Why do we argue over the meaning of scriptures in the Bible among ourselves?

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ResidentAlien

Well-known member
Apr 21, 2021
7,498
3,116
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#41
usually people are pretty good at sniffing out false gospel and not even acknowledging it on here, though I dont quite get why some posters like to always post dubious you tube videos and get people to watch them, even when they are false to expose them

they dont even deserve the exposure, it just calls more attention to them. why waste time on lies when you can know the truth? Dont even invite them to your hard drive. You might put a NO JUNK mail sign on your letterbox, why not do the same on your posts.

garbage in, garbage out.

it would be like me posting advertising on here and saying hey everyone look how terrible and misleading this ad is! Its so wrong! lets all discuss how wrong it is!
Lanolin, what exactly is it you have against someone pointing out sources of poison in the body? Is it something you object to generally or just here on this forum? You know you can simply not participate in those discussions. But I get the sense from you that you feel it does some kind of harm. What's the problem? Explain it to me.

I'm curious because it's not just you but many others express the same view.
 

allsaved

Junior Member
Sep 13, 2015
56
23
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#42
I’d say mostly it’s because of false teachings having spread through the church some believe those things others believe what’s plainly written

once a false doctrine takes root in our mind it has a blinding effect and can destroy faith causing us to reject what is plainly stated in the Bible. Doctrine is super important because it shapes how we think and believe.

It’s why we are warned so very much not to stray from the gospel and the doctrine of Christ

Whether it was Jesus saying it in the gospel or Peter or Paul or John

“But there were false prophets also among the people, even as there shall be false teachers among you, who privily shall bring in damnable heresies, even denying the Lord that bought them, and bring upon themselves swift destruction.

And many shall follow their pernicious ways; by reason of whom the way of truth shall be evil spoken of.”
‭‭2 Peter‬ ‭2:1-2‬ ‭KJV‬‬


“For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears; And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables.”
‭‭2 Timothy‬ ‭4:3-4‬ ‭

“Whosoever transgresseth, and abideth not in the doctrine of Christ, hath not God.

He that abideth in the doctrine of Christ, he hath both the Father and the Son.

If there come any unto you, and bring not this doctrine, receive him not into your house, neither bid him God speed:”
‭‭2 John‬ ‭1:9-10‬ ‭KJV‬‬

throughout the epistles we are warned severely not to part from the truth of Jesus Christ and his word. This is not something we should ignore as so many do if we stick to the truth of the gospel we will come to agreement and this understanding

“And we know that the Son of God is come, and hath given us an understanding, that we may know him that is true, and we are in him that is true, even in his Son Jesus Christ. This is the true God, and eternal life. Little children, keep yourselves from idols. Amen.”
‭‭1 John‬ ‭5:20-21‬ ‭KJV‬‬

false doctrine will always corrupt mankind it’s why Adam and Eve fell
Into sin and death and will always lead us to that place of we reject what God said and accept what satan said which is what false doctrine actually is the word of the devil

all we have to do is stick to learning from the gospel and our Lord and savior Jesus Christ and we can trust his promises as well as his instructions

“Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.”
‭‭John‬ ‭5:24‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Accepting his word provides that same promise over and over but to reject his word promises this over and over

“He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day.”
‭‭John‬ ‭12:48‬ ‭KJV‬‬

false doctrine has been spread into all the world because the gospel has been spread into the world it’s satans only hope of destroying us to get us to deny the word of our Lord and savior so like he did in the beginning he questions what God said and offers alternate “truths “

just like the popular teachers who sell thier books do today spreading thier own ideas for profit calling a believer to believe “ the gospel Jesus spoke really isn’t for you trust my word instead “
Wintersrain is a wise soul. Amen, Wintersrain!
 

allsaved

Junior Member
Sep 13, 2015
56
23
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#43
I hear what you're saying. On the other hand, we have an obligation to protect and defend those who are suffering and struggling. I can't sit by and idly watch others be devoured. And because of my willingness to defend, people use my defense as a way to state that I am divisive and even "unwell."

I will never stop defending those who are struggling. When I see someone in a ditch, I will stop and pull them out. When I see a fire, I will run straight to it. That's how I've always been and I don't know that it can change until the Lord causes me to change.
I think you've got it right. We should follow our consciences and the Holy Spirit will show us what is right and the right way to do right. Often times the offenders don't even realize they have committed an offense. They jsbelieve they are right and that makes it ok.
that of course is self-righteousness and in Matt 23 Jesus makes it very clear to the Pharisees whad th thinks about it.
Wintersrain is a wise soul. Amen, Wintersrain!
 

allsaved

Junior Member
Sep 13, 2015
56
23
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#44
Because many believe the distortion of truth is deserving of correction. The intention is valid, but the conversation could be kinder. There is a time and a place for everything, even authoritative reproof.
“These things (vs 2- "the things fitting for sound doctrine") speak and exhort and reprove with all authority. Let no one disregard you.” (Titus 2:15)

Regardless, the sword will cut those who hear, but we may better prepare them with gentleness.

