Why Are Rich People Related To Camels?

[posthuman]

I think it all comes down to that one word, EASIER. Nothing any more complicated than that.

+

​

I think the key part of the verses you mention occurs 2 verses later...

Matthew 19:26 But Jesus beheld them, and said unto them, With men this is impossible; but with God all things are possible

+ the verse in-between!
​

what Christ says provokes and responds to the disciples reaction to it. understanding what he said has to fit into that context - they were blown away by this:

When the disciples heard this, they were very astonished and said,
“Then who can be saved?”​

so it's easier for something to occur, something which seems so impossible that it destroyed any idea the disciples had of anyone being saved.

That's the key. We can't! Not now. Not when we weren't saved. Not ever!

"but with God, all things are possible"

​

All of him for all of us! He is, quite literally "The Way."

♥ amen

 

[Locutus]

Since you're citing a plagiarized, perverted hoax as if it's relevant, maybe you
should also relay what the Book of Mormon has to say concerning the matter.

Here, this should provide some relief...

 

[Depleted]

Google "Eye of a Needle Door" and Images. What you will more than likely see is door within a huge door. In the Walled cities of those ages they did not dare to open the huge Doors of the City so they had small doors that people could come and go through, but a huge army couldn't rush through.

Thus for a Camel to go through this "Needle" he had to get on his knees and crawl through, likewise a Rich Man must also get on his knees before God.

Fake News, Internet style. And the gate story was an old wives' tale to begin with.

 

[preacher4truth]

Adam Clarke's commentary:

Verse 24
A camel - Instead of καμηλον, camel, six MSS. read καμιλον, cable, a mere gloss inserted by some who did not know that the other was a proverb common enough among the people of the east.


There is an expression similar to this in the Koran. "The impious, who in his arrogance shall accuse our doctrine of falsity, shall find the gates of heaven shut: nor shall he enter there till a camel shall pass through the eye of a needle. It is thus that we shall recompense the wicked." Al Koran. Surat vii. ver. 37.


It was also a mode of expression common among the Jews, and signified a thing impossible. Hence this proverb: A camel in Media dances in a cabe; a measure which held about three pints. Again, No man sees a palm tree of gold, nor an elephant passing through the eye of a needle. Because these are impossible things. "Rabbi Shesheth answered Rabbi Amram, who had advanced an absurdity, Perhaps thou art one of the Pembidithians who can make an elephant pass through the eye of a needle; that is, says the Aruch, 'who speak things impossible.'"

See Lightfoot and Schoettgen on this place.

Go through - But instead of διελθειν, about eighty MSS. with several versions and fathers, have εισελθειν, to enter in; but the difference is of little importance in an English translation, though of some consequence to the elegance of the Greek text.

---

Interesting.

It seems the OP is attempting to, by exchanging camel for rope, make salvation possible by man. This is directly opposed to the Gospel and words of Christ.

The scenario of unraveling the rope until there is only a thread, thus making it possible to thread the needle is seriously straining the text and distorting Gospel truth. I don't believe it intentional though, but out of zeal and new discoveries, this can be done unintentionally. Nevertheless this is what has taken place.

 

[unobtrusive]

Camels are stubborn hah

Got that right. Do they chew their cud and have a spit hoof "kinda'." LOL "Unclean." Animals in the Old Testament represent qualities of humans. Old Testament animals, clean and unclean, are in lieu of the person who offers the sacrifice. Now, in the New Testament we are to present ourselves as a "living sacrifice." Then we are not stubborn any more because of a repentant heart.

 

[peacefulbeliever]

Just a little information.

"The eye of a needle." "Gamla" is a word in Aramaic and Syriac which has four meanings: (1.)

camel; (2.) beam; (3.) rope; and (4.) anything which is larger than the given object. "Camel" here should be "rope."
This is an idiom. . . . . . There is a word in Syriac—"gamla" which has four meanings according to usage: (1.) camel; (2.) beam; (3.) rope; and (4.) anything which is larger than the given object. Here it should be rope. Houses in Occident (West) are different from Oriental houses (East). Bible describes the life of
oriental people as a whole and unless you understand this life, you will not understand the Bible.
If you go to a small town, there will be walls around the town. Every evening they shut the gate to
the city. When the gate is shut, no one can go out until gate is opened in the morning. What if someone
wants to get into the town at about midnight? The gate keeper will open a little window in the door which
is big enough for your head to go in. The gate keeper will allow the person to crawl through the small
window. This little window is called the eye of the needle.

"Eye of a needle." "Camel" should be rope.

