Who Justifieth the Ungodly

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.

brightfame52

Well-known member
Nov 21, 2020
6,338
557
113
nope. Beginning in 1 Cor 2:6-8 the subject is not the Gospel. The subject is the mystery which was hid in God from the foundation of the world until He revealed it to Paul as explained to you in Post 3026.

That you refuse to acknowledge the mystery is error on your part.

This has been explained to you, but you prefer to suppress the truth in unrighteousness in order to hold to your erroneous dogma.

You are to align your dogma to Scripture and where you are in error, let go of the error.


READ YOUR BIBLE!!!
.
Its crystal clear 2 Cor 2:14 is about the Gospel !
 

brightfame52

Well-known member
Nov 21, 2020
6,338
557
113
:rolleyes: no descendant of Adam is born "into the world Justified before God". All descendants of Adam are born into the world in need of justification.

God imputes righteousness when a person believes ... just as is stated in Scripture. Scripture tells us Abraham believed God and then God imputed righteousness to Abraham.

Romans 4:3 For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness.

Scripture does not state that Abraham was "born into the world Justified before God". The same holds true in our day and time ... believe and then righteousness is imputed.

Those who find themselves cast into the lake of fire are those who suppress the truth in unrighteousness (Rom 1:18) when the truth of the Scriptures is revealed to them.
.
Anyone Christ died for is born into the world Justified before God by the Death of Christ, for the simple fact that He bore their sins Isa 53:11

11 He shall see of the travail of his soul, and shall be satisfied: by his knowledge shall my righteous servant justify many; for he shall bear their iniquities.
 

brightfame52

Well-known member
Nov 21, 2020
6,338
557
113
:rolleyes: Romans 5:10 does not support your claim that a descendant of Adam is "born into this world Justified before God".

The word "enemies" is translated from Greek echthros – ("enemy"), implies irreconcilable hostility,

The word "reconciled" is translated from Greek katallássōdecisively change, as when two parties reconcile when coming ("changing") to the same position.

The one who is justified by faith (Rom 5:1) is no longer an enemy because he/she is now reconciled. Both parties are now reconciled.

God (the Party of the first part) established His eternal purpose in eternity past ... and He reconciled Himself to mankind through the death of His Son.

The believer (the party of the second part) is reconciled at the time he/she is justified. At that point, both parties (God and the believer) came to the same position (see definition of reconciled translated from Greek katallássō).
.
Again, those for whom Christ died are born into the world as enemies, ungodly, yet reconciled to God, Justified by His death Rom 5:10

10 For if, when we were enemies/unbelievers, we were reconciled/Justified to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.
 

brightfame52

Well-known member
Nov 21, 2020
6,338
557
113
Acts 10:43 To him give all the prophets witness, that through his name whosoever believeth in him shall receive remission of sins.

Romans 3:24-25 Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus: Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;


READ YOUR BIBLE!!!
.
Forgiveness is by the blood of Jesus Christ, His Shed blood Matt 26:28

28 For this is my blood of the new testament, which is shed for many for the remission of sins.

If you deny this, thats a serious problem.
 
Mar 23, 2016
7,021
1,673
113
It is very interesting that you still will not acknowledge your lie that we "do not have to believe it, accept itor do anything but continue being ungodly sinners". When are you going to step away from that "false Gospel"???
its not changing
:rolleyes: still won't admit your error in stating:


those He died for do not have to believe it, accept itor do anything but continue being ungodly sinners
.
 
Mar 23, 2016
7,021
1,673
113
nope. Beginning in 1 Cor 2:6-8 the subject is not the Gospel. The subject is the mystery which was hid in God from the foundation of the world until He revealed it to Paul as explained to you in Post 3026.

That you refuse to acknowledge the mystery is error on your part.

This has been explained to you, but you prefer to suppress the truth in unrighteousness in order to hold to your erroneous dogma.

You are to align your dogma to Scripture and where you are in error, let go of the error.

READ YOUR BIBLE!!!
2 Cor 2:14 is about the Gospel !
Your claim is not supported by the context.

Beginning in 1 Cor 2:6, the subject is the hidden wisdom:

1 Corinthians 2:6-8 Howbeit we speak wisdom among them that are perfect [Greek téleios = mature]: yet not the wisdom of this world, nor of the princes of this world, that come to nought: But we speak the wisdom of God in a mystery, even the hidden wisdom, which God ordained before the world unto our glory: Which none of the princes of this world knew: for had they known it, they would not have crucified the Lord of glory.

