can lay anything to the charge of the born again one.
Those who reject Messiah, the Lord Jesus Christ, will have no excuse because God has provided to mankind all that is needed in order to live from faith to faith.
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Isaiah 53:6 applies because the verse relates to all descendants of Adam (all mankind) … All we like sheep have gone astray; we have turned every one to his own way; and the LORD hath laid on him the iniquity of us all.
Romans 8:33 applies to the believer because the verse is speaking of those who have the firstfruits of the Spirit (Rom 8:23) ... which is to be born again ... no one can lay anything to the charge of the born again one.
Those who reject Messiah, the Lord Jesus Christ, will have no excuse because God has provided to mankind all that is needed in order to live from faith to faith.
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Exactly.
if, as you claim, "God doesn’t knock on the door of the wicked, deceitful natural human heart", then there would be no reason to "resist the Holy Ghost" as stated in Acts 7:51 because (according to you) the Holy Spirit "doesn't knock on the door of the wicked, deceitful, natural human heart".
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if, as you claim, "God doesn’t knock on the door of the wicked, deceitful natural human heart", then there would be no reason to "resist the Holy Ghost" as stated in Acts 7:51 because (according to you) the Holy Spirit "doesn't knock on the door of the wicked, deceitful, natural human heart"..
Excerpt from "What is the unpardonable sin / unforgivable sin?"
The only unpardonable sin today is that of continued unbelief. There is no pardon for a person who dies in his rejection of Christ. The Holy Spirit is at work in the world, convicting the unsaved of sin, righteousness, and judgment (John 16:8). If a person resists that conviction and remains unrepentant, then he is choosing hell over heaven. “Without faith it is impossible to please God” (Hebrews 11:6), and the object of faith is Jesus (Acts 16:31). There is no forgiveness for someone who dies without faith in Christ. God has provided for our salvation in His Son (John 3:16). Forgiveness is found exclusively in Jesus (John 14:6). To reject the only Savior is to be left with no means of salvation; to reject the only pardon is, obviously, unpardonable.
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