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B
I am reading this to say... As so many have agreed on other topics; We are saved in the New Covenant.... our salvation includes a benefits package... it is up to the "user" to appropriate these benefits. I agree, God is never wrong and he does no lie... if there is a point of conflict for me...I recognize the conflict is mine. This is the principal of "progressive Revelation" that I understand... there is nothing new or added to the scripture... rather my understanding and knowledge becomes more full.
Further... isn't it an ASSUMPTION that PAul had an illness? Doesn't the scripture say a "thorn in the Flesh" that "buffeted" him? Doesn't that come across as an EXTERNAL problem... a constant pricking... a merciless harping... a nagging problem... that he begged God to take away?
Further... isn't it an ASSUMPTION that PAul had an illness? Doesn't the scripture say a "thorn in the Flesh" that "buffeted" him? Doesn't that come across as an EXTERNAL problem... a constant pricking... a merciless harping... a nagging problem... that he begged God to take away?
B
EG- I did not appreciate your implication of "getting medical help" and your closing statement is inappropriate...shame on you.
Everybody else-While you are all warring at LesJude, you seem to have forgotten that at least one person claims that God healed them... and there are testimonies of healing everywhere. The thing is most of you will dismiss them as "unprovable" that the person claiming the healing is mistaken of seeking attention blah blah blah what ever your excuse is.
My God is the same yesterday, today and tomorrow... He never changes... Hebrews 13 comes to mind.
Everybody else-While you are all warring at LesJude, you seem to have forgotten that at least one person claims that God healed them... and there are testimonies of healing everywhere. The thing is most of you will dismiss them as "unprovable" that the person claiming the healing is mistaken of seeking attention blah blah blah what ever your excuse is.
My God is the same yesterday, today and tomorrow... He never changes... Hebrews 13 comes to mind.
Remember the account of Shadrach, Meshach, and Abed-nego in the book of Daniel chapter 3? The king is going to throw them into the fiery furnace, and the 3 answered the king in verses 17-18, "17 If it be so, our God whom we serve is able to deliver us from the furnace of blazing fire; and He will deliver us out of your hand, O king. 18But even if He does not, let it be known to you, O king, that we are not going to serve your gods or worship the golden image that you have set up.”
These 3 men recognized that God may not deliver them. Whether or not God delivers us from sickness or persecution is up to God, because it is God who does things according to His purpose, not ours. Also look at the account in John 9 regarding the blind man and the disciples asked who caused this man to be blind? His response was in verse 3 ""Jesus answered, “It was neither that this man sinned, nor his parents; but it was so that the works of God might be displayed in him., " How bold and un-humble some of us can be to think we are in control of our own healing or destiny, that we can persuaded God to heal us physically by keeping His laws and commandments, are you sinless? Even having one lousy thought in you head is just as bad as committing the worst sin. God will have His way with you, not the other way around.
These 3 men recognized that God may not deliver them. Whether or not God delivers us from sickness or persecution is up to God, because it is God who does things according to His purpose, not ours. Also look at the account in John 9 regarding the blind man and the disciples asked who caused this man to be blind? His response was in verse 3 ""Jesus answered, “It was neither that this man sinned, nor his parents; but it was so that the works of God might be displayed in him., " How bold and un-humble some of us can be to think we are in control of our own healing or destiny, that we can persuaded God to heal us physically by keeping His laws and commandments, are you sinless? Even having one lousy thought in you head is just as bad as committing the worst sin. God will have His way with you, not the other way around.
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L
Yes, his spirit has a refuge with Christ which is NOT the physical body.That is dead and in the grave. Physical healing is not necessary in heaven, only on earth and that is where it is promised. Psalm 103:1-5, James 5:14-15, Exodus 15:26, Exodus 23:25. Please explain what is not clear to you about God's willingness to heal in these scriptures.
L
No, it is not our sinless performance but simple obedience that God gives us the GRACE to walk in and the faith to use to come to Him KNOWING He is totally faithful to do as He promises for His children. The point Jesus is making to His disciples is sometimes sin is not the issue. They were aware that sin caused sickness which is why they asked Jesus the question.
