Why is the end times so important?

[Lanolin]

Well Jesus said Lo I am with you always even to the end of the age.
I think the Bible talks a lot about end times because He wants us to be prepared for eternity...thats when time ends, right?

For each and every one of us has a fixed, limited time on earth, once we die, it will be judgment. The judgemnt can be either hell or rewards in heaven.

Its better we know this earlier rather than later, cos if left too late, we cant enter the kingdom. Like, we cant preach the gospel to anyone after they dead, cos they literally wont hear it!

 

[eternally-gratefull]

The y won't be "turning up".

See the sequence of events:

(Rev 14:8 A second angel followed the first, declaring: "Fallen, fallen is Babylon the great city! She made all the nations drink of the wine of her immoral passion."

Rev 14:13 Then I heard a voice from heaven say, "Write this: 'Blessed are the dead, those who die in the Lord from this moment on!'" "Yes," says the Spirit, "so they can rest from their hard work, because their deeds will follow them.)

The great city Babylon (Jerusalem of the 1st century) falls, the old covenant is wrapped as scroll (Rev 6), from that time on the dead those "who die in the Lord" go straight to their heavenly reward, no waiting in Hades.

What????????

1. Babylon is not jerusalem
2. Rev 14 is speaking of the of time called the great tribulation (jesus used that phrase) which would occure right before his future return

 

[azamzimtoti]

What????????

1. Babylon is not jerusalem

I disagree EG. The great city is named a Jerusalem in Rev 11:8. John gives no indication of changing the identity to some other city. There he calls them Sodom and Egypt, Babylon is just a further reference as to the city's state.

Have read here EG:

https://americanvision.org/3880/jerusalem-mother-of-harlots/

 

[eternally-gratefull]

I disagree EG. The great city is named a Jerusalem in Rev 11:8. John gives no indication of changing the identity to some other city. There he calls them Sodom and Egypt, Babylon is just a further reference as to the city's state.

That is not babylon my friend.

Have read here EG:

https://americanvision.org/3880/jerusalem-mother-of-harlots/

Babylon is the mother of harlots. When babylon was destroyed. The mother and her harlotry spread to other nations, and became known under different names.

It is not jerusalem, I have studied this for many years.. Jerusalem was never called the harlot. She was judged for playing with the harlot.

A harlot is a false bride, Jerusalem has never been the false bride.
.

 

[FollowHisSteps]

Nearly every book (and maybe every book) in the bible seems to touch upon the end times.
These data, however, were mostly not meant for people in prior generations to comprehend.
Even Daniel was told that the events shown him regarding the end times were sealed until the end times, at which time they would then be unsealed, with their understanding increasing among the faithful.
So why does the Lord feel it so important that we, who are supposedly the final generation, should increase in our understanding about the end times?

Daniel 12:4 But thou, O Daniel, shut up the words, and seal the book, even to the time of the end: many shall run to and fro, and knowledge shall be increased.

9 And he said, Go thy way, Daniel: for the words are closed up and sealed till the time of the end.

The end times seem important because they tell us about the great reconning.
And it is important to know how things will resolve and that in the world the truth of love
and reconciliation will not dominate and the world will turn away from the things of God.

What is unfortunate is people who desire to see in things around them the exact prophesies
being fulfilled rather than focusing on how we work in the Lord and encourage one another.

What makes the news is constantly people with the right interpretation that this is finally it,
the blood moon, the anti-christ, the final tumult is happening, when rather than a rapture
believers are being killed by nut case muslims or some other crazy group who are mad on
money and corruption and drugs.

 

[azamzimtoti]

Ezekiel 16:27-30

(Behold, therefore, I stretched out My hand against you, diminished your allotment, and gave you up to the will of those who hate you, the daughters of the Philistines, who were ashamed of your lewd behavior. You also played the harlot with the Assyrians, because you were insatiable; indeed you played the harlot with them and still were not satisfied. Moreover you multiplied your acts of harlotry as far as the land of the trader, Chaldea; and even then you were not satisfied. How degenerate is you heart!" says the Lord GOD, "seeing you do all these things, the deeds of a brazen harlot.")

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Ezekiel 16:27-30

(Behold, therefore, I stretched out My hand against you, diminished your allotment, and gave you up to the will of those who hate you, the daughters of the Philistines, who were ashamed of your lewd behavior. You also played the harlot with the Assyrians, because you were insatiable; indeed you played the harlot with them and still were not satisfied. Moreover you multiplied your acts of harlotry as far as the land of the trader, Chaldea; and even then you were not satisfied. How degenerate is you heart!" says the Lord GOD, "seeing you do all these things, the deeds of a brazen harlot.")

The assyrians were the harlot. Jerusalem (who was betrothed to God) played the harlot with THEIR GODS who were the prostitutes.

They were babylon. Their gods were Babylonian Gods, Not jerusalem

It would be like me going to get a prostitute and have relations with her. I played the harlot with that prostitute. But SHE was the prostitute. Not me.

 

[azamzimtoti]

The end times seem important because they tell us about the great reconning.

What's a reconning?

