Why Joseph Prince is a Cancerous Growth within God's People

[Depleted]

If He is grace and forgiveness, why didn't he forgive the fallen angels?
He acts graciously toward mankind because He chose to on account of Christ, he didn't have to. He could have moved in justice as He did with the angels that sinned.

...and, since God cannot/will not go against who he is then surely he would have had to forgive everyone -- fallen angels and everyone.

Now, that would be worthy of the word "hyper." "Hyper-universalism."

 

[eternally-gratefull]

...and, since God cannot/will not go against who he is then surely he would have had to forgive everyone -- fallen angels and everyone.

Now, that would be worthy of the word "hyper." "Hyper-universalism."

Nope. more false accusations from a person who will not listen to what people have to say.

Because God is perfect justice too. And his grace, love mercy can not over rule his justice,

Grace can be perfect, yet not be able to over rule Gods justice, Gods justice demands a penalty for sin, God grace found a way. through Gods love (no greater love)

If it could Jesus would never have had to come and die.

 

[Willie-T]

Yep, so many people afraid not to be afraid....

 

[Willie-T]

...and, since God cannot/will not go against who he is then surely he would have had to forgive everyone -- fallen angels and everyone.

Now, that would be worthy of the word "hyper." "Hyper-universalism."

One very basic and simple thing you overlook with that attempted rebuttal.... Angels are not humans like us.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

One very basic and simple thing you overlook with that attempted rebuttal.... Angels are not humans like us.

Even if they were, Can God's PERFECT grace over rule his PERFECT justice? so he could forgive Angels?? or even Humans who reject him?

 

[Depleted]

And a covenant build upon better promises and of then blood of Jesus that speaks of better things.

Here is a whole thread about all this if you want to see the differences between forgiveness in the Old Covenant vs the New Covenant. There has been a change! We have a great salvation inn our Lord!

http://christianchat.com/bible-disc...ion-confession-1-john-1-9-sin-confession.html

The commonality between OT and NT is both are God's covenants/promises/word/will-and-testament. The difference is the two partners in the contract. OT was God and Man. NT was Jehovah and Son. SAME PROMISES. Delivered this time, because God did the doing. So don't go dispensationalism on me too.

 

[crossnote]

It's ok with me if you want to try to separate the wet from the water....and Jesus from grace..but I'll stick to what the scriptures say to me.

We can agree to disagree too!....

Yes, we can agree to disagree, but let's also agree not to put words in the other's mouth. I never said Jesus is separate from grace, that is what the Incarnation was all about. Please quit misrepresenting the other person and what they say in order to make your point. Just make your point.

 

[Grace777x70]

Yes, we can agree to disagree, but let's also agree not to put words in the other's mouth. I never said Jesus is separate from grace, that is what the Incarnation was all about. Please quit misrepresenting the other person and what they say in order to make your point. Just make your point.

I was responding to your response to me in this post I made below. You were saying that love is not God. I was stating that God is love and therefore agape love which is His love only - this cannot be separated from Him. That is the separation I was referring to and I maintain the same thing for grace - there is no grace apart from God.

Originally Posted by Grace777x70

Agape love is God in manifestation. There are different kinds of love. If we think of human love - we'll get mixed up in our understanding of truths about the nature and heart and essence of our Lord.

You can't separate grace from Jesus just like you can't separate the wet from water anymore then we can separate love or truth from Jesus.

Unquote

Here is the link below is where you said that grace is not God. EG says that " God is not grace??? What??"..and then your answer is below. " If God is grace and forgiveness..."...That looks like you were saying God is not grace.

http://christianchat.com/bible-disc...growth-within-gods-people-19.html#post2650214

I don't see where I misrepresented what you said as you did seem to say that grace was not God but if you think I did and if you didn't mean that in the post - Then I apologize.

 

[crossnote]

Why does he not forgive those who reject him?

Trying to put fallen angels in the same category as fallen man is not applicable. Man has not seen and Known God as they did.. They have seen God as he is, we have not..


Did not have to. thanks, Thats grace, God did not have to but he did anyway, Not because we earned it, but because he loved.

God is the pure example of grace and love and mercy. There will never be another fall after this world is destroyed, because of this very reason..