You will notice it was not the sickness that glorified God but the healing. The only ones angry about healing glorifying God and His total will to do it were the religious crowd. Nothing has changed.
Please read John 9:13-34. It is one of the most humorous parts of the Bible. Ya just can't make up dialog like that!
You will notice it was not the sickness that glorified God but the healing. The only ones angry about healing glorifying God and His total will to do it were the religious crowd. Nothing has changed.
Please read John 9:13-34. It is one of the most humorous parts of the Bible. Ya just can't make up dialog like that!
I never said God can not heal, just that is God's Prerogative, not ours. And yes, went we accept Christ there a spiritual healing and a sense of physical too. For if we obey Him, we will live a life that promotes health and life, not destruction (excessive drinking and smoking, drugs, not resting or bodies, etc. etc. In which I think Psalms 103 is communicating. But the verse you gave I believe you take out of context. Especially James 5, seems like the context is dealing with those who of good cheer and those who are suffering some kind of trial, sufferings, persecutions maybe.I believe most of what James is telling us is to seek the Lord for our healing, yes perhaps physically but mostly spiritually and the only healing that is assured is that our sins will be forgiven if confessed.
The passages in Exodus have to deal with obedience to God in order to receive His blessings. And in by doing so, God will not intervene with same harsh punishment that He inflicted upon Egypt, to say that God meant this to mean that nobody would get sick and die is a stretch.
The passages in Exodus have to deal with obedience to God in order to receive His blessings. And in by doing so, God will not intervene with same harsh punishment that He inflicted upon Egypt, to say that God meant this to mean that nobody would get sick and die is a stretch.
L
Please read the OP again. There are numerous reasons I have given besides that one.
What you are saying is that it is dangerous to trust the living God alone who cannot lie to do what He promises in His word. This is blasphemy and quite dangerous. You cannot even claim ignorance as an excuse.
You have not answered me as to the scripture that shows God would send His son's bride to the 3rd leading cause of death in the US to be stripped naked, drugged, and cut up by the unregenerate. They directly cause over 300,000 deaths each year every year and that does not count the maimed and drug induced disease euphemistically called "side effects". You are telling me that trusting God is dangerous. Really!
I will say that people go to the physician they live closest to and that will not change. Medical mind control is as powerful a demon as nationalism. Both get about the same amount of blood sacrifices if one counts the abortions which the stat I gave above does not.
What you are saying is that it is dangerous to trust the living God alone who cannot lie to do what He promises in His word. This is blasphemy and quite dangerous. You cannot even claim ignorance as an excuse.
You have not answered me as to the scripture that shows God would send His son's bride to the 3rd leading cause of death in the US to be stripped naked, drugged, and cut up by the unregenerate. They directly cause over 300,000 deaths each year every year and that does not count the maimed and drug induced disease euphemistically called "side effects". You are telling me that trusting God is dangerous. Really!
I will say that people go to the physician they live closest to and that will not change. Medical mind control is as powerful a demon as nationalism. Both get about the same amount of blood sacrifices if one counts the abortions which the stat I gave above does not.
L
It does NOT say no one would get sick and eventually die. It says God will heal their sicknesses until they did die. Moses and Aaron did not die sick!
You have no idea what you are talking about. God is revealed by one of his redemptive names physician/healer
Yahweh Rapha. Jesus demonstrated that name all through His ministry and has not changed.
You have no idea what you are talking about. God is revealed by one of his redemptive names physician/healer
Yahweh Rapha. Jesus demonstrated that name all through His ministry and has not changed.
A social media question via Facebook from Frieda recently got my attention. She wrote, “How do you answer people when they tell you, you are lacking faith? My brother is a paraplegic since he was three years old and has prayed all his life to walk. He knows he will walk one day with the Lord but people in the church feel it necessary to comment to him that he doesn’t have enough faith. It has caused him at times to question God on why he cannot get his healing but he does understand that God uses him because of his disability. So what should his answer be to these people?” So imagine this scene. You have a paraplegic in the church, and people are telling the paraplegic he doesn’t have enough faith because if he had enough faith he wouldn’t be a paraplegic.