Camel through eye of a needle. In the East, a small town of 3,000 people will have walls around it.
There is a gate in one of the walls, it is closed at sundown and opened again in the morning. If someone
is late getting back, will he be shut out? The gate keeper can be called. He will not open the gate; but he
will open a small window which is large enough for your head to go in. This meant that the man who is
late, if his voice is recognizable to the gate keeper, will be allowed to crawl back into the town through
the window. This is Matthew 19:24. The needle is the small window. Inside the temple door there is a
similar window.

MATTHEW - Bishop KC Pillai

 

[p_rehbein]

So, basically, what you are saying you learned is that EVERY PERSON with WEALTH MUST give that wealth away in order to inherit eternal life?

Hmm....................

 

[garee]

I would offer, it would be easier for a ceremonial unclean animal which typifies an unbeliever or a fool than a person who thinks their riches of this world will help them enter heaven. John the Baptist coming on the scene is shown wearing camel clothing along with other forbidden items as his calling card. It would be a way to announce the coming of Christ, the time of reformation was near.

Ceremonial laws used in parables were used to preach the gospel of Christ in respect to the suffering of Christ beforehand and the glory of His finished work

Lev 11:4 Nevertheless these shall ye not eat of them that chew the cud, or of them that divide the hoof: as the camel, because he cheweth the cud, but divideth not the hoof; he is unclean unto you.

Matthew 3:4 And the same John had his raiment of camel's hair, and a leathern girdle about his loins; and his meat was locusts and wild honey.

2Ki 1:8 And they answered him, He was an hairy man, and girt with a girdle of leather about his loins. And he said, It is Elijah the Tishbite.

 

[unobtrusive]

Just a little information.

"The eye of a needle." "Gamla" is a word in Aramaic and Syriac which has four meanings:...

Thank you for sharing your input. I am glad to see that you also attempt to study with an open mind and are willing to share what you find.

 

[unobtrusive]

So, basically, what you are saying you learned is that EVERY PERSON with WEALTH MUST give that wealth away in order to inherit eternal life?

Hmm....................

Absolutely not. Jesus was making the point, as He often did, to the man in Matthew 19:16-29 that keeping the Mosaic Law does not secure salvation for anyone, and essentially giving the same teaching He did to the pharisees in Matthew 23:23. To paraphrase Jesus' point -- Look beyond the physical.

 

[unobtrusive]

Semantics of “camel” as follows…
“Andagain I say unto you, It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of aneedle, than for a rich man to enter into the kingdom of God.” Matthew. 19:24.

The Aramaic word gamla means camel, a large rope and a beam.The meaning of the word is determined by its context, If the word riding orburden occurs then gamla means a camel, but when the eye of aneedle is mentioned gamla more correctly means a rope, Thereis no connection anywhere in Aramaic speech or literature between camel andneedle, but there is a definite connection between rope and needle. Easternwomen when purchasing thread often say, “It is a rope, I cannot use it,” whichmeans it is too thick. Then again, there are ropes in every Eastern home, usedto tie up burdens on the backs of men and of animals. When not used, the ropeis hung on the wall or laid in a corner of the house.

The discussion about the rich man probably took place in the house. Jesuspointed to the rope in the house to illustrate what he was saying in condemningthe greed of Eastern rich men, who had acquired their wealth unjustly. He said,“It is easier for a rope to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich manto enter into the kingdom of God.” Then again there are different kinds ofneedles in use in the East: the tiny needle for fine embroidery, the commonneedle for sewing which is larger, and the big needle about five or seveninches long, which working men often carry fastened to their garments orattached to the rope. A good sized cord could easily be passed through thisneedle, which is used chiefly for sewing large bags, rugs and tents woven ofgoat’s hair.

Biblical students have suggested that when Jesus referred to “needle eye” hemeant the little gate on the wall. As there is no such gate in any orientalcity called “needle eye” where camels could pass through, this interpretationis incorrect. Some of the ancient walled cities in the east still remain thesame as in the ancient days. They have several large entrances at various partsof the wall known as “gates.” Men, camels , and all animals enter and leavethrough them. They are the only possible place a camel could enter. The Gospelsays nothing of such a gate and plainly refers to the eye of a needle. Dadlillgamla lmeal bakhrora damgata au atira dneaol lmacootha dalaha means“It is easier for a rope to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich manto enter into the kingdom of God.”

The word gamla is also used in Matthew 23:24, but here it means camel becauseJesus was talking about baka, gnat, and contrasting it with camel.In this case, both objects were alive and the hyperbole was justified, as itwould not have been in Matthew. 19:24 whichwould have made no sense. Everybody in the Orient knows that a camel couldnever pass through a needle’s eye, but that a rope might at least be forcedthrough the eye of a large needle.

