Why I Believe Judas Iscariot is Saved Pt 1
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The Scripture is given to us for our training and admonition.
It is also given to us for doctrine/teaching (2 Tim. 3:16-17.
It is also given to us so that we may do all God asks of us. Are you familiar with this:
Deuteronomy 29:29 (KJV)
[SUP]29 [/SUP]The secret things belong unto the LORD our God: but those things which are revealed belong unto us and to our children for ever, that we may do all the words of this law.
The Scripture belongs to us so that we can be obedient and do all the words of "this" law.
I took a second look at the life of Judas using the Scripture, that book of writings God said that belongs to me so I can KNOW what He expects of me? Well, that's why I post this study. So that others who understand the grace of God and the nature of salvation can also apply those greatly loved doctrines in Scripture to the life of Judas and walk away KNOWING Judas is a brother in Christ under the Law just as David is, and Jeremiah, and Ezekiel, and Adam, and Seth, etc.
Was Judas an apostle of the Lamb looking at Luke 6:12-13?
yea or nay?
It is also given to us for doctrine/teaching (2 Tim. 3:16-17.
It is also given to us so that we may do all God asks of us. Are you familiar with this:
Deuteronomy 29:29 (KJV)
[SUP]29 [/SUP]The secret things belong unto the LORD our God: but those things which are revealed belong unto us and to our children for ever, that we may do all the words of this law.
The Scripture belongs to us so that we can be obedient and do all the words of "this" law.
I took a second look at the life of Judas using the Scripture, that book of writings God said that belongs to me so I can KNOW what He expects of me? Well, that's why I post this study. So that others who understand the grace of God and the nature of salvation can also apply those greatly loved doctrines in Scripture to the life of Judas and walk away KNOWING Judas is a brother in Christ under the Law just as David is, and Jeremiah, and Ezekiel, and Adam, and Seth, etc.
Was Judas an apostle of the Lamb looking at Luke 6:12-13?
yea or nay?
sorry i guess i'm jumping the gun
yes, "yea, verily" just as it was also recorded in Matthew 10:2-4 Judas was called by Christ an apostle, and also sent, and was at that time named among those to whom He said "anyone who welcomes you welcomes me" (Matthew 10:40)
how could i deny it?
Excellent! I must give credence to a brother who sees the truth and declares it as written in Scripture.
Now, since you agree with the Holy Spirit who Authored the Scripture your involvement in this thread is over. Wait for the next thread on Judas and join that discussion and let's see if the Lord can edify you with His Word.
Personally, I believe He will.
One brick at a time.
OK?
[God, how I love your people saying the same thing as you!]
B
Nay, Judas was a follower with the other eleven but never believed nor was the Spirit breathed upon him. He was given opportunity and much grace but his heart remained hardened and in unbelief. Any sinner, liar or traitor can follow the Lord as Judas did. He was picked by the Lord so that the scriptures could be fulfilled. Judas was a thief (in the bag) and went to his place upon his death, even though he knew he had betrayed an innocent man. I am sure it grieved the Lord in a measure that Judas was to be used to fulfill this betrayal as the son of perdition, but Satan entered into him and the rest is history. Judas did not have the conviction that the other eleven had and it became evident.
Judas could have left off following the Lord as the seventy had done but he choose to fulfill his act of betrayal and did so for thirty pieces of silver. His greed got the best of him and his motivation and fate for following the Lord was revealed and sealed by his own guilt and shame. You totally have the wrong idea about Judas because of your false doctrine that you adhere to. You are being mislead through your sentimentality and your understanding has been darkened. You can take that or leave it because you inquiries are filled with deceit. To converse with you is only empty vanity from here on out until God is able to bring you to a place where you can be converted in your heart through humility and grace.
Judas could have left off following the Lord as the seventy had done but he choose to fulfill his act of betrayal and did so for thirty pieces of silver. His greed got the best of him and his motivation and fate for following the Lord was revealed and sealed by his own guilt and shame. You totally have the wrong idea about Judas because of your false doctrine that you adhere to. You are being mislead through your sentimentality and your understanding has been darkened. You can take that or leave it because you inquiries are filled with deceit. To converse with you is only empty vanity from here on out until God is able to bring you to a place where you can be converted in your heart through humility and grace.