Again, if God is all grace, why did He not forgive the angels? Adam had communion with God before he fell e.g. Gen 2:23.
His 'all grace' should have forgiven the angels even if they had seen Him. We forgive those who have been close to us and see us.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Again, if God is all grace, why did He not forgive the angels? Adam had communion with God before he fell e.g. Gen 2:23.
His 'all grace' should have forgiven the angels even if they had seen Him. We forgive those who have been close to us and see us.

Again, Grace can not over rule Justice.

Adam walked with God. But I doubt adam saw God how he was.. A vision no man has seen..

Adam was limited in his finite view. Angels were not. they saw a picture of God. of heaven, of everything no man has seen.

 

[crossnote]

I was responding to your response to me in this post I made below. You were saying that love is not God. I was stating that God is love and therefore agape love which is His love only - this cannot be separated from Him. That is the separation I was referring to and I maintain the same thing for grace - there is no grace apart from God.

Originally Posted by Grace777x70

Agape love is God in manifestation. There are different kinds of love. If we think of human love - we'll get mixed up in our understanding of truths about the nature and heart and essence of our Lord.

You can't separate grace from Jesus just like you can't separate the wet from water anymore then we can separate love or truth from Jesus.

Unquote

Here is the link below is where you said that grace is not God. EG says that " God is not grace??? What??"..and then your answer is below. " If God is grace and forgiveness..."...That looks like you were saying God is not grace.

http://christianchat.com/bible-disc...growth-within-gods-people-19.html#post2650214

I don't see where I misrepresented what you said as you did seem to say that grace was not God but if you think I did and if you didn't mean that in the post - Then I apologize.

God is love. Love is not God. There is no grace apart from Jesus who came with the mission to rescue us and reconcile us to God.
If the 2nd Person of the Trinity had not come and atoned for our sins, there would be no grace towards mankind. The essence of God is love, not grace. God only acts towards sinful mankind graciously on account of Christ.
When you speak of Jesus, technically you are speaking of God's love taking on human flesh to satisfy God's justice apart from which there is no grace.
Please don't give me a lesson on God's Love, I've been a Christian 42 years and know enough that down syndrome children give a truer reflection of God's love than eggy theologians.

 

[ladylynn]

I guess David didn't get the memo.

David also prayed that God would not take His Holy Spirit from him. We are under a different covenant and we don't have to pray some of the things David prayed. "create in me a clean heart oh God." we were given a new heart at salvation we don't have to pray for a clean or a new heart. We already have it.

The Holy Spirit is in us as a seal. David did see by the revelation of the Holy Spirit what it would be like for us under this new covenant.

I've read your posts crossnote.

 

[crossnote]

David also prayed that God would not take His Holy Spirit from him. We are under a different covenant and we don't have to pray some of the things David prayed. "create in me a clean heart oh God." we were given a new heart at salvation we don't have to pray for a clean or a new heart. We already have it.

The Holy Spirit is in us as a seal. David did see by the revelation of the Holy Spirit what it would be like for us under this new covenant.

I've read your posts crossnote.

Sounds like the pathway to 'perfectionism'. True, we have been given a new heart but there remains the flesh/old man so that...

But I say, walk by the Spirit, and you will not gratify the desires of the flesh. For the desires of the flesh are against the Spirit, and the desires of the Spirit are against the flesh, for these are opposed to each other, to keep you from doing the things you want to do.
(Gal 5:16-17)

Unless one has reached that 24/7 of walking in the spirit (perfection) I'd suggest a little confession and seeking forgiveness to grow in your relationship with God. At least that's me, and if I recall, David was a man after God's heart...not perfect.

 

[ladylynn]

This is like saying, "I married my husband for his wallet, his blue eyes, his easy laugh, and yet I did not marry him for his lack of furniture, his quick wit, his determination, or his flash of anger."

Marriage isn't about taking part of who the person is and ignoring the rest. It isn't about what I can get out of the deal. I am NOT the center of my marriage!

And if you think that's unrelated, Jesus is the groom and the church is the bride.

Maybe your problem is you don't think you're human like the rest of us poor schmoes.