Such expressions as rope and needle, camel and gnat, are common in Easternusage, but the comparison or contrast must have some connection, otherwise theillustration would be meaningless. The repetition of some Aramaic words inwidely different contexts is largely due to a limited vocabulary. Aramaic is anancient language, and the Gospels were written at a time when languages did notrequire a large vocabulary and new ideas were not prevalent. The art of writingwas practically recent and printing was invented in Europe fourteen centurieslater. Mark 10:25; Luke 18:25.

 

[unobtrusive]

I would offer, it would be easier for a ceremonial unclean animal which typifies an unbeliever or a fool than a person who thinks their riches of this world will help them enter heaven. John the Baptist coming on the scene is shown wearing camel clothing along with other forbidden items as his calling card. It would be a way to announce the coming of Christ, the time of reformation was near.

Ceremonial laws used in parables were used to preach the gospel of Christ in respect to the suffering of Christ beforehand and the glory of His finished work

Lev 11:4 Nevertheless these shall ye not eat of them that chew the cud, or of them that divide the hoof: as the camel, because he cheweth the cud, but divideth not the hoof; he is unclean unto you.

Matthew 3:4 And the same John had his raiment of camel's hair, and a leathern girdle about his loins; and his meat was locusts and wild honey.

2Ki 1:8 And they answered him, He was an hairy man, and girt with a girdle of leather about his loins. And he said, It is Elijah the Tishbite.

Thank you for your input!
So-o-o many lessons to learn and so little time! As a "babe in Christ" I wondered how people could read the Bible every day for years and keep learning new stuff. Of course, all I was basing that on was the ordinary books I had read in my life up to that point. Now I see how reading the Word of God over and over with a desire to grow in Christ - to have the mind of Christ - really works.

 

[Issachar92]

When Jesus said eye of the needle He meant this: (Its in Israel)

 

[Locutus]

Darn.......

 

[joaniemarie]

I had been confused about a certain scripture for years – Matthew 19:24 “And again I say unto you, It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle, than for a rich man to enter into the kingdom of God.” I wondered about this because as a young (and often broke!) believer, I saw people that appeared to be believers, and had way more money than they needed, that would in my mind, be “heaven bound” when they died. I finally did research and found a technical error in the translation from the original.

So there is no misunderstanding, know that I wholeheartedly believe that God has preserved His Word completely and understandably enough for all of us to be able to acquire salvation, in spite of the many different versions and translations of the Bible. But I had to dig deeper on this one and I wanted to share what I found with anyone who might have the same questions I did. (Edifying one another, you know )

Matthew 19:24 KJV – “And again I say unto you, It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle, than for a rich man to enter into the kingdom of God.”
The original reads: “And again I say to you that it is easier for a rope to enter into the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter into the Kingdom of Elohim.”
And I found this note: “Gamala refers to a “heavy rope” rather than a “camel” which is also spelled gimel-meem-lamed-alap. Greek scholars puzzled over a camel entering through the eye of a needle, which is a physical impossibility. Jesus is clearly not saying a rich man can’t enter, or he would not “love” this one! The “heavy rope” lesson teaches about a rich man entering heaven after he “unravels” his fortune strand by strand as Jesus instructs. If his wealth was bound tightly and strong as a rope, it is to be unwound like threads which will pass through the eye of a needle. Careful attention is required to thread a needle; so are the rich obligated unto God for how their wealth is acquired and dispersed. Theological attempts to “prove” the eye of a needle to be a geographical location have utterly failed.”

I don't know about all that (rope or camel) but I do know this... When we are growing up and start learning about money and what it does.,, we notice the haves and the have not's., then we start to wonder and worry., where our parents fit in...where we fit in.. where do we want to fit in as adults...etc.... It doesn't take long for worry and fear of lack to set in.

Being one of the 'have not's' doesn't seem very appealing. So we don't want to be without resources. For many years our family tried to secure ourselves to be one of the 'haves' so we would not find ourselves without security and hope in the world. We feared and so we strived to be secure and safe. We didn't need a whole lot., just enough.

So we strived for just having enough. But even that is striving in and of ourselves., and we lost even the little we had unless we sweated and stressed and got ulcers to pay for it. And even then there was NO guarantee it would not be depleted and eventually totally gone due to some unseen unplanned for situation.

Why did we live this way!!?? Because we were of the big fat camel/or rope in the eye of the tiny needle scenario. With the mind set of meeting our own needs we lost even the little we had living hand to mouth. And with that mindset of fear and lack., we were like drowning victims holding on to the little we had in and of ourselves., even to the detriment of our lives!