First, it is bad hermeneutics to take one passage to the exclusion of other clear passages and try to make a case or doctrine...that is how cults operate. As to your question...
Luke 6:12-13 And it came to pass in those days, that he went out into a mountain to pray, and continued all night in prayer to God.
And when it was day, he called unto him his disciples: and of them he chose twelve, whom also he named apostles;
Very easily could mean that God the Father directed the Son, while in prayer, to pick Judas Iscariot as part of the overall plan and final demise of the one who would eventually betray the Son. It gives no proof that Judas would be saved, that is pure asinine conjecture in the light of clear Scriptures that others have posted earlier...but you'd rather play with a stacked deck.
Does your church teach what you are trying to promote or you don't have a church?
Luke 6:12-13 And it came to pass in those days, that he went out into a mountain to pray, and continued all night in prayer to God.
And when it was day, he called unto him his disciples: and of them he chose twelve, whom also he named apostles;
Very easily could mean that God the Father directed the Son, while in prayer, to pick Judas Iscariot as part of the overall plan and final demise of the one who would eventually betray the Son. It gives no proof that Judas would be saved, that is pure asinine conjecture in the light of clear Scriptures that others have posted earlier...but you'd rather play with a stacked deck.
Does your church teach what you are trying to promote or you don't have a church?
OK. Let's see if I can get you focused. There are many erroneous statements you make and it is a lot of work when you make so many....but I am not being swamped with comments so I am able to give you a thoughtful response:
The Holy Spirit rested on Jesus alone while He was on the planet. He didn't give the disciples the Holy Spirit when He breathed on them in John 20:22. It makes no sense for them to have the Holy Spirit breathed on them and then at the actual advent of the Holy Spirit come upon them again. There are not two salvation's, just one, and when the Holy Spirit shows up and upon a person He comes only ONE TIME.
Acts 2 is the Advent (coming) of the Holy Spirit to indwell the believer. Besides, Jesus Himself said the Holy CANNOT come unless He departs (leaves)
John 16:7 (KJV)
[SUP]7 [/SUP]Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you.
Let's keep it Biblical, OK Brad?
Grace did not come UNTIL the Holy Spirit came. There was no salvation grace" when Jesus was with the disciples and walked the earth. They were UNDER THE LAW (they only knew the letter of the Law, not the spirit of the Law, which came IN CHRIST and this was the whole conflict between Jesus and the religious leaders. They knew and taught the letter of the Law and Jesus taught the spirit of the Law.
Jesus picked Judas because of a Sovereign act and will of God which was already contemplated and decided in eternity past when God first contemplate creating heaven, earth, and man. It was the choosing of Judas FIRST and which the Scripture was later written (prophesied) about.
But let me ask you since you said a true thing ("he had betrayed an innocent man").
Under the Law what is the penalty for being complicit in "betraying an innocent man?"
It's only the first Scripture that I bring up that addresses the life of Judas and the Doctrine that is rightly applied. How can you disagree with the Lord's very own words?
Now, let me ask you as per Luke 6:12-13...
Was Judas a true apostle of the Lamb?
Yea or nay?
That's all. Don't go off and confuse the answer and question with all that verbiage.
Was Judas a true apostle of the Lamb called and elect in the same as the other eleven?
Yea or nay?
The Holy Spirit rested on Jesus alone while He was on the planet. He didn't give the disciples the Holy Spirit when He breathed on them in John 20:22. It makes no sense for them to have the Holy Spirit breathed on them and then at the actual advent of the Holy Spirit come upon them again. There are not two salvation's, just one, and when the Holy Spirit shows up and upon a person He comes only ONE TIME.
Acts 2 is the Advent (coming) of the Holy Spirit to indwell the believer. Besides, Jesus Himself said the Holy CANNOT come unless He departs (leaves)
John 16:7 (KJV)
[SUP]7 [/SUP]Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you.
Let's keep it Biblical, OK Brad?
Grace did not come UNTIL the Holy Spirit came. There was no salvation grace" when Jesus was with the disciples and walked the earth. They were UNDER THE LAW (they only knew the letter of the Law, not the spirit of the Law, which came IN CHRIST and this was the whole conflict between Jesus and the religious leaders. They knew and taught the letter of the Law and Jesus taught the spirit of the Law.