I think the difference is I believe Jesus loves me and am learning to always believe that truth regardless of the outward circumstances of life. That He has shown me time and time again how much He loves me and has taken care of me. So much so now that I believe Him.

So when bad things happen that I don't understand Jesus has brought me out and will bring me out. I have not seen the righteous forsaken and I'm trusting in the promises. I think I'm a joyful recipient of the grace and favor of God in Christ. If you are a "poor schmoe" like you wrote here, you don't have to be. God doesn't love me any more than He loves you. His grace is for all of us.

 

[Angela53510]

Ah, thanks. I do have linguistics in my background and knew capping words has nothing to do with linguistics. I'm not a polyglot though. (I'm a monoglot.) So I thought she might have been talking about another language and that's how linguistics comes into play in other languages somehow. Now I know. That's not it either. Two excuses to cap the name of a god.

Not in English for sure! Or any Romance language, which is what she said she was fluent in. Now German is a different matter - all nouns have capitals. But most people don't know that, do they?

I am really shocked to realize how many people here are deifying grace. Instead of God! Has this been going on a long time, and I didn't realize - or did it just start?!

I'm not too on the ball these days, between RA and surgery!

 

[Grace777x70]

Not in English for sure! Or any Romance language, which is what she said she was fluent in. Now German is a different matter - all nouns have capitals. But most people don't know that, do they?

I am really shocked to realize how many people here are deifying grace. Instead of God! Has this been going on a long time, and I didn't realize - or did it just start?!

I'm not too on the ball these days, between RA and surgery!

I certainly didn't know that German nouns have all capitals. I wonder why they do that?

I don't see anyone deifying grace and making it a 4th part of the Trinity...it looks like to me people are just saying that grace is the personification of Jesus Himself - well that's what I say , so I shouldn't speak for the others. The gospel is Jesus and grace is Jesus same as Jesus is the Truth.

Here are the scriptures where I get this from, ( they are in this post )

http://christianchat.com/bible-disc...growth-within-gods-people-18.html#post2650015

 

[Depleted]

Lynn, you can't join two different things, simply because a statement about them is true, and claim they are the same.

That's like saying:

Satan = is alive

God = is alive

God and Satan = are one

Well maybe it is and maybe it isn't. I was never good enough at math to figure out what "= is" means to judge it.

I am just good enough with English to point out the difference with one word though. "Alive." Alive is an adjective. Grace, God, truth, and the way I used a whole sentence as one thing are all nouns. So, there you go. Mathematically, I have no idea if you're right or wrong, but grammatically? Missed it by a mile.

This might be why you and I cannot debate. We keep speaking in different languages.

 

[Depleted]

Nope....sorry.....Your first premise is throwing your logic thing off. (The sun is a star = truth ) Everything starts and ends with Jesus. In everything He is the preeminence.

LOL I have to ask. Do you consider your left shoe "in Jesus," since everything beginnings and ends with him?

Strangely, it's not a trick question, but I just tripped you up anyway. If you say Yes, (which I would too), then sure enough, "The sun is a star" really does begin and end in Jesus.

If you say No, then you're going to have a hard time explaining to me why your left shoe and truth don't begin and end with Jesus. And then we get right back to Grace isn't Jesus. It is an attribute of Jesus, thus stop saying an attribute IS God. Because same flaw you had with truth. It either begins and ends with him or it IS him, and it ain't him. Neither is truth nor your left shoe.

(I had to learn something to get that Communications degree. I've been learning more since. Guess who gets into Logic and Semantics.)

 

[Depleted]

I have left the posts filled with scriptures about grace and Jesus so I'm done with my part and everyone is allowed to believe what they want in this area.

Ok now though it looks like it's time to obey this scripture below as it is becoming useless and unprofitable....have a great day everyone!

2 Timothy 2:23 (KJV)
[SUP]23 [/SUP] But foolish and unlearned questions avoid, knowing that they do gender strifes.

Important distinction in that verse -- knowing who is the foolish and unlearned. After all, you're still trying to convince us Jesus is Grace.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Important distinction in that verse -- knowing who is the foolish and unlearned. After all, you're still trying to convince us Jesus is Grace.

He is not Grace?

Then no one has any hope of salvation. We must all work to earn it.. Good luck with that.