 

[azamzimtoti]

They were babylon. Their gods were Babylonian Gods, Not jerusalem

Regardless over whether she played the harlot you are defending the city that killed the Lord Jesus, upon whom he pronounced judgment.

Matt 23:37 (“Jerusalem, Jerusalem, who kills the prophets and stones those who are sent to her! How often I wanted to gather your children together, the way a hen gathers her chicks under her wings, and you were unwilling.)

After the destruction of the whore (who I am stating is Jerusalem) we see the pronouncement:

Rev 19:2 (BECAUSE HIS JUDGMENTS ARE TRUE AND RIGHTEOUS; for He has judged the great harlot who was corrupting the earth with her immorality, and HE HAS AVENGED THE BLOOD OF HIS BOND-SERVANTS ON HER.”)

 

[Lanolin]

The assyrians were the harlot. Jerusalem (who was betrothed to God) played the harlot with THEIR GODS who were the prostitutes.

They were babylon. Their gods were Babylonian Gods, Not jerusalem

It would be like me going to get a prostitute and have relations with her. I played the harlot with that prostitute. But SHE was the prostitute. Not me.

Hold on..do you know what you saying. Played the harlot means acting like a prositiute. It doenst mean procuring a prostitute.
The assyrians werent the harlot, it would have been Jerusalem selling herself to the other gods.

What you are talking about by having relations would be fornicating.

I think you are getting a tad mixed up here. Also remember the story of Hosea and Gomer. Did Hosea play the harlot? No it was Gomer who played the harlot.

 

[azamzimtoti]

It would be like me going to get a prostitute and have relations with her. I played the harlot with that prostitute. But SHE was the prostitute. Not me.

All right then John

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Regardless over whether she played the harlot you are defending the city that killed the Lord Jesus, upon whom he pronounced judgment.

Matt 23:37 (“Jerusalem, Jerusalem, who kills the prophets and stones those who are sent to her! How often I wanted to gather your children together, the way a hen gathers her chicks under her wings, and you were unwilling.)

After the destruction of the whore (who I am stating is Jerusalem) we see the pronouncement:

Rev 19:2 (BECAUSE HIS JUDGMENTS ARE TRUE AND RIGHTEOUS; for He has judged the great harlot who was corrupting the earth with her immorality, and HE HAS AVENGED THE BLOOD OF HIS BOND-SERVANTS ON HER.”)

This makes no sense,

Jesus returns to RULE Jerusalem. If he destroys her so she is no more there is no jerusalem to rule.

He destroys the harlot SYSTEM. Not a city.. (PS. Jerusalem was layed to ruins in 70 ad in fulfillment of Lev 26 as she was also layed desolate by Babylon hereself. In Daniels time

It makes no sense, since after 70 AD. Jerusalem has been left desolate till this day (ie dome of the rock)

.

 

[azamzimtoti]

He destroys the harlot SYSTEM. Not a city.. (PS. Jerusalem was layed to ruins in 70 ad in fulfillment of Lev 26 as she was also layed desolate by Babylon hereself. In Daniels time.

Revelation is about the great city and the whore, the two are linked, there is no "harlot system" as such, yes John does say the "mother of".

Rev 17:6 (I saw that the woman was drunk with the blood of the saints and the blood of those who testified to Jesus. I was greatly astounded when I saw her.)

The woman is identified with a city and a people/generation.

Matt 23:34 -35 ("For this reason I am sending you prophets and wise men and experts in the law, some of whom you will kill and crucify, and some you will flog in your synagogues and pursue from town to town

so that on you will come all the righteous blood shed on earth, from the blood of righteous Abel to the blood of Zechariah son of Barachiah, whom you murdered between the temple and the altar.)

 

[delirious]

I am not convinced. I still believe in a second coming although I do agree that AD70 was an important event as far as the OT age
is concerned. I believe the rapture and resurrection happens at or shortly after the seventh trumpet. I believe that the last judgement happens when Christ returns. I don't believe in a literal Millennium but that the new heaven and earth comes into being
after that. I also find it difficult to believe that the church with its many famous and devout members have all have been mistaken
over this vital doctrine for 2000 years. To me its just as unbelievable as the Pre Trib futurist claim that runs on the same lines but with different conclusions

Obviously you are going to choose to believe what you want, like all humans do, but I have to say you are being inconsistent.

To say that the seventh trumpet, resurrection and judgment and new heavens and earth are still future is to directly contradict Scripture. Revelation says the things in the book would happen shortly. Jesus Himself says the resurrection and judgment and new heavens and earth would happen at the end of His generation. It is in many places. Not just one or two texts.

Because most Christians have looked for a physical fulfillment, that Scripture denies, you are going to throw your lot in with them. That is up to you. Tradition is very powerful in the hearts of men. Many people will not leave the comfort and safety of it.

It is easy to see why most Christians have missed this for 2,000 years. Like Nicodemus and the woman at the well, humans think physically and look for physical fulfillments when Jesus and the Scripture is talking about spiritual fulfillments and realities.

