Why do we celebrate Christmas?

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Why do we celebrate Christmas?

  • Cuz it's Jesus' Birthday

    Votes: 8 29.6%
  • Cuz it's Traditional

    Votes: 5 18.5%
  • I have a another reason -

    Votes: 4 14.8%
  • I don't celebrate Christmas

    Votes: 10 37.0%

  • Total voters
    27

JohnDB

Well-known member
Jan 16, 2021
5,599
2,201
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#41
Okay. But, again, us not being able to properly say His name is much different than willingly celebrating something that is steeped in pagan roots. Can you imagine if Gideon had told God, "You know this high place you want torn down? I think we can just turn it into a holy place for you, and it'll be all good." No. God doesn't want us to take those evil, pagan things and twist them into a weird sort of worship towards Him.

I get we can have "fond memories" about xmas. People also get "fond memories" from the premarital sex they've engaged in. Some get "fond memories" from stealing. Others have "fond memories" of doing horrendous things. Does that make it okay as long as we're only worshiping Yahweh while we do them? There is no condemnation to those that are in Christ...so that gives us freedom to do whatever we want, as long as it's in His name? That's what I'm getting from this whole thread.

Saturnalia/Christmas...a rose by any other name...changing the names and making it "Christian" doesn't make it so.

Anyway, that's my 2 cents.
The ONLY people who teach about this sort of stuff is overly legalistic Christians. It's never been about any of that stuff for me and those I worship with. (And I have serious doubts about the validity of your claims)

So, to me, my worship is pure...we aren't licensing sin. We aren't trying to win a "Holier than thou" contest or anything else. Nor are we making fond memories of fornication or orgies of people getting hurt.

We are promoting family time...hearth and home...where the standards of upright living are supposed to come from in our overly busy lives.
 

Genipher

Well-known member
Jan 6, 2019
2,185
1,564
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#42
The ONLY people who teach about this sort of stuff is overly legalistic Christians. It's never been about any of that stuff for me and those I worship with. (And I have serious doubts about the validity of your claims)

So, to me, my worship is pure...we aren't licensing sin. We aren't trying to win a "Holier than thou" contest or anything else. Nor are we making fond memories of fornication or orgies of people getting hurt.

We are promoting family time...hearth and home...where the standards of upright living are supposed to come from in our overly busy lives.
Hm. I think it's dangerous to accuse someone of being legalistic to justify one's own desires.

At this point, as was said in the Princess Bride, we are at an impasse. I've shared why I think xmas isn't to be celebrated and you've shared why the traditions mean so much to you. Can't go any further with it, so, until we meet again in another conversation... :giggle:
 

JohnDB

Well-known member
Jan 16, 2021
5,599
2,201
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#43
Hm. I think it's dangerous to accuse someone of being legalistic to justify one's own desires.

At this point, as was said in the Princess Bride, we are at an impasse. I've shared why I think xmas isn't to be celebrated and you've shared why the traditions mean so much to you. Can't go any further with it, so, until we meet again in another conversation... :giggle:
It's also dangerous to accuse someone of worshipping a phoney god they never heard of before or that they are practicing some form of taboo when they are actually trying very hard to promote truly good things that God has specifically said to do.

In fact scriptures mention false accusers very specifically as being in league with Satan.

So when doing a risk assessment....I'm on much safer ground.
 

JohnDB

Well-known member
Jan 16, 2021
5,599
2,201
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#46
Neither of those alleged "holy days" were set apart by God.
Do we need them to be?

We, as people, need to set apart certain days to remember and celebrate our faith. It worked for Old Covenant...and that framework has been carried into the New Covenant era....because it's good for us.

It's so lazily easy to not celebrate anything...to go the extra mile for God on an annual basis on specific days.
And then an excuse to spread the gospel message evaporates.
 

Magenta

Senior Member
Jul 3, 2015
55,809
25,988
113
#47
Neither of those alleged "holy days" were set apart by God.
Golly gee, you are right about that!

1 Thessalonians 5:18
Give thanks in every circumstance, for this is God’s will for you in Christ Jesus.


Ephesians 5:20
Giving thanks always for all things unto God and the Father in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ;


Colossians 3:17
And whatsoever ye do in word or deed, do all in the name of the Lord Jesus, giving thanks to God and the Father by Him.


^ These may then be applicable :)
 
L

Live4Him2

Guest
#48
Golly gee, you are right about that!

1 Thessalonians 5:18
Give thanks in every circumstance, for this is God’s will for you in Christ Jesus.


Ephesians 5:20
Giving thanks always for all things unto God and the Father in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ;


Colossians 3:17
And whatsoever ye do in word or deed, do all in the name of the Lord Jesus, giving thanks to God and the Father by Him.


