Why I now believe that salvation can be lost.

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
Dec 18, 2023
6,402
406
83
Thief on the cross: "wait Lord, not today, I still have to be baptised"
Thief on the cross: "wait Lord, not today, I still have to be baptised"
I've already answered this in many posts. Jesus went and preached to the thief in paradise 😊

Water baptism changed after the cross.

I'm sure that's simple to understand
 

GRACE_ambassador

Well-known member
Feb 22, 2021
3,222
1,618
113
Midwest

crossnote

Senior Member
Nov 24, 2012
30,743
3,671
113
I've already answered this in many posts. Jesus went and preached to the thief in paradise 😊

Water baptism changed after the cross.

I'm sure that's simple to understand
It may be simple to understand, but do you have Scripture proving that 'water baptism changed after the cross'? I don't believe something unless I see it plainly taught in Scripture, it's just that simple :)
 
Dec 18, 2023
6,402
406
83
Waiting...Oh yes I had added this...
"I don't believe something unless I see it plainly taught in Scripture, it's just that simple:) "
I will not keep you waiting for long 😊


Acts 19

New International Version



Paul in Ephesus
19 While Apollos was at Corinth, Paul took the road through the interior and arrived at Ephesus. There he found some disciples 2 and asked them, “Did you receive the Holy Spirit when[a] you believed?”
They answered, “No, we have not even heard that there is a Holy Spirit.”
3 So Paul asked, “Then what baptism did you receive?”
“John’s baptism,” they replied.
4 Paul said, “John’s baptism was a baptism of repentance. He told the people to believe in the one coming after him, that is, in Jesus.” 5 On hearing this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus. 6 When Paul placed his hands on them, the Holy Spirit came on them, and they spoke in tongues[b] and prophesied. 7 There were about twelve men in all.
 

crossnote

Senior Member
Nov 24, 2012
30,743
3,671
113
I will not keep you waiting for long 😊


Acts 19

New International Version



Paul in Ephesus
19 While Apollos was at Corinth, Paul took the road through the interior and arrived at Ephesus. There he found some disciples 2 and asked them, “Did you receive the Holy Spirit when[a] you believed?”
They answered, “No, we have not even heard that there is a Holy Spirit.”
3 So Paul asked, “Then what baptism did you receive?”
“John’s baptism,” they replied.
4 Paul said, “John’s baptism was a baptism of repentance. He told the people to believe in the one coming after him, that is, in Jesus.” 5 On hearing this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus. 6 When Paul placed his hands on them, the Holy Spirit came on them, and they spoke in tongues[b] and prophesied. 7 There were about twelve men in all.
Still is unclear why the thief went unbaptized. Also, does this mean one must speak in tongues in order to be saved? Again the thief didn't.
 
Dec 18, 2023
6,402
406
83
Still is unclear why the thief went unbaptized. Also, does this mean one must speak in tongues in order to be saved? Again the thief didn't.
The context of what the thief said on the cross is key.

Jesus said tonight you will join me in paradise. This was not heaven, Jesus was talking about, Jesus was talking about the Abrahams bosom, known as a place of paradise for the righteous Who had died in the old t, where Jesus went and preached, I believe it's the same place where the tomb stone was split open, and the saints who had believed in the ot where raised to life.

For all we those people may been baptised in water, we just don't know if Abrahams bosom was also a sea, revelation speaks about the sea giving up there dead. those people could have been sleeping, may have been resurrected in water too 😊 before they came out of the tomb stone through the sea
 

crossnote

Senior Member
Nov 24, 2012
30,743
3,671
113
The context of what the thief said on the cross is key.

Jesus said tonight you will join me in paradise. This was not heaven, Jesus was talking about, Jesus was talking about the Abrahams bosom, known as a place of paradise for the righteous Who had died in the old t, where Jesus went and preached, I believe it's the same place where the tomb stone was split open, and the saints who had believed in the ot where raised to life.

For all we those people may been baptised in water, we just don't know if Abrahams bosom was also a sea, revelation speaks about the sea giving up there dead. those people could have been sleeping, may have been resurrected in water too 😊 before they came out of the tomb stone through the sea
Thanks for your ’opinion’.
 

rogerg

Well-known member
Jul 13, 2021
3,698
579
113
Hello and thanks for your answer. However, I have MANY, MANY other Verses too. Here is another example.

"These men are hidden reefs [elements of great danger to others] in your love feasts when they feast together with you without fear, looking after [only] themselves; [they are like] clouds without water, swept along by the winds; autumn trees without fruit, doubly dead, uprooted and lifeless " Jude 12 AMP

If they died twice then it means they already had been born again.
No. They died the first spiritual death while in the loins of Adam along with Adam which is passed through Adam's seed, and those who remain unsaved will die the second death on judgement day. Due to Adam, everyone who comes into this world comes into it spiritually dead, and thereby, are there two spiritual deaths, but not because they were spiritually alive once in this world. For those whom God had chosen to save/ make born again, the following verses (amongst many others) show us that for them, there can be no possibility of losing salvation.