Thanks to JESUS and His HOLY SPIRIT., today as a mature older woman., He showed the NEW AND LIVING WAY!! No more striving., no more worry over being one of the "have's or have not's" Jesus has made all blessings abound in our lives. The only requirement is being IN Christ and depending on Him and not ourselves. Having faith in His ability to do as He promises and NOT our ability to do for ourselves., to meet requirements in and of ourselves.., to supply our own needs for ourselves. No., not that way. Why? because Jesus has met all of the requirements for us. Now by grace through faith., we have them all.

How many Christians really can say they believe that? How many Christians have even been taught that? I was not taught to depend solely on Christ ability to be the Good Shepherd of my life., So I strived to meet my own needs.. and lost. Psalm 23 is not for the dead but for the living. The Holy Spirit is intimately involved in the process too.


[SUP]1 [/SUP]The Lord is my Shepherd [to feed, guide, and shield me], I shall not lack.
[SUP]
2 [/SUP]He makes me lie down in [fresh, tender] green pastures; He leads me beside the still and restful waters.
[SUP]
3 [/SUP]He refreshes and restores my life (my self); He leads me in the paths of righteousness [uprightness and right standing with Him—not for my earning it, but] for His name’s sake.
[SUP]
4 [/SUP]Yes, though I walk through the [deep, sunless] valley of the shadow of death, I will fear or dread no evil, for You are with me; Your rod [to protect] and Your staff [to guide], they comfort me.
[SUP]
5 [/SUP]You prepare a table before me in the presence of my enemies. You anoint my head with [SUP][a][/SUP]oil; my [brimming] cup runs over.
[SUP]
6 [/SUP]Surely or only goodness, mercy, and unfailing love shall follow me all the days of my life, and through the length of my days the house of the Lord [and His presence] shall be my dwelling place.
[h=4]Footnotes:[/h]

1. Psalm 23:5 It is difficult for those living in a temperate climate to appreciate, but it was customary in hot climates to anoint the body with oil to protect it from excessive perspiration. When mixed with perfume, the oil imparted a delightfully refreshing and invigorating sensation. Athletes anointed their bodies as a matter of course before running a race. As the body, therefore, anointed with oil was refreshed, invigorated, and better fitted for action, so the Lord would anoint His “sheep” with the Holy Spirit, Whom oil symbolizes, to fit them to engage more freely in His service and run in the way He directs—in heavenly fellowship with Him.

 

[loveme1]

I think someone mentioned this.. but the title keeps taking my attention on the bdf... very noticeable hehe.. lovely...

 

[graceNpeace]

One or two posters have come close to getting the gist of the message:
The "eye of the needle" was always a gate-within-a-gate.
Large cities (Jerusalem would have been the only city within Palestine that was fully walled and therefore gated in Biblical times) had gates that controlled access to that city.
However, the large gates were infrequently opened.
Instead a smaller gate (found within the larger gate) would be used instead.
The dimensions of the gate were such that any beast of burden could just fit through.
This meant that every animal had to be offloaded in order to pass through the gate.
That animal would then be reloaded after passing through.
The point of the exercise was that all goods were inspected for both security and tax purposes by the city guards.

Relating this knowledge to the passage of text originally cited is simple:
A rich man is just like the fully loaded camel.
Getting into heaven is likened to passing through the eye of the needle...
In other words the only way to pass is to completely divest oneself of one's worldly possessions.
The problem is not the wealth (or in the case of the camel its burden) per se but in the rich man's reluctance to acknowledge that his wealth cannot come with into heaven.
The rich will often tend to cling to their wealth as their ultimate salvation whereas, in fact, it has no intrinsic spiritual value!

Twigging to the spiritual lessons outlined were the cause of the astonished reaction by Jesus' disciples

 

[p_rehbein]

FROM THE OP:

Jesus is clearly not saying a rich man can’t enter, or he would not “love” this one! The “heavy rope” lesson teaches about a rich man entering heaven after he “unravels” his fortune strand by strand as Jesus instructs. If his wealth was bound tightly and strong as a rope, it is to be unwound like threads which will pass through the eye of a needle. Careful attention is required to thread a needle; so are the rich obligated unto God for how their wealth is acquired and dispersed.



How do you match the comment below with the comment above? Pretty clear that the comment in red is saying that a rich man must unravel his wealth...........which is why I asked the question to begin with.....

The two comments do not relate in my opinion

Absolutely not. Jesus was making the point, as He often did, to the man in Matthew 19:16-29 that keeping the Mosaic Law does not secure salvation for anyone, and essentially giving the same teaching He did to the pharisees in Matthew 23:23. To paraphrase Jesus' point -- Look beyond the physical.