^ These may then be applicable :)
How about this instead?

We celebrate the New Year when GOD actually says it is, and similarly celebrate Christ's birth when he was actually born?

It never ceases to amaze me how so many professing Christians will defend lies while forsaking the actual truth.
 

blueskies

Active member
Apr 2, 2022
150
122
43
Pacific Northwest
#51
Everything in scripture points to the first day of the month of Nisan.
Thank you for your answer.

I hadn’t thought to deeply about this but was of course aware that December 25th was likely not Christs actual birthdate, but had in fact been arrived at by early church fathers. There is much written on the early church wanting to either take advantage of, or redirect, existing pagan celebrations in order to leverage enthusiasm for existing popular celebrations. This makes sense when the aim on is to convince as many as possible of the good news. But even this seems to be poorly documented.

I personally don’t have an issue with December 25th; Christ brought the new covenant and I am fine with December 25th as a date to celebrate the coming light of the longer days and the light of the new covenant, particularly in absence of definitive or universally accepted documentation of an actual or specific date. It seems births in general we’re regarded with less emphasis than now and were not recorded or celebrated in Jesus’s time as they are in current times.

After your response I spent a few hours of casual research and found no real consensus. The Bible itself is silent on the actual day or the time of year when Mary was said to have given birth to him in Bethlehem. The earliest Christians did not celebrate his birth. It wasn't until A.D. 440 that the church officially proclaimed December 25 as the birth of Christ. As for a birth date I found multiple theories with the most prevalent being a September-October birth or May-June birth, but even these seem to be based on supposition arrived at by deduction of tenuously related scriptural references, non scriptural history, some biblical inferences made on the likely grazing habits shepherd’s flocks (implying Jesus was born during warmer months) or the attempt to work backwards from John’s (the Baptist) conception and birth.

The truth as to an actual date seems to be unprovable currently.
Still it was a fun rabbit hole to go down.
 
L

Live4Him2

Guest
#52
Thank you for your answer.

I hadn’t thought to deeply about this but was of course aware that December 25th was likely not Christs actual birthdate, but had in fact been arrived at by early church fathers. There is much written on the early church wanting to either take advantage of, or redirect, existing pagan celebrations in order to leverage enthusiasm for existing popular celebrations. This makes sense when the aim on is to convince as many as possible of the good news. But even this seems to be poorly documented.

I personally don’t have an issue with December 25th; Christ brought the new covenant and I am fine with December 25th as a date to celebrate the coming light of the longer days and the light of the new covenant, particularly in absence of definitive or universally accepted documentation of an actual or specific date. It seems births in general we’re regarded with less emphasis than now and were not recorded or celebrated in Jesus’s time as they are in current times.

After your response I spent a few hours of casual research and found no real consensus. The Bible itself is silent on the actual day or the time of year when Mary was said to have given birth to him in Bethlehem. The earliest Christians did not celebrate his birth. It wasn't until A.D. 440 that the church officially proclaimed December 25 as the birth of Christ. As for a birth date I found multiple theories with the most prevalent being a September-October birth or May-June birth, but even these seem to be based on supposition arrived at by deduction of tenuously related scriptural references, non scriptural history, some biblical inferences made on the likely grazing habits shepherd’s flocks (implying Jesus was born during warmer months) or the attempt to work backwards from John’s (the Baptist) conception and birth.

The truth as to an actual date seems to be unprovable currently.
Still it was a fun rabbit hole to go down.
I only have a minute or two because I need to get ready for work.

Jesus definitely wasn't born in the Falltime or Wintertime.

I mean, if we look at God's feasts, for example, then we come to recognize that the Springtime feasts (Passover, Unleavened Bread, Firstfruits, and Pentecost) were all fulfilled on their literal calendar days at Christ's FIRST coming. Conversely, the Falltime feasts will be fulfilled at Christ's second coming. Seeing how everything in the Spring pointed to Christ's first coming, why would we even consider that his birth, which definitely occurred during his first coming, wouldn't similarly being foreshadowed by an event in the Springtime as well?

A lot of people WRONGLY look to the Falltime feast of Tabernacles as a potential date of Christ's birth because "the Word was made flesh and dwelt (literally "tabernacled") among us", but, quite frankly, that is ridiculous. For one thing, every Jew was required to be in Jerusalem at three set times in their calendar year, and the Feast of Tabernacles was one of those three times. With such being the case, there's simply no way that Joseph would have been in Bethlehem at that time or that the inns would have been filled there at that time either. Furthermore, there would have literally been an uproar/uprising if Caesar had commanded all of the Jews who were supposed to be in Jerusalem at that time to return to their own cities.

