Whom Did Christ Die For?

[ThereRoseaLamb]

So this has become the question in another thread. Did Christ die for only the elect or die He die for all. Here are the two views;


1. Limited atonement, sometimes called particular redemption, is based on the doctrine of election or predestination.

Since only the elect of God will be saved, the reasoning goes, Jesus must have died only for them. Otherwise, Jesus’ death “failed” those who are not elect. If Jesus died for everyone, then hell will be full of people for whom Jesus died—was His atonement insufficient? If Jesus died only for the elect, then His atonement perfectly accomplished its goal. Every person for whom Jesus died will be in heaven.




2. Unlimited atonement, on the other hand, says that Jesus died for everyone but that only those who respond in faith will reap the benefits of His sacrifice. In other words, Jesus’ death was sufficient for all, but only effectual for some (those who have faith). If Jesus did not die for everyone, the reasoning goes, then the offer of salvation is empty, because the non-elect cannot be saved.


I find this a very interesting question. I am digging deeper to fully explain what I believe and why. Does anyone else care to take a crack at it. Please use Scripture in your answer where possible.

 

[mrsjones]

He died for sinners.

 

[ButterflyJones]

Eklektos, or eklektoi (Greek plural of “elect”) Romans 8:33.

Romans 8
29 For those God foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brothers and sisters. 30 And those he predestined, he also called; those he called, he also justified; those he justified, he also glorified.
More Than Conquerors
31 What, then, shall we say in response to these things? If God is for us, who can be against us? 32 He who did not spare his own Son, but gave him up for us all—how will he not also, along with him, graciously give us all things? 33 Who will bring any charge against those whom God has chosen? It is God who justifies.

 

[BonnieClaire]

Christ died for me

 

[ThereRoseaLamb]

He died for sinners.

When Jesus heard it, He said unto them, “They that are whole have no need of the physician, but they that are sick. I came not to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance.”

Just in case there is any doubt...

 

[Nehemiah6]

Does anyone else care to take a crack at it. Please use Scripture in your answer where possible.

One Scripture shold suffice: But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death, crowned with glory and honour; that he by the grace of God should taste death for every man. (Heb 2:9)

This is an exact translation for the Greek: τὸν δὲ βραχύ τι παρ' ἀγγέλους ἠλαττωμένον βλέπομεν Ἰησοῦν διὰ τὸ πάθημα τοῦ θανάτου δόξῃ καὶ τιμῇ ἐστεφανωμένον ὅπως χάριτι θεοῦ ὑπὲρ παντὸς* γεύσηται θανάτου

*Strong's Concordance
pas: all, every
Original Word: πᾶς, πᾶσα, πᾶν
Part of Speech: Adjective
Transliteration: pas
Phonetic Spelling: (pas)
Definition: all, every
Usage: all, the whole, every kind of.

 

[oyster67]

2. Unlimited atonement, on the other hand, says that Jesus died for everyone but that only those who respond in faith will reap the benefits of His sacrifice. In other words, Jesus’ death was sufficient for all, but only effectual for some (those who have faith). If Jesus did not die for everyone, the reasoning goes, then the offer of salvation is empty, because the non-elect cannot be saved.

This is correct.

 

[Webers.Home]

.

Christ died for me

When all is said and done, and we're down to the wire: the only people that
matter for whom Christ died boils down to just one individual.

You gotta walk that lonesome valley,
You gotta walk it by yourself,
Nobody here can walk it for you,
You gotta walk it by yourself.
(Woody Guthrie)
_

 

[JaumeJ]

Jesus walked this lonesome valley,
He had to walk it by Himself,
O nobody else could walk it for Him,
He had to walk it by Himself.

Jesus went and stood His trial,
He had to stand it by Himself,
O nobody else could stand it for Him,
He had to stand it by Himself.

You must walk this lonesome valley,
You have to walk it by yourself
O nobody else can walk t for you,
You have to walk d it by yourself.

Grammar School

 

[IsaiahA]

One Scripture shold suffice: But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death, crowned with glory and honour; that he by the grace of God should taste death for every man. (Heb 2:9)

This is an exact translation for the Greek: τὸν δὲ βραχύ τι παρ' ἀγγέλους ἠλαττωμένον βλέπομεν Ἰησοῦν διὰ τὸ πάθημα τοῦ θανάτου δόξῃ καὶ τιμῇ ἐστεφανωμένον ὅπως χάριτι θεοῦ ὑπὲρ παντὸς* γεύσηται θανάτου

*Strong's Concordance
pas: all, every
Original Word: πᾶς, πᾶσα, πᾶν
Part of Speech: Adjective
Transliteration: pas
Phonetic Spelling: (pas)
Definition: all, every
Usage: all, the whole, every kind of.