If you look at the reasoning that is used, you hear the echoes of the prosperity teachers. You hear T.D. Jakes saying, “The devil is a liar. Healing is the children’s bread. It’s promised to us in the word of God…God can do things that medicine cannot do.”[1] So if God has promised us healing and someone is still a paraplegic it means that you don’t have faith in their view.
This of course begs the question: What is faith? Faith teachers have a ready answer for you. They look at Hebrews 11:1 and they say faith is a force, words are the containers of the force, and through the force of faith you create your own reality. So if you learn to access the proper vocabulary, use the right words, you’re not going to be a paraplegic because Hebrew 11:1 says that “faith is the substance of things hoped for and the evidence of things not seen.” So—say the Faith teachers—you have right it there, faith is the substance—the stuff—and words the containers of the stuff.
Of course that’s not what Hebrew 11:1 really has in mind. A proper reading of Hebrew 11:1 in context demonstrates that faith is the assurance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen. Which is to say; true biblical faith is not stuff contained in your words. It’s not a substance, a tangible reality. It’s living assurance, a channel of living trust between an individual and their God.
Faith is only as good, therefore, as the object in whom it is placed. We place our faith in God and we say with Job, “though He slay me, yet will I trust in Him” (13:15). The reason for that is that God has given us enough evidence to trust in Him despite the difficulties of life. He had demonstrated to us that in this life we are going to have trouble because we live in a fallen world. So if you’re a paraplegic, it’s not because you don’t have enough faith. It’s because you live in a fallen world. We are called in this fallen world to put our trust in God and ultimately that trust in God is going to eventuate in a new heaven and new earth in which there will be no more paraplegics. Like Joni Eareckson Tada has said, “They will pole vault the pearly gates,”[2] because then the old order of things will pass away, and everything will become new.
In the meantime, do not follow the Faith teachers or swallow their formulas, they are dead ends and deceptions. The last thing you want to tell a paraplegic is that he doesn’t have enough faith. Some of the greatest faith bearers and exemplars of faith that I have met in my life are blind people. Joni Eareckson Tada, a quadriplegic, is my hero of faith and she taught me the true meaning of faith. Through the overflow of a life spent in a wheelchair, she has blessed the lives through her faithful service of literally millions of people around the globe. So encourage those that are hurting that they will one day walk with the Lord and have pity for people in the church who find it necessary to tell people that they don’t have enough faith. - Hank Hanegraaff
If You Are not Healed, Do You Lack Faith? | CRI
If you look at the reasoning that is used, you hear the echoes of the prosperity teachers. You hear T.D. Jakes saying, “The devil is a liar. Healing is the children’s bread. It’s promised to us in the word of God…God can do things that medicine cannot do.”[1] So if God has promised us healing and someone is still a paraplegic it means that you don’t have faith in their view.
This of course begs the question: What is faith? Faith teachers have a ready answer for you. They look at Hebrews 11:1 and they say faith is a force, words are the containers of the force, and through the force of faith you create your own reality. So if you learn to access the proper vocabulary, use the right words, you’re not going to be a paraplegic because Hebrew 11:1 says that “faith is the substance of things hoped for and the evidence of things not seen.” So—say the Faith teachers—you have right it there, faith is the substance—the stuff—and words the containers of the stuff.
Of course that’s not what Hebrew 11:1 really has in mind. A proper reading of Hebrew 11:1 in context demonstrates that faith is the assurance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen. Which is to say; true biblical faith is not stuff contained in your words. It’s not a substance, a tangible reality. It’s living assurance, a channel of living trust between an individual and their God.