That said, there is great significance to Christ "tabernacling among us" in that Moses tabernacles was set up on the first day of Nisan/Abib.

Exodus chapter 40

[1] And the LORD spake unto Moses, saying,
[2] On the first day of the first month shalt thou set up the tabernacle of the tent of the congregation.

Also, God had previously told Moses the following:

Exodus chapter 20

[1] And the LORD spake unto Moses and Aaron in the land of Egypt, saying,
[2] This month shall be unto you the beginning of months: it shall be the first month of the year to you.

Seeing how Jesus is "the beginning" and "the first", there is great significance that this date, the first day of Nisan/Abib, marked the beginning of a new year for the Israelites.

Anyhow, did you watch the video that I previously linked to?

Here it is, again:


Gotta run...
 
Nov 26, 2021
1,125
544
113
India
#54
From: https://onepeterfive.com/dates-years-birth-death-christ/

"First Point: John the Baptist was conceived around late September of 3 B.C. near the Day of Atonement.
A Hebrew calendar shows that the Day of Atonement (also called Yom Kippur) was on Sep. 19, 3 B.C. It is the contention of this article that the Baptist was conceived around this time, when St. Zachary was ministering in the Temple. In other words, the story of our salvation began on the ancient Day of Atonement commanded by God, which is fitting. It is here that the Gospel events recorded by St. Luke in chapter 1 really begin to take off.

Luk 1:5 “There was in the days of Herod, the king of Judea, a certain priest named Zachary, of the course of Abia; and his wife was of the daughters of Aaron, and her name Elizabeth.”

As Dr. Marshall explains, a course of Abia occurs in September, and there is evidence in this passage to suggest that the time is around the Day of Atonement, when the high priest goes into the holy place, as we read in Ex. 30:10, Lev. 16:3, Heb. 9:7, etc.

Second Point: Jesus Christ Our Lord was conceived around six months after St. John the Baptist.
Moreover, we know from the same chapter that Our Lady conceived Christ about six months after St. Elizabeth conceived the Baptist. For the Angel says (36), “And behold thy cousin Elizabeth, she also hath conceived a son in her old age; and this is the sixth month with her that is called barren: [37] Because no word shall be impossible with God.”

Now, if the Baptist was conceived in late September, Christ the Lord would have been conceived in late March. Similarly, we can reasonably deduce that the Baptist would be born around late June, nine months after conception.

Third Point: Therefore, Christ Our Lord was conceived on March 25, 2 B.C. and born Dec. 25, 2 B.C.

It is an interesting point that “the twenty-fifth day of the ninth month, that is, the month of Kislev” (1 Mac. 4:22) was already held in honor as a Festival of Light. It is the Feast of Dedication in winter mentioned by St. John (10:22). The Hebrew calendar begins in March-April in Nisan, so its ninth month roughly comes to our twelfth month, December, in most years. It is highly fitting that the 25th day of the 12th month on the Christian calendar should have been set apart for Christ, “The Light of the World” (Jn. 8:12), to make His entrance into the world.

The Baptist being born in late June, as shown in the Second Point, Christ Our Lord certainly would have been born around late December. The witness of Tradition, of very early historical Tradition, is clear on this point.

Bp. Theophilus (115–181 A.D.) stated: “We ought to celebrate the birthday of Our Lord on what day soever the 25th of December shall happen.”

Saint Hippolytus (170–240 A.D.) wrote: “The First Advent of our Lord in the flesh occurred when He was born in Bethlehem, was December 25th, a Wednesday, while Augustus was in his forty-second year, which is five thousand and five hundred years from Adam.”

St. Augustine finally confirms: “But he was born, according to Tradition, upon December the 25th.”

In sum, Our Lord’s date of birth: Dec. 25, 2 B.C. Our Lord’s date of crucifixion: April 3, 33 A.D.

Therefore, the first Easter: April 5, 33 A.D. The 50th day, the first Pentecost: May 24, 33 A.D."
 

Robertt

Well-known member
May 22, 2019
898
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Bahrain
#55
as i said,. who cares Lets just party and have fun whenever we want to celebrate and for whatever reason . give thanks to God for all the Good we find

less arguing and more partying
 

Genipher

Well-known member
Jan 6, 2019
2,185
1,564
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#56
as i said,. who cares Lets just party and have fun whenever we want to celebrate and for whatever reason . give thanks to God for all the Good we find

less arguing and more partying

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Blade

Well-known member
Nov 19, 2019
1,607
575
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#58
My first thought was "wow this is old" haha. I look at it like one day to God is like a thousand years and a thousand years like one day. So it still was just a tad over two days when Christ came. And I wonder did they all stop cheering praising worshiping? Every day its XMAS.