No, that is not the exact translation of the Greek. The Greek for "man" in not there. The every "?" must be taken from the context. The next verse, 10, states who the "every" refers to: "in bringing many sons unto glory".

One verse that to me proves definite or particular redemption is the following, first in the KJV and then the Weymouth.

"And they sung a new song, saying, Thou art worthy to take the book, and to open the seals thereof: for thou wast slain, and hast redeemed us to God by thy blood out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation;" (Rev 5:9)

"And now they sing a new song. "It is fitting," they say, "that Thou shouldst be the One to take the book And break its seals; Because Thou hast been offered in sacrifice, And hast purchased for God with Thine own blood Some out of every tribe and language and people and nation," (Rev 5:9)

 

[Nehemiah6]

No, that is not the exact translation of the Greek. The Greek for "man" in not there.

The Greek word literally means "all". Therefore "every man" is correct (and many translations have "everyone" which is the same thing). I already posted the meaning of the word. So you are another one who is trying to DISTORT THE TRUTH. Just bear in mind that these are not simply word games and theological games. You will give account for perverting the Word of God. Be warned.

 

[Edify]

John 3:16 “For God so loved the world, that He gave His only Son, so that everyone who believes in Him will not perish, but have eternal life.
2 Peter 3:9 The Lord is not slow about His promise, as some count slowness, but is patient toward you, not willing for any to perish, but for all to come to repentance.

 

[Blade]

At the time there was only the Torah then after Christ died and rose (WOOT CHEER!) sill only had the Torah. "For God so loved the world He gave His only son that who so ever believes in Him shall not die but have ever lasting life." So seems simple to me. As Edify posted "all" and all means all thats all all means

 

[Everlasting-Grace]

unlimited is the only truth..

thats why we can be saved by faith, or not saved by unbelief..

 

[Bob-Carabbio]

So this has become the question in another thread. Did Christ die for only the elect or die He die for all. Here are the two views;


1. Limited atonement, sometimes called particular redemption, is based on the doctrine of election or predestination.

Since only the elect of God will be saved, the reasoning goes, Jesus must have died only for them. Otherwise, Jesus’ death “failed” those who are not elect. If Jesus died for everyone, then hell will be full of people for whom Jesus died—was His atonement insufficient? If Jesus died only for the elect, then His atonement perfectly accomplished its goal. Every person for whom Jesus died will be in heaven.




2. Unlimited atonement, on the other hand, says that Jesus died for everyone but that only those who respond in faith will reap the benefits of His sacrifice. In other words, Jesus’ death was sufficient for all, but only effectual for some (those who have faith). If Jesus did not die for everyone, the reasoning goes, then the offer of salvation is empty, because the non-elect cannot be saved.


I find this a very interesting question. I am digging deeper to fully explain what I believe and why. Does anyone else care to take a crack at it. Please use Scripture in your answer where possible.

The Effectiveness of the Atonement is clearly "limited" and the MAJORITY of humanity WILL NOT be "Born Again" (Mat 7:14). The only QUESTION deals with the mechanism of the limitation.

Ignoring the "theological claims" of the popular systematics, what is Biblically clear is that to come to Christ, one must be DRAWN TO HIM BY FATHER (John 6:44). THIS indicates that salvation STARTS with Father God, who draws individuals to Christ (Rom 9).

 

[Everlasting-Grace]

The Effectiveness of the Atonement is clearly "limited" and the MAJORITY of humanity WILL NOT be "Born Again" (Mat 7:14). The only QUESTION deals with the mechanism of the limitation.

Ignoring the "theological claims" of the popular systematics, what is Biblically clear is that to come to Christ, one must be DRAWN TO HIM BY FATHER (John 6:44). THIS indicates that salvation STARTS with Father God, who draws individuals to Christ (Rom 9).

this does not mean atonement is limited per say.

Atonement was paid. Because of it, mankind is offered grace. however, it is only through faith that the atonement will be applied..

 

[Nehemiah6]

THIS indicates that salvation STARTS with Father God, who draws individuals to Christ (Rom 9).

