Who Justifieth the Ungodly
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... so now you want me to believe that Romans 1:18-32 refers only to believers????
renewed
Rom 1:18-32 didnt apply to the saints, yet it was written to the saints.How can you confuse such ? The whole Letter was written to the Saints, yet everything doesnt have to apply to them. Rom 1:18-32 applied to the reprobate world which God had distinguished the Saints from.
Since, according to you, Rom 12:3 applies "only to the saints, particularly at the time of writing, the saints at Rom 1:7-8", then Rom 1:18-32 applies "only to the saints, particularly at the time of writing, the saints at Rom 1:7-8".
renewed
God saves His Elect from such a plight by His Grace and Mercy, and turns them to Himself, the turning must come from God. Acts 3:26
26 Unto you first God, having raised up his Son Jesus, sent him to bless you, in turning away every one of you from his iniquities.
Jesus turns those He saves from their sins, He gets all the credit !
Lam 5:21
Turn thou us unto thee, O Lord, and we shall be turned; renew our days as of old.
not true ... if, at any time, the person who is caught in the downward spiral shown in Rom 1:18-32 turns to the Lord, God, in His great mercy, grace, lovingkindness, will forgive.
26 Unto you first God, having raised up his Son Jesus, sent him to bless you, in turning away every one of you from his iniquities.
Jesus turns those He saves from their sins, He gets all the credit !
Lam 5:21
Turn thou us unto thee, O Lord, and we shall be turned; renew our days as of old.
renewed
God justifieth the ungodly, therefore they are justified before faith, while being ungodly. Now this applies only to Gods elect, for they are the only ones Christ died for. Rom 8:33-34
33 Who shall lay any thing to the charge of God's elect? It is God that justifieth.
34 Who is he that condemneth? It is Christ that died, yea rather, that is risen again, who is even at the right hand of God, who also maketh intercession for us.
brightfame52 – Post 2235
God Justifieth the ungodly, so that means He Justified them before Faith
reneweddaybyday – Post 2272
no it doesn't. Once a person is justified, they are no longer "ungodly".
So if a person is justified before he/she believes, he/she is not "ungodly".
Again, your erroneous dogma fails.
God Justifieth the ungodly, so that means He Justified them before Faith
reneweddaybyday – Post 2272
no it doesn't. Once a person is justified, they are no longer "ungodly".
So if a person is justified before he/she believes, he/she is not "ungodly".
Again, your erroneous dogma fails.
33 Who shall lay any thing to the charge of God's elect? It is God that justifieth.
34 Who is he that condemneth? It is Christ that died, yea rather, that is risen again, who is even at the right hand of God, who also maketh intercession for us.
renewed
A person that Christ died for, an elect, they are Justified before God before prior to any work of the Spirit upon them or in them. Now once they are born again and believe they are no longer ungodly, yet they were Justified before God before they were born again and believed.
brightfame52, a person who is justified is no longer considered "ungodly" because the Holy Spirit resides within. The Holy Spirit does not reside within the "ungodly".
renewed
Yes that's right, God justified the ungodly elect by Christs blood, prior to giving them faith so they would believe. Faith embraces the fact that they were Justified by Christs blood at the cross Rom 5:9
9 Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him.
This is basic Christianity !
9 Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him.
This is basic Christianity !
renewed
Right, so the elect were Justified while ungodly, while an unbeliever by the blood of Christ.
And since scripture expressly declares that God was justifying the ungodly, it had to be while they were unbelievers, because once a person believes, they are called believers, saints, godly.
2 Pet 2:9
The Lord knoweth how to deliver the godly out of temptations, and to reserve the unjust unto the day of judgment to be punished:
brightfame53, in your Post #910, you stated the following:
brightfame52 said:
And its no where in scripture where the believer in Christ is stated to be the ungodly
brightfame52 said:
And its no where in scripture where the believer in Christ is stated to be the ungodly
And since scripture expressly declares that God was justifying the ungodly, it had to be while they were unbelievers, because once a person believes, they are called believers, saints, godly.
2 Pet 2:9
The Lord knoweth how to deliver the godly out of temptations, and to reserve the unjust unto the day of judgment to be punished:
renewed
Thats fine for believing to be in the present tense, yet the believing is giving credence to what occurred in the past at the cross, where their Justification took place, which was before they began to believe, or even before they were born for that matter.
And no an ungodly person cannot believe, they are dead spiritually, dead to God. God because of Christs blood imputes righteousness to all for whom Christ died, even before they are born sinners.
By you stating as you do, that God justifies a person when they believe is works ! When a person is regenerated and given Faith, they look back to the cross where their Justification before God took place.
The word believeth is also present tense.
The ungodly person believes and God imputes righteousness to him/her right then, right when the person believes (present tense) ... God justifies that person, right then (present tense) ... at that point, they are no longer "ungodly".
The ungodly person believes and God imputes righteousness to him/her right then, right when the person believes (present tense) ... God justifies that person, right then (present tense) ... at that point, they are no longer "ungodly".
And no an ungodly person cannot believe, they are dead spiritually, dead to God. God because of Christs blood imputes righteousness to all for whom Christ died, even before they are born sinners.
By you stating as you do, that God justifies a person when they believe is works ! When a person is regenerated and given Faith, they look back to the cross where their Justification before God took place.
renewed
Not true. Rom 5:10 plainly says that believers had been reconciled to God while being enemies, by the death of Gods Son
10 For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.
When we were enemies is in the present tense, we were reconciled to God is in the past tense, the reconciliation to God took place in the past by the death of Christ. You can deny it if you like !
Again, if a person is "reconciled" to God, there is no more enmity.