[1Pe 1:4-5 KJV]
4 To an inheritance incorruptible, and undefiled, and that fadeth not away, reserved in heaven for you,
5 Who are kept by the power of God through faith unto salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.

[Phl 1:6 KJV]
6 Being confident of this very thing, that he which hath begun a good work in you will perform [it] until the day of Jesus Christ:
 

NilsForChrist

Active member
Jan 31, 2023
183
86
28
No. They died the first spiritual death while in the loins of Adam along with Adam which is passed through Adam's seed, and those who remain unsaved will die the second death on judgement day. Due to Adam, everyone who comes into this world comes into it spiritually dead, and thereby, are there two spiritual deaths, but not because they were spiritually alive once in this world. For those whom God had chosen to save/ make born again, the following verses (amongst many others) show us that for them, there can be no possibility of losing salvation.

[1Pe 1:4-5 KJV]
4 To an inheritance incorruptible, and undefiled, and that fadeth not away, reserved in heaven for you,
5 Who are kept by the power of God through faith unto salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.

[Phl 1:6 KJV]
6 Being confident of this very thing, that he which hath begun a good work in you will perform [it] until the day of Jesus Christ:
Greetings.

Confidence doesn't equal guarantee. We are KEPT indeed IF we continue (Romans 2 & 11).
 

PaulThomson

Well-known member
Oct 29, 2023
3,488
458
83
So eternal life is not eternal life.

Thats good to know.

Gods promise that we will never die is not true

Again, Good to know

Gods promise that we will never hunger or thirst is not true

Again, good to know

Gods promise he WILl raise us on the last day is not true

His promise that we are sealed with the spirit UNTIL the day of redemption is not true

Its good to know All these things and other promised are not true, It would be so sad to have faith in God to keep his promises, only to later find out that non of those things are really true, and we will end up in hell anyway.
None of those truths/promises are denied, if a justified person can fall away and become lost.
 

Omegatime

Well-known member
Apr 29, 2023
1,162
432
83
Pennsylvania
25 “Then the kingdom of heaven shall be compared to ten maidens who took their lamps and went to meet the bridegroom ( Jesus ). If the foolish were there when they expected the Lord they would also been taken but became foolish.

Just as the scriptures say: One will be taken, one left

50%
 

NilsForChrist

Active member
Jan 31, 2023
183
86
28
So eternal life is not eternal life.

Thats good to know.

Gods promise that we will never die is not true

Again, Good to know

Gods promise that we will never hunger or thirst is not true

Again, good to know

Gods promise he WILl raise us on the last day is not true

His promise that we are sealed with the spirit UNTIL the day of redemption is not true

Its good to know All these things and other promised are not true, It would be so sad to have faith in God to keep his promises, only to later find out that non of those things are really true, and we will end up in hell anyway.
God's promises are true but NOT unconditional.

Regarding eternal life being eternal, it will always be eternal. A diamond is still a diamond even if we lose it. The diamond doesn't change but our possession of it can. It is the same with eternal life; it will always be eternal but our possession of it can change. If we don't abide in Jesus then we will be cut out of the Vine and burned (John 15:6) and personally lose our eternal life but those who continue in holiness will inherit it.
 

rogerg

Well-known member
Jul 13, 2021
3,698
579
113
Greetings.

Confidence doesn't equal guarantee. We are KEPT indeed IF we continue (Romans 2 & 11).
And we continue (are kept) only by God's will and His power not our own:

[1Pe 1:4-5 KJV]
4 To an inheritance incorruptible, and undefiled, and that fadeth not away, reserved in heaven for you,
5 Who are kept by the power of God through faith unto salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.
 

NilsForChrist

Active member
Jan 31, 2023
183
86
28
And we continue (are kept) only by God's will and His power not our own:

[1Pe 1:4-5 KJV]
4 To an inheritance incorruptible, and undefiled, and that fadeth not away, reserved in heaven for you,
5 Who are kept by the power of God through faith unto salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.
Of course by God's power, but it requires our part also.

Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling.
Philippians 2:12
 

Karlon

Well-known member
Mar 8, 2023
2,633
1,189
113
& so, the question prevails: "how can a born again Christian live his or her life never believing & knowing that you are eternally saved"? what a miserable, doubtful, faithless & non trusting life that is. what's the sense in becoming born again? read & learn 1st John 5:13- "these things have we written unto you that believe on the name on the Son of God, THAT YOU MAY KNOW YOU HAVE ETERNAL LIFE & that you may believe on the Son of God"!!!!
 

rogerg

Well-known member
Jul 13, 2021
3,698
579
113
Of course by God's power, but it requires our part also.

Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling.
Philippians 2:12
Should it require anything on our part, then it wouldn't be by God's power.

[Phl 2:13 KJV] 13 For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of [his] good pleasure.
 

Nehemiah6

Senior Member
Jul 18, 2017
26,074
13,777
113
& so, the question prevails: "how can a born again Christian live his or her life never believing & knowing that you are eternally saved"?
Those who claim that salvation can be lost really have no clue about salvation, or Gospel truth, or even the actual words of Christ, or His finished work of redemption.