“with gentleness correct those who are in opposition, if perhaps God may grant them repentance leading to the knowledge of the truth” (2 Timothy 2:25)
 
R

RichMan

Guest
#45
All Christian people accept the Bible is true and God's words to the world.

Why do we join in community and not discuss but argue over what the various teachings or supporting passages are actually saying?
Is it up to us to translate God's words to our liking?

And why is it that in most all Christian communities the BDF, Bible Discussion Forum, is the most incendiary , drama filled, anger filled, confrontational, mean, board of any other on any Christian community site?
Because (place your name here) is always right and (place everyone who disagrees name here) are always wrong.
 

allsaved

Junior Member
Sep 13, 2015
56
23
8
71
#46
I think you've got it right. We should follow our consciences and the Holy Spirit will show us what is right and the right way to do right. Often times the offenders don't even realize they have committed an offense. They jsbelieve they are right and that makes it ok.
that of course is self-righteousness and in Matt 23 Jesus makes it very clear to the Pharisees whad th thinks about it.
 

wintersrain

Active member
Feb 20, 2022
257
57
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#47
Great thoughts here. I appreciate the contributions. :)
 

wintersrain

Active member
Feb 20, 2022
257
57
28
#49
Do you have any ideas of how we can put it to a conclusive end?

I think that we should ask people to stop bothering us, giving them multiple chances to stop. When they refuse to stop, we need to let them know that they're being placed on the Ignore list so that they'll understand why, in the future, when you try to communicate with them, we won't respond. Then, after a period of time, I believe that these folks should be taken off of the Ignore list and given another chance. Christ gave each of us a chance . . . we owe that same consolation to each person here.

Every person on this Forum is important to me. There are no exceptions. I value each person at a basic, core level. I don't value the cruel things that are said, nor do I value the continued, repeated jabs, but I do recognize that all people have the opportunity to change how they feel inside and should be given an opportunity to be given as many chances as they ask.

I am not perfect, thus I cannot expect anyone to be perfect. I have hurt others in the past, so I am no greater than anyone who has ever lived. And because I have hurt others in the past, it seems ridiculous to point fingers. The truth is, is that we have all hurt folks in our past; we are all guilty. Therefore, if we're all guilty, then forgiveness ought to be easy. It's a wash. We're simply playing the game of the Devil as he sits back and watches us bite one another to death. All that we have to do is make a commitment to be respectful of each other's ideas and opinions. If we don't like what another has to say, just say, "Okie doke" and move on (for example). It isn't hard; it isn't a requirement that we make hard points.

I don't know about you folks, but I have a basic, core Love for each of you and it cannot be shaken regardless of anything said against me.
People will be people. Sounds simplistic but you asked. ;) One thing I've learned in my walk in this world. Greater ego and pride does not exist than a people, an individual, who is absolutely certain God loves them more than anyone else in the world.

That observation is going to meet scrutiny certainly. As is intended. Because it may cause someone to think about what was being said.
If we believe God loves us enough to save us from the plans he made for the whole world that are those not his chosen, we should feel humility, gratitude, and peace. While looking deeper to ask ourselves what is the message in that core teaching in his word?

As long as we think of God in human terms, using human intellect, and hold to that, I don't think we'll see the deeper message. We have to think outside the box. And I think the box is human intellect and its limits. That many of us don't accept as relating at all to comprehending the almighty. all-mighty and sovereign.

I think we argue often times because we're defending a god we've created in our image and likeness. And that's due to limited consciousness that thinks remaining in the box and the confines of the book, the Bible, that actually invites us to look deeper for God.

There's an old saying that is often disparaged because some think a feminist, who happens to also be a Christian, coined the idea and therefore it is unworthy of respect. However, I find it to be true. Maybe some of you have encountered people in the church or in community that sound like this.

“You can safely assume you've created God in your own image when it turns out that God hates all the same people you do.” Anne Lamott
 

2ndTimothyGroup

Well-known member
Feb 20, 2021
5,206
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#50
People will be people. Sounds simplistic but you asked. ;) One thing I've learned in my walk in this world. Greater ego and pride does not exist than a people, an individual, who is absolutely certain God loves them more than anyone else in the world.