Faith is only as good, therefore, as the object in whom it is placed. We place our faith in God and we say with Job, “though He slay me, yet will I trust in Him” (13:15). The reason for that is that God has given us enough evidence to trust in Him despite the difficulties of life. He had demonstrated to us that in this life we are going to have trouble because we live in a fallen world. So if you’re a paraplegic, it’s not because you don’t have enough faith. It’s because you live in a fallen world. We are called in this fallen world to put our trust in God and ultimately that trust in God is going to eventuate in a new heaven and new earth in which there will be no more paraplegics. Like Joni Eareckson Tada has said, “They will pole vault the pearly gates,”[2] because then the old order of things will pass away, and everything will become new.
In the meantime, do not follow the Faith teachers or swallow their formulas, they are dead ends and deceptions. The last thing you want to tell a paraplegic is that he doesn’t have enough faith. Some of the greatest faith bearers and exemplars of faith that I have met in my life are blind people. Joni Eareckson Tada, a quadriplegic, is my hero of faith and she taught me the true meaning of faith. Through the overflow of a life spent in a wheelchair, she has blessed the lives through her faithful service of literally millions of people around the globe. So encourage those that are hurting that they will one day walk with the Lord and have pity for people in the church who find it necessary to tell people that they don’t have enough faith. - Hank Hanegraaff
If You Are not Healed, Do You Lack Faith? | CRI
Whatever, you won't learn the truth till you get sick and God decides not to heal you, hopefully that won't destroy your faith, and if that's God's will. Or someone whom you regard in your life as faithful as you are and he/she gets sick and doesn't get healed. Sound harsh I know, and I hope it doesn't have to come to this.
When God doesn't heal, He is not breaking His promises to us, because all in Christ will be healed ultimately at our resurrection.
Matthew 5:45, so that you may be sons of your Father who is in heaven; for He causes His sun to rise on the evil and the good, and sends rain on the righteous and the unrighteous. I suspect you won't see the spiritual meaning to this.
I'm done, no use in arguing over this, it doesn't edify the body.
When God doesn't heal, He is not breaking His promises to us, because all in Christ will be healed ultimately at our resurrection.
Matthew 5:45, so that you may be sons of your Father who is in heaven; for He causes His sun to rise on the evil and the good, and sends rain on the righteous and the unrighteous. I suspect you won't see the spiritual meaning to this.
I'm done, no use in arguing over this, it doesn't edify the body.
Now give us a true account, with witnesses, of someone who has been supernaturally healed by God from a documented physical illness, short or long term, that was diagnosed by the medical profession to be irreversible and with no possibility of restoration or recovery. The statement that has been made that God may or may not heal, so to be balanced and to come out also on the other side you need to give an example so that believers can trust in the living God and believe for healing for themselves or for others, that is if you truly believe that God can and does heal in these present days.
How many people have you diligently prayed for specific physical healings, that you were either asked to pray for or felt lead to pray for and you witnessed the actual healing of that person in one way or another, before or after the fact? I do not mean someone who had the flu or a cold or something they could recover from with the help of a doctor or some form of treatment. Have you witnessed one out of 100, one out of out of 200, out of 300 or is it even more? Ever wonder why that is and why it is so out of balance? You would think that God would hear your prayer and the prayer of others and at least heal 50% seeing how God is for the righteous. Could you safely say with what you have observed in your own life that God very rarely, if ever, heals people that you pray and believe God for? If you are a righteous man you can be honest seeing how you also began this thread and give us your answers. These are fair questions and just as objective as any question or inquire you have made.
How many people have you diligently prayed for specific physical healings, that you were either asked to pray for or felt lead to pray for and you witnessed the actual healing of that person in one way or another, before or after the fact? I do not mean someone who had the flu or a cold or something they could recover from with the help of a doctor or some form of treatment. Have you witnessed one out of 100, one out of out of 200, out of 300 or is it even more? Ever wonder why that is and why it is so out of balance? You would think that God would hear your prayer and the prayer of others and at least heal 50% seeing how God is for the righteous. Could you safely say with what you have observed in your own life that God very rarely, if ever, heals people that you pray and believe God for? If you are a righteous man you can be honest seeing how you also began this thread and give us your answers. These are fair questions and just as objective as any question or inquire you have made.