 

[TheDivineWatermark]

Revelation 17:1,9,15 [blb] -

1 And one of the seven angels having the seven bowls came and spoke with me, saying, “Come here, I will show you the punishment of the great prostitute, the one sitting upon many waters

9 Here is the mind having wisdom: The seven heads are seven mountains, where the woman sits on them;

15 And he says to me, “The waters that you saw where the prostitute sits are peoples and multitudes and nations and tongues.

 

[delirious]

"1 Thess 4: 13-18 is referring to that moment when we “meet Christ in the air and so shall we ever be with the Lord”. It is not a physical rapture. It is a crossing over spiritually. "
Not hardly.
You literally made that up.

I didn't make anything up but because you insist on a physical fulfillment for this text you don't understand it. It is referring to death being swallowed up by life. The coming of Christ's kingdom, the new heavens and earth, when all the departed saints were able to enter heaven. It is a spiritual fulfillment. We are raised a spiritual body not a physical/natural one like 1 cor 15 says.

 

[TheDivineWatermark]

[…] are "caught up [G726 - harpagēsometha ] together [G260 - hama - "at once"] WITH [G4862 - syn - (denoting "UNION"/"IDENTIFICATION" with)] them" [that is, the living/remaining caught up at once WITH the dead in Christ" (who shall "rise first")], […]

I should add here, that this ^ is completely distinct from how Matthew 24:29-31(re: "GREAT trumpet")/Isaiah 27:12-13 states that Israel [believing/faithful remnant] will be "gathered ONE BY ONE" (AFTER/at END of trib, and by angels He "shall SEND" to do so, and "TO worship the Lord in the holy mount AT JERUSALEM")--in every way distinct.

 

[azamzimtoti]

When John speaks of the "new heavens and earth" the assumption is that the whole of creation has been destroyed.

In actual fact the "new" John uses in Greek (kainos) is "new (especially in freshness)" not in a brand new thing which does not mean a galactic destruction. It relates to Peter's statement in Acts 3:21 "restitution of all things".

John is speaking symbolically, the old heavens and earth/covenant passed away (read Heb 8:13 where it is stated it was "growing obsolete and aging and is about to disappear. )

Now if the old was growing obsolete, then this means that the "smallest letter or stroke of a letter" was about to disappear along with the then "heaven and earth".

(Matt 5:18 I tell you the truth, until heaven and earth pass away not the smallest letter or stroke of a letter will pass from the law until everything takes place.)

 

[TheDivineWatermark]

We are raised a spiritual body not a physical/natural one like 1 cor 15 says.

You don't believe that our bodies will be "changed" to be like His glorious body?? Philippians 3:20-21 "20 For our citizenship exists in the heavens, from whence also we are awaiting a Savior, the Lord Jesus Christ, 21 who will transform our body of humiliation, conformed to the body of His glory, according to the working enabling Him even to subdue all things to Himself."


...Who also had said, "38 And He said to them, “Why are you troubled, and why do doubts come up in your hearts? 39 See My hands and My feet, that I am He. Touch Me and see, for a spirit does not have flesh and bones, as you see Me having.” 40 And having said this, He showed to them the hands and the feet.

41 And while they still were disbelieving for joy and were wondering, He said to them, “Have you anything here to eat?”

[Lk24, in response to their "thinking themselves to see a spirit." v.37]

 

[delirious]

How are you suggesting the living/remaining [unto the coming of the Lord] are "caught up [G726 - harpagēsometha ] together [G260 - hama - "at once"] WITH [G4862 - syn - (denoting "UNION"/"IDENTIFICATION" with)] them" [that is, the living/remaining caught up at once WITH the dead in Christ"

You are thinking physically. Very natural for humans to do. Still it is completely wrong. It is spiritual.

and why do you think they had to wait clear till 70ad (for that, spiritually) when the Spirit through Paul's pen says in Ephesians (and Colossians) that the "spiritual" aspects (if you want to label it that) occurred when Jesus Himself ascended, well-before 70ad (and I believe well before the "40 days later" visible ascension in Acts 1, even).

There was 40 years from Christ's resurrection to His return. 30 to 70 A.D. roughly. This is the second exodus. We don't know the exact year He was crucified but most likely 30 or 31 A.D.

Moses led the first exodus. It was out of bondage in Egypt. It was a primarily a physical deliverance from the oppression of the Egyptians.

Jesus led the second exodus. It was out of the separation from God that are sins had caused. This is obviously a spiritual deliverance.

Paul compares the Corinthians he is writing too in 1 Cor 10 to Moses' exodus generation. They were both exodus generations.

The writer of Hebrews does the same thing. Hebrews 1 & 2 compare Moses and Jesus. Why? They were both leading an exodus. Then Hebrews 3 & 4 tell those Christians not to be like the wilderness generation. The Hebrew writer is making direct comparisons to the generation just like Paul did. They were both exodus generations. Special generations in history.

The first exodus generation led by Moses was baptized in the Red Sea, spent 40 years wandering in the wilderness, and entered the promised land. Physical deliverance.

The second exodus generation led by Jesus was baptized when they became believers, spent 40 years preaching the gospel during the Apostolic generation, and entered the new heavens and earth. Spiritual deliverance.

This type/anti-type is all over Scripture. The natural/physical comes first. Then the spiritual. Read 1 Cor 15: 46-50.