That observation is going to meet scrutiny certainly. As is intended. Because it may cause someone to think about what was being said.
If we believe God loves us enough to save us from the plans he made for the whole world that are those not his chosen, we should feel humility, gratitude, and peace. While looking deeper to ask ourselves what is the message in that core teaching in his word?

As long as we think of God in human terms, using human intellect, and hold to that, I don't think we'll see the deeper message. We have to think outside the box. And I think the box is human intellect and its limits. That many of us don't accept as relating at all to comprehending the almighty. all-mighty and sovereign.

I think we argue often times because we're defending a god we've created in our image and likeness. And that's due to limited consciousness that thinks remaining in the box and the confines of the book, the Bible, that actually invites us to look deeper for God.

There's an old saying that is often disparaged because some think a feminist, who happens to also be a Christian, coined the idea and therefore it is unworthy of respect. However, I find it to be true. Maybe some of you have encountered people in the church or in community that sound like this.

“You can safely assume you've created God in your own image when it turns out that God hates all the same people you do.” Anne Lamott
I'm sorry, but were you responding to what I wrote?
 

arthurfleminger

Well-known member
Aug 18, 2021
1,405
766
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#52
We argue about the meaning of Scripture amongst ourselves because we want our own opinions/thoughts to be true, rather than those of Scripture. Why so many different opinions and translations of Scripture amongst Christians? Because we deem ourselves to be our own little infallible popes, inerrant on our interpretation of Scripture. We raise ourselves, not the Holy Spirit, as the authority on Scripture.

Peter condemns private interpretation of Scripture, saying " No prophecy [or explanation] of Scripture is made by private interpretation." (2 St. Peter i. 20.)
 

arthurfleminger

Well-known member
Aug 18, 2021
1,405
766
113
#53
We argue about the meaning of Scripture amongst ourselves because we want our own opinions/thoughts to be true, rather than those of Scripture. Why so many different opinions and translations of Scripture amongst Christians? Because we deem ourselves to be our own little infallible popes, inerrant on our interpretation of Scripture. We raise ourselves, not the Holy Spirit, as the authority on Scripture.

Peter condemns private interpretation of Scripture, saying " No prophecy [or explanation] of Scripture is made by private interpretation." (2 St. Peter i. 20.)
If so many of us disagree on the true meaning and interpretation of Scripture, that means that many of us are just wrong. If one person interprets Scripture in one way and another Christian in another, both can't be right. Either one or both is just wrong. That's a simple concept to grasp.
 

arthurfleminger

Well-known member
Aug 18, 2021
1,405
766
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#54
We argue about the meaning of Scripture amongst ourselves because we want our own opinions/thoughts to be true, rather than those of Scripture. Why so many different opinions and translations of Scripture amongst Christians? Because we deem ourselves to be our own little infallible popes, inerrant on our interpretation of Scripture. We raise ourselves, not the Holy Spirit, as the authority on Scripture.

Peter condemns private interpretation of Scripture, saying " No prophecy [or explanation] of Scripture is made by private interpretation." (2 St. Peter i. 20.)
Many interpret Scriptures to coincide with what they want to believe. And when this happens, Scripture no longer becomes the Word of God but the word of the person who is interpreting Scripture for their own benefit.
 

2ndTimothyGroup

Well-known member
Feb 20, 2021
5,206
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#55
If so many of us disagree on the true meaning and interpretation of Scripture, that means that many of us are just wrong. If one person interprets Scripture in one way and another Christian in another, both can't be right. Either one or both is just wrong. That's a simple concept to grasp.
That's seems right to me. And, we should be terrified if what you're saying is True.

Galatians 1:8 KJV - "But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed."
 

GaryA

Truth, Honesty, Love, Courage
Aug 10, 2019
9,003
3,941
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mywebsite.us
#56
We argue about the meaning of Scripture amongst ourselves because we want our own opinions/thoughts to be true, rather than those of Scripture. Why so many different opinions and translations of Scripture amongst Christians? Because we deem ourselves to be our own little infallible popes, inerrant on our interpretation of Scripture. We raise ourselves, not the Holy Spirit, as the authority on Scripture.

Peter condemns private interpretation of Scripture, saying " No prophecy [or explanation] of Scripture is made by private interpretation." (2 St. Peter i. 20.)
That is one of the most misinterpreted and misused verses of scripture in the Bible. (it seems)

Kinda funny that you said all of that - and then proceeded to seriously misinterpret and misuse it...
 

Diakonos

Well-known member
Jan 19, 2019
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#57
We argue about the meaning of Scripture amongst ourselves because we want our own opinions/thoughts to be true, rather than those of Scripture. Why so many different opinions and translations of Scripture amongst Christians? Because we deem ourselves to be our own little infallible popes, inerrant on our interpretation of Scripture. We raise ourselves, not the Holy Spirit, as the authority on Scripture.