She is precious in God's sight just as she is and she has learned to be content and desire nothing but Him. She is a testimony of the mercy and grace of God and is winning Christ in her state.
Once it was the blessing, now it is the Lord;
Once it was the feeling, now it is His Word;
Once His gift I wanted, now the Giver own;
Once I sought for healing, now Himself alone.
— A.B. Simpson,
You know, God could heal her 100% just like that, without her even expecting it because of all the prayers that have gone up for her. The cry went up for (400) yrs before God delivered the children of Israel from the bondage of Egypt. Why did God wait so long some ask?
Once it was the blessing, now it is the Lord;
Once it was the feeling, now it is His Word;
Once His gift I wanted, now the Giver own;
Once I sought for healing, now Himself alone.
— A.B. Simpson,
You know, God could heal her 100% just like that, without her even expecting it because of all the prayers that have gone up for her. The cry went up for (400) yrs before God delivered the children of Israel from the bondage of Egypt. Why did God wait so long some ask?
P
I will give you three.
Our daughter had a terminal liver disorder at 11 months.
I have the documentation, still.
The pediatrician called me every day to ask how I was doing. (I was pregnant for our third.)
We prayed,in faith, and many others did, too.
She got married last summer, in perfect health, at age 28.
Our son had an AVM, which ruptured and caused a stroke when he was 19.
We asked the Lord to heal him, as the docs said he'd be paralyzed on his left side as a result.
He is drumming again (with TWO hands), and walking normally, and attending college (though a bit late) now at 24. This is more recent. I have the papers from the hospital, and the words treasured in my heart of the medical folks saying, "Well, we don't like to use the word 'miracle', but...". This bleed happened one mm from his 'logic and reason' center of the frontal lobe.
Our fifth born had the umbilical cord wrapped around her neck three times. In the medical community it's known as 'the hangman's noose'. Our OB 'just happened' to be a fellow believer, and she said we should pray before she ruptured the amniotic sac, and we did. She later said Hannah should never have survived birth, but she did. I consider that miraculous.
I have an autoimmune disease. With that same faith, we have asked the Lord to make me well.
It's been 18 years, and we still ask. I still have that same condition.
What do you make of that? What sin am I committing...how shall I increase my faith, so the Lord will do what I want?
A
1. not everyone else is warring with LesJude.
2. Most have not forgotten that God heals and will not dispute the fact that God can heal people and have healed people.
3.just because we object to LesJude's words does not mean we would dismiss that God heals
4. Yes God is the same, do you know what these verses mean?
its an example of when JESUS did NOT heal not just one person but a WHOLE group of people and explains WHY God does NOT heal all the lepers or feed all the widows.
"none of them was cleansed except Naaman the Syrian"
many today would run someone who told the truth like JESUS out of their churches because they would rather believe a lie then understand GOD's Truth.
if you say its because of their lack of faith its because you lie to yourself.
read ALL of Luke 4 and you will see it does NOT say that. however people will twist God's words.
too often it is like Satan's voice telling them to jump off a cliff because didn't God promise.....
2. Most have not forgotten that God heals and will not dispute the fact that God can heal people and have healed people.
3.just because we object to LesJude's words does not mean we would dismiss that God heals
4. Yes God is the same, do you know what these verses mean?
its an example of when JESUS did NOT heal not just one person but a WHOLE group of people and explains WHY God does NOT heal all the lepers or feed all the widows.
"none of them was cleansed except Naaman the Syrian"
many today would run someone who told the truth like JESUS out of their churches because they would rather believe a lie then understand GOD's Truth.
if you say its because of their lack of faith its because you lie to yourself.
read ALL of Luke 4 and you will see it does NOT say that. however people will twist God's words.
too often it is like Satan's voice telling them to jump off a cliff because didn't God promise.....