The Father, the Son, and the Holy Sprit are always in perfect accord. So since the Son and the Spirit draw ALL MEN to Christ, it follows that the Father does the same. It is not the Father alone, but the Godhead which draws all men to Christ through the Gospel, with the Holy Spirit empowering the Gospel.

 

[listenyoumustAll]

So this has become the question in another thread. Did Christ die for only the elect or die He die for all. Here are the two views;


1. Limited atonement, sometimes called particular redemption, is based on the doctrine of election or predestination.

Since only the elect of God will be saved, the reasoning goes, Jesus must have died only for them. Otherwise, Jesus’ death “failed” those who are not elect. If Jesus died for everyone, then hell will be full of people for whom Jesus died—was His atonement insufficient? If Jesus died only for the elect, then His atonement perfectly accomplished its goal. Every person for whom Jesus died will be in heaven.




2. Unlimited atonement, on the other hand, says that Jesus died for everyone but that only those who respond in faith will reap the benefits of His sacrifice. In other words, Jesus’ death was sufficient for all, but only effectual for some (those who have faith). If Jesus did not die for everyone, the reasoning goes, then the offer of salvation is empty, because the non-elect cannot be saved.


I find this a very interesting question. I am digging deeper to fully explain what I believe and why. Does anyone else care to take a crack at it. Please use Scripture in your answer where possible.

Jesus died for the world . Everyone

 

[ThereRoseaLamb]

Jesus died for the world . Everyone

I would agree 100% with you brother.

 

[studentoftheword]

thread Topic

Whom Did Christ Die For?

Did Christ die for only the elect or die He die for all.

I don't think it should be about who Jesus died for ---it should be ---Why Did Jesus have to Die at all ??

All life of the soul is in the Blood -----So Jesus had to die to Shed His Blood to remove sins to provide eternal life ---a Life for a life ------

Posting 2 same scriptures from different Bibles ----

Leviticus 17:11 ------
Good News Translation
The life of every living thing is in the blood, and that is why the LORD has commanded that all blood be poured out on the altar to take away the people's sins. Blood, which is life, takes away sins.

Leviticus 17:11 Expanded B
11 This is because the life of the body is in the blood, and I have given you rules for pouring that blood on the altar ·to remove your sins so you will belong to the Lord [to make atonement]. It is the blood that ·removes the sins [makes atonement], because it is life.

I say
So in the Old Testament ----an animal had to give up its life ----be void of it's blood to make atonement for sin---so there was a life for a life ----and that was just for one Nation ------the Jews -----God's Chosen -----the Gentiles were excluded -----so the atonement was Limited to the Jews -----here

Jesus came and included all people in His Sacrifice ----He spilled His Blood to cover all Sin for All people for all time --and no one is excluded ----Sin is no longer an issue to have eternal life ----Jesus gave His life to give us eternal life -----His Life for our Life ------A Life for a Life

I say -------But there is a Condition to have your sins forgiven and have this Eternal Life --and Jesus tells us how we can have it -----


John 11:25-26
Amplified Bible, Classic Edition

Jesus Comforts the Sisters of Lazarus

25 Jesus said to her, I am [Myself] the Resurrection and the Life. Whoever believes in (adheres to, trusts in, and relies on) Me, although he may die, yet he shall live;

26 And whoever continues to live and believes in (has faith in, cleaves to, and relies on) Me shall never [actually] die at all. Do you believe this?


I say
So we see that today only the people who true Faith in Jesus and adhere to ---trusts in and relies on and cleaves to Him shall have their sins forgiven and have eternal life -----

So many can say they are Christians and believe in Jesus but not receive Jesus as their Lord and Saviour

So while all can have their sins forgiven ----
without receiving Jesus as their Lord and Saviour they are SOL -----their sins are not forgiven ---so you still have Limited Atonement------here in my view ------without Jesus your doomed -----

Now The Calvinist believe that God chooses who will be saved and who won't -------and that Floks goes against what the scripture says -----the take predestination and use it to make up their own Doctrine from this ------

Calvinist do not believe that faith in Jesus is needed -----God in His Grace saves who He wants to save that is how they interpret ---

from Google

At its heart is the concept of predestination. Calvinists believe that, at the beginning of time, God selected a limited number of souls to grant salvation and there's nothing any individual person can do during their mortal life to alter their eternal fate.

This goes against this scripture