10 For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.
When we were enemies is in the present tense, we were reconciled to God is in the past tense, the reconciliation to God took place in the past by the death of Christ. You can deny it if you like !
renewed
False, I have provided plenty of scripture support, you cant see it. Its true that by God given faith, we receive a conscious knowledge of our Justification before God at the cross. Thats what Faith is Heb 11:1
Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.
Its an evidence of spiritual realties to the mind ! Justification is one of those spiritual realties ! Justification before God is invisible, we have to be convinced of its reality, thats what Faith does and gives to the Justified.
brightfame52 – Post 2236
righteousness is received[into the conscience] when one believes, it existed before God prior to their believing
reneweddaybyday – Post 2273
113 pages into this thread and you have provided no support for your erroneous dogma that " righteousness is received[into the conscience] when one believes, it existed before God prior to their believing "
righteousness is received[into the conscience] when one believes, it existed before God prior to their believing
reneweddaybyday – Post 2273
113 pages into this thread and you have provided no support for your erroneous dogma that " righteousness is received[into the conscience] when one believes, it existed before God prior to their believing "
Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.
Its an evidence of spiritual realties to the mind ! Justification is one of those spiritual realties ! Justification before God is invisible, we have to be convinced of its reality, thats what Faith does and gives to the Justified.
renewed
Its obvious you dont understand this passage, and you are not teachable. Yet Rom 4:25 proves that those Christ died for, when He arose it was because of their Justification Rom 4:25
25 Who was delivered for our offences, and was raised again for[because of] our justification.
And this fact brings peace to the one given faith to believe its reality for them Rom 5:1
Romans 4:
20 He [Abraham] staggered not at the promise of God through unbelief; but was strong in faith, giving glory to God;
21 And being fully persuaded that, what he [God] had promised, he [God] was able also to perform.
22 And therefore it was imputed to him for righteousness.
23 Now it was not written for his sake alone, that it was imputed to him;
24 But for us also, to whom it [righteousness] shall be imputed, if we believe on him that raised up Jesus our Lord from the dead;
25 Who was delivered for our offences, and was raised again for our justification.
5:1 Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ
vs 24 - righteousness is imputed when a person believes on him that raised up Jesus our Lord from the dead ... not before.
21 And being fully persuaded that, what he [God] had promised, he [God] was able also to perform.
22 And therefore it was imputed to him for righteousness.
23 Now it was not written for his sake alone, that it was imputed to him;
24 But for us also, to whom it [righteousness] shall be imputed, if we believe on him that raised up Jesus our Lord from the dead;
25 Who was delivered for our offences, and was raised again for our justification.
5:1 Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ
vs 24 - righteousness is imputed when a person believes on him that raised up Jesus our Lord from the dead ... not before.
25 Who was delivered for our offences, and was raised again for[because of] our justification.
And this fact brings peace to the one given faith to believe its reality for them Rom 5:1
renewed
Righteousness has been imputed when one believes. The object of Faith is back at the resurrection of Christ when He arose because of their Justification, after Christ put away their sins.
vs 24 - righteousness is imputed when a person believes on him that raised up Jesus our Lord from the dead ... not before.
vs 1 - therefore being justified by faith ... the text does not read "therefore being justified before faith".
vs 1 - therefore being justified by faith ... the text does not read "therefore being justified before faith".
renewed
I know what God says it is, but I am afraid you dont. Justification by Faith is when God given Faith from the New Birth points the blood washed sinner to its object of Justification the Lord Jesus Christ.
justification by faith is what God says it is ... not what your erroneous dogma claims.
renewed
Thats correct, Whenever you the word world in scripture in the context of Salvation, like Jn 3:17
For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.
Jn 4:42
And said unto the woman, Now we believe, not because of thy saying: for we have heard him ourselves, and know that this is indeed the Christ, the Saviour of the world.
John 12:47
And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world.
Its about the elect ! People chosen from all over the world, not just from amongst the jews.
All these refer to the Justified world of the Elect !
For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.
Jn 4:42
And said unto the woman, Now we believe, not because of thy saying: for we have heard him ourselves, and know that this is indeed the Christ, the Saviour of the world.
John 12:47
And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world.
Its about the elect ! People chosen from all over the world, not just from amongst the jews.
renewed
Faith from the natural man is of the law Matt 23:23
23 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin, and have omitted the weightier matters of the law, judgment, mercy, and faith: these ought ye to have done, and not to leave the other undone.
Your feeble attempts to make faith a "doing of the Law" are nothing but the musings of your erroneous dogma.
23 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin, and have omitted the weightier matters of the law, judgment, mercy, and faith: these ought ye to have done, and not to leave the other undone.
renewed
You scoff at the doctrine of limited atonement and call it by the name of a man, yet its the Gospel you are scoffing at friend.
reneweddaybyday – Post 2212
nope ... it is a construct of the doctrine of calvinism.
limited atonement is the third letter of the acronym TULIP which is commonly known as the five points of calvinism.
nope ... it is a construct of the doctrine of calvinism.
limited atonement is the third letter of the acronym TULIP which is commonly known as the five points of calvinism.
renewed
Again, all those scriptures refer to Gods elect !
in 1 Tim 2:4, you have to change "all man" to "all elect"
1 Timothy 2:4 Who [God] will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.
in John 1:29, John 3:16-17, 1 John 2:2, you have to change "the world" and "the whole world" to "the world of the elect"
John 1:29 The next day John seeth Jesus coming unto him, and saith, Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world.
John 3:16-17 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.
1 John 2:2 And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.
1 Timothy 2:4 Who [God] will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.
in John 1:29, John 3:16-17, 1 John 2:2, you have to change "the world" and "the whole world" to "the world of the elect"
John 1:29 The next day John seeth Jesus coming unto him, and saith, Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world.
John 3:16-17 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.
1 John 2:2 And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.