God never hid the Gospel ... and for you to continue to conflate the hidden wisdom with the Gospel after you have been shown from Scripture that the Gospel is not the mystery is just you rejecting the truth of Scripture.

You are not to align Scripture to your erroneous dogma. You are to align your dogma to Scripture and where you are in error, let go of the error.


2 Timothy 2:15 Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.

.
 
Mar 23, 2016
7,021
1,673
113
:rolleyes: no descendant of Adam is born "into the world Justified before God". All descendants of Adam are born into the world in need of justification.

God imputes righteousness when a person believes ... just as is stated in Scripture. Scripture tells us Abraham believed God and then God imputed righteousness to Abraham.

Romans 4:3 For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness.

Scripture does not state that Abraham was "born into the world Justified before God". The same holds true in our day and time ... believe and then righteousness is imputed.

Those who find themselves cast into the lake of fire are those who suppress the truth in unrighteousness (Rom 1:18) when the truth of the Scriptures is revealed to them.
born into the world Justified
We all know the Lord Jesus Christ died for the sin of the world ... the whole world.

Isaiah 53:11 says nothing about any descendant of Adam being "born into the world Justified".

What you have failed to establish is your erroneous notion that any descendent of Adam is "born into the world Justified" ... just as you have failed to establish your erroneous notion that the world, the whole world means some sort of subset of humanity you call "the elect".
.
 
Mar 23, 2016
7,021
1,673
113
:rolleyes: Romans 5:10 does not support your claim that a descendant of Adam is "born into this world Justified before God".
born into the world as enemies, ungodly, yet reconciled to God,
:rolleyes: if they are "born into this world as enemies" then they are not "reconciled to God".

Romans 5:10 For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.

The word "enemies" is translated from Greek echthros – ("enemy"), implies irreconcilable hostility,

The word "reconciled" is translated from Greek katallássōdecisively change, as when two parties reconcile when coming ("changing") to the same position.

The one who is justified by faith (Rom 5:1) is no longer an enemy because he/she is now reconciled. Both parties are now reconciled.

God (the Party of the first part) established His eternal purpose in eternity past ... and He reconciled Himself to mankind through the death of His Son.

The believer (the party of the second part) is reconciled at the time he/she is justified. At that point, both parties (God and the believer) came to the same position (see definition of reconciled translated from Greek katallássō).
.
 
Mar 23, 2016
7,021
1,673
113
Matt 26:28

28 For this is my blood of the new testament, which is shed for many for the remission of sins.

If you deny this, thats a serious problem.
Acts 10:43 To him give all the prophets witness, that through his name whosoever believeth in him shall receive remission of sins.

Romans 3:24-25 Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus: Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God

"If you deny this, thats a serious problem."
.
 

brightfame52

Well-known member
Nov 21, 2020
6,338
557
113
Your claim is not supported by the context.

Beginning in 1 Cor 2:6, the subject is the hidden wisdom:

1 Corinthians 2:6-8 Howbeit we speak wisdom among them that are perfect [Greek téleios = mature]: yet not the wisdom of this world, nor of the princes of this world, that come to nought: But we speak the wisdom of God in a mystery, even the hidden wisdom, which God ordained before the world unto our glory: Which none of the princes of this world knew: for had they known it, they would not have crucified the Lord of glory.

God never hid the Gospel ... and for you to continue to conflate the hidden wisdom with the Gospel after you have been shown from Scripture that the Gospel is not the mystery is just you rejecting the truth of Scripture.

You are not to align Scripture to your erroneous dogma. You are to align your dogma to Scripture and where you are in error, let go of the error.


2 Timothy 2:15 Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.

.
It is supported by the context, I took time to show you that. 1 Cor 2:14 plainly teaches the natural man cannot understand the Gospel, the Cross.
 

brightfame52

Well-known member
Nov 21, 2020
6,338
557
113
We all know the Lord Jesus Christ died for the sin of the world ... the whole world.

Isaiah 53:11 says nothing about any descendant of Adam being "born into the world Justified".

What you have failed to establish is your erroneous notion that any descendent of Adam is "born into the world Justified" ... just as you have failed to establish your erroneous notion that the world, the whole world means some sort of subset of humanity you call "the elect".
.
Everyone Christ died for is born justified, reconciled to God by His death Rom 5:10

10 For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life
 

brightfame52

Well-known member
Nov 21, 2020
6,338
557
113
renew

if they are "born into this world as enemies" then they are not "reconciled to God".