Peter condemns private interpretation of Scripture, saying " No prophecy [or explanation] of Scripture is made by private interpretation." (2 St. Peter i. 20.)
Correct.
God knows we cannot understand his thoughts...so He gave us His words. If we all took Scripture at face value (literally), we would all end up at the same place, doctrinally. But many think God meant something other than what he said, which is where sects and denominations and arguments arise. The authority of Scripture shifts to us when we say it means something other than what it says. Also, many don't understand that the Bible is clear how figurative language can be detected and understood objectively. But people tend to be literalistic (not to be confused with literal), or allegorical as their default approach. Both are fallacious. God talks to us through His word the same we talk to each other every day: literally, with a mutual understanding of some figurative language.
 

GaryA

Truth, Honesty, Love, Courage
Aug 10, 2019
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#58
That is one of the most misinterpreted and misused verses of scripture in the Bible. (it seems)

Kinda funny that you said all of that - and then proceeded to seriously misinterpret and misuse it...
Not trying to start an argument; rather, pointing out just how easy it is to err if we are not really careful.
 

2ndTimothyGroup

Well-known member
Feb 20, 2021
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#59
God talks to us through His word the same we talk to each other every day: literally, with a mutual understanding of some figurative language.
Hmmm . . . I've never heard anyone say this before. Do you really believe that the Bible reflects the way we talk to each other every day? I'm not seeing that . . . at all. I must be misunderstanding you. Sorry.
 

Diakonos

Well-known member
Jan 19, 2019
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#60
Hmmm . . . I've never heard anyone say this before. Do you really believe that the Bible reflects the way we talk to each other every day? I'm not seeing that . . . at all. I must be misunderstanding you. Sorry.
That's ok, I'll try to clarify for you.

In short, we mean exactly what we say with the exception of our mutual understanding and usage of figurative language. In other words, there is no reason for you to assume I mean anything other than what I say unless I say something we both understand as a figurative phrase that corresponds to a literal meaning in our shared language.

If I said: "The sermon was astonishing", you should understand that as "The sermon was astonishing".
If I said: "The sermon took my breath away", you should understand that as "The sermon was astonishing"

The 1st phrase means exactly what it means.
The 2nd phrase means exactly what the 1st phrase means.
In English, we share a common understanding that the 2nd phrase means what the 1st phrase says. If a foreigner hears me say the 2nd phrase, they might not believe or understand me because the literalistic meaning is so improbable, and in some cases of figurative language, impossible.

This is the challenge with figurative language in the Bible. We sometimes do not understand that a Jewish (or Biblically associated) figure of speech is being used, so we might assume the literalistic interpretation is absurd, and we invoke another (false) meaning to a text that "makes more sense" in our mind. Every figurative usage in the Bible is either already established in the Jewish culture or in a passage of Scripture.

For example,
Daniel 7 clearly says that the 4 beasts are 4 kingdoms and the 10 horns of the 4th beast are 10 kings.
Revelation 17 - the angels tells John the waters which he saw (earlier) are peoples and multitudes and nations and tongues
(in short, humanity).
Revelation 12 says that the dragon is Satan.

Consider all that, look at how the beast of Revelation 13:1-10 is described:

“Then I saw a beast rise out of the sea, having ten horns...And the dragon gave him his power and great authority...the whole earth was amazed and followed after the beast...and they worshiped the beast, saying, “Who is like the beast, and who is able to wage war with him?”...It was also given to him to make war with the saints and to overcome them (Revelation 13:1–10)​

These symbols are not ambiguous; They are defined either in the passage, somewhere else in the Revelation, or in the Old Testament.

We can objectively understand this passage as something like:

A kingdom will arise out of humanity, composed of ten rulers. Satan will empower it with great authority
and the whole earth will revere it as invincible, and it will be empowered to destroy the saints in war.

Now go read Daniel 2, 7, 8, 11 and evaluate its legitimacy. The whole Revelation can be understood without ambiguity by just taking God's word at face value and apprehending what we do not (yet) understand.

Now there are many more details I could have mentioned and defined in the Revelation 13 passage, but I gave just some key points to get the main picture across. The book of Revelation is a timeline of vision, expressed in symbols, and grounded in reality. I know that is an intense example because there are so many Biblically established figures of speech lumped together in the book (518 OT references in 22 chapters). But that is how you go about understanding Biblically established figurative language. As for the (already established) Jewish figures of speech, which are intrinsic to the culture, you can identify many from their usage and association to other things in the Bible, or you can independently study cultural concepts that don't make sense in our language (English).