Jesus picked Judas because of a Sovereign act and will of God which was already contemplated and decided in eternity past when God first contemplate creating heaven, earth, and man. It was the choosing of Judas FIRST and which the Scripture was later written (prophesied) about.
But let me ask you since you said a true thing ("he had betrayed an innocent man").
Under the Law what is the penalty for being complicit in "betraying an innocent man?"
It's only the first Scripture that I bring up that addresses the life of Judas and the Doctrine that is rightly applied. How can you disagree with the Lord's very own words?
Now, let me ask you as per Luke 6:12-13...
Was Judas a true apostle of the Lamb?
Yea or nay?
That's all. Don't go off and confuse the answer and question with all that verbiage.
Was Judas a true apostle of the Lamb called and elect in the same as the other eleven?
Yea or nay?
You say Judas was saved because he was an apostle? Apostle does not equal to being saved.
Your basing your argument on the fact that Judas was hand picked by Jesus to be an apostle... being an apostle has absolutely nothing to do with being saved. You have no argument using Luke 6. Can you not see that?
Your basing your argument on the fact that Judas was hand picked by Jesus to be an apostle... being an apostle has absolutely nothing to do with being saved. You have no argument using Luke 6. Can you not see that?
There has never been salvation through anything but grace. Salvation by grace has been the one and only way for salvation from the beginning. Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, and ALL of the Old Testaments saints were saved the same way we are... through grace. And it will always be salvation through grace in the future.
It's not only the fact that Jesus called and elect Judas along the other eleven to be apostles of the Lamb. This is only one Scripture on Judas' involvement with Israel's Messiah, Jesus Christ, there are other passages of Scripture when rightly divided by having ones' doctrine in the right place will come to the conclusion I have.
But yes, one Scripture, even this one, does prove that Judas was saved. And I back it up with Ephesians 4:11
Ephesians 4:11 (KJV)
[SUP]11 [/SUP]And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers;
In order to be in the body of Christ, even an apostle, one MUST BE SAVED.
Unless you reject the Scripture that shows an apostle called of Christ and elected to that office is saved, that is.
But you're getting ahead of me.
This only part 1.
But yes, one Scripture, even this one, does prove that Judas was saved. And I back it up with Ephesians 4:11
Ephesians 4:11 (KJV)
[SUP]11 [/SUP]And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers;
In order to be in the body of Christ, even an apostle, one MUST BE SAVED.
Unless you reject the Scripture that shows an apostle called of Christ and elected to that office is saved, that is.
But you're getting ahead of me.
This only part 1.
OK. Good enough. You receive they were apostles called of Christ from a multitude and elect to that office.
Did I add anything erroneous to the understanding of what Jesus did in Luke 6:12-13.
Now, you do agree that at this time when Jesus walked the earth these are apostles of the lamb, right?
John 1:29 (KJV)
[SUP]29 [/SUP]The next day John seeth Jesus coming unto him, and saith, Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world.
Agreed?
Did I add anything erroneous to the understanding of what Jesus did in Luke 6:12-13.
Now, you do agree that at this time when Jesus walked the earth these are apostles of the lamb, right?
John 1:29 (KJV)
[SUP]29 [/SUP]The next day John seeth Jesus coming unto him, and saith, Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world.
Agreed?
You are trying to elevate the word apostle to mean something that it doesn't mean. An apostle is a messenger, that's it nothing more. There are TRUE apostles of Christ and there are FALSE apostles of Christ. Luke 6 does not distinguish between the two.
2Co 11:12 But what I do, that I will do, that I may cut off occasion from them which desire occasion; that wherein they glory, they may be found even as we.
2Co 11:13 For such are false apostles, deceitful workers, transforming themselves into the apostles of Christ.
How do we know the apostles above were false apostles? Because the bible adds the word FALSE. Once again, being an apostle does not in any way infer salvation; just messengers. I think that is pretty straight forward wouldn't you agree.
2Co 11:12 But what I do, that I will do, that I may cut off occasion from them which desire occasion; that wherein they glory, they may be found even as we.
2Co 11:13 For such are false apostles, deceitful workers, transforming themselves into the apostles of Christ.
How do we know the apostles above were false apostles? Because the bible adds the word FALSE. Once again, being an apostle does not in any way infer salvation; just messengers. I think that is pretty straight forward wouldn't you agree.