Romans 5:10 For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.
Wrong, they are born into the world enemies and reconciled to God, thats what Rom 5:10 says.
 

brightfame52

Well-known member
Nov 21, 2020
6,338
557
113
Acts 10:43 To him give all the prophets witness, that through his name whosoever believeth in him shall receive remission of sins.

Romans 3:24-25 Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus: Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God

"If you deny this, thats a serious problem."
.
You continue to deny that Christs blood shed gives remission of sins for the many He died for. Matt 26:28

28 For this is my blood of the new testament, which is shed for many for the remission of sins.
 
Mar 23, 2016
7,021
1,673
113
1 Cor 2:14 plainly teaches the natural man cannot understand the Gospel, the Cross.
That you conflate the Gospel with the mystery, even the hidden wisdom does not change the fact that the subject of 1 Cor 2:14 is the mystery, even the hidden wisdom spoken of in 1 Cor 2:7.

1 Corinthians 2:6-8 Howbeit we speak wisdom among them that are perfect [Greek téleios = mature]: yet not the wisdom of this world, nor of the princes of this world, that come to nought: But we speak the wisdom of God in a mystery, even the hidden wisdom, which God ordained before the world unto our glory: Which none of the princes of this world knew: for had they known it, they would not have crucified the Lord of glory.

God never hid the Gospel.


2 Timothy 2:15 Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.


Ephesians 4:14 That we henceforth be no more children, tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men, and cunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to deceive


You are blown about in your confusion concerning the mystery ... the hidden wisdom which is the subject of 1 Cor 2:14.
.
 
Mar 23, 2016
7,021
1,673
113
they are born into the world enemies and reconciled to God
:rolleyes: if they are enemies, they are not reconciled.

I have shown you the meaning of the Greek words used for "enemies" (Gr. echthros) and "reconciled" (Gr. katallássō).

That you continue to alter the meanings of the words in order to manipulate Scripture to align with your erroneous dogma does not change the meanings of the words.

enemies is enemies (i.e. irreconcilable hostility).

reconciled is reconciled (i.e. two parties reconcile when coming ("changing") to the same position).

"they are born into the world enemies" = irreconcilable hostility.

Once a person is justified by faith (Rom 5:1), then he or she is "reconciled to God".
.
 

brightfame52

Well-known member
Nov 21, 2020
6,338
557
113
That you conflate the Gospel with the mystery, even the hidden wisdom does not change the fact that the subject of 1 Cor 2:14 is the mystery, even the hidden wisdom spoken of in 1 Cor 2:7.

1 Corinthians 2:6-8 Howbeit we speak wisdom among them that are perfect [Greek téleios = mature]: yet not the wisdom of this world, nor of the princes of this world, that come to nought: But we speak the wisdom of God in a mystery, even the hidden wisdom, which God ordained before the world unto our glory: Which none of the princes of this world knew: for had they known it, they would not have crucified the Lord of glory.

God never hid the Gospel.


2 Timothy 2:15 Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.


Ephesians 4:14 That we henceforth be no more children, tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men, and cunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to deceive


You are blown about in your confusion concerning the mystery ... the hidden wisdom which is the subject of 1 Cor 2:14.
.
1 Cor 2:14 is about the Gospel, its foolishness to the natural man

14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

1 Cor 1:18

18 For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which are saved it is the power of God.
 

brightfame52

Well-known member
Nov 21, 2020
6,338
557
113
:rolleyes: if they are enemies, they are not reconciled.

I have shown you the meaning of the Greek words used for "enemies" (Gr. echthros) and "reconciled" (Gr. katallássō).

That you continue to alter the meanings of the words in order to manipulate Scripture to align with your erroneous dogma does not change the meanings of the words.

enemies is enemies (i.e. irreconcilable hostility).

reconciled is reconciled (i.e. two parties reconcile when coming ("changing") to the same position).

"they are born into the world enemies" = irreconcilable hostility.

Once a person is justified by faith (Rom 5:1), then he or she is "reconciled to God".
.
You flat out deny the scripture, thats unbelief Rom 5:10

10 For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death[Cross] of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.

See, to you the preaching of the cross/death of Christ is foolishness. You wonder on how can one be reconciled to God while being an enemie !