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P
Ahh..I see we disagree on a very fundamental level.
Which is fine.
But this repentance you speak of...there's no way I ever could have known to repent, had I not gotten that info from God.
And there's no way I had the ability to repent, had I not gotten that ability from God.
I agree with what you say here...I just don't think I had anything to do with it.
I'm a monergist.
Which is fine.
But this repentance you speak of...there's no way I ever could have known to repent, had I not gotten that info from God.
And there's no way I had the ability to repent, had I not gotten that ability from God.
I agree with what you say here...I just don't think I had anything to do with it.
I'm a monergist.
A
there is a difference between spiritual healing and physical healing.
too often people look to the body and forget that it will all be dust in a twinkling of an eye. why dwell on things that will pass away?
there is one thing you can say about all bodies: they are dying.
the rate and the speed they die or pass away may be different but our bodies are dying and yet people want to prop up the flesh when The Bible clearly says let the flesh die and be born again in SPIRIT.
Why many fail to receive healing? because many pray after their own lust to fulfill the lust of their flesh and not to bring glory to God.
They pray after what THEY want and not asking what it is that GOD wants.
They chase after the world and things of this world and like spoiled children protest that they were PROMISED such things when in truth God NEVER promised them an easy ride in this life.
All the false prophets spoke smooth words and told people how RICH and HEALTHY and Beautiful and powerful they would be, but God always came to the weak, the oppressed, the sick to show the world how HE sees beyond such things into the heart and soul of a person
How the outward appearance means nothing.
how His servants are beaten and misused but still have His joy in their hearts. They don't pray God take this cup from me but God may YOUR will be done.
too often people look to the body and forget that it will all be dust in a twinkling of an eye. why dwell on things that will pass away?
there is one thing you can say about all bodies: they are dying.
the rate and the speed they die or pass away may be different but our bodies are dying and yet people want to prop up the flesh when The Bible clearly says let the flesh die and be born again in SPIRIT.
Why many fail to receive healing? because many pray after their own lust to fulfill the lust of their flesh and not to bring glory to God.
They pray after what THEY want and not asking what it is that GOD wants.
They chase after the world and things of this world and like spoiled children protest that they were PROMISED such things when in truth God NEVER promised them an easy ride in this life.
All the false prophets spoke smooth words and told people how RICH and HEALTHY and Beautiful and powerful they would be, but God always came to the weak, the oppressed, the sick to show the world how HE sees beyond such things into the heart and soul of a person
How the outward appearance means nothing.
how His servants are beaten and misused but still have His joy in their hearts. They don't pray God take this cup from me but God may YOUR will be done.
P
omigoodness, you have quoted some unconditional promises to the believer!
When one is in Christ, we are promised the Holy Spirit!
I mean, yes, you have to have been saved, but God sends the Holy Spirit,
to the believer, no conditions applied!
We are promised we shall be His witnesses!
As far as Exodus goes, that was part of the Old Covenant conditions...
of which we are not (nor have ever been) a part.
(unless you were Jewish before God saved you?)
And what about the Lord's promise to never again flood the earth?
Is that conditional on our not sinning?
Or being demonically influenced?
I am truly happy for you, that neither you nor your family have been afflicted in any way.
Or at least, not 'for long'.
That smacks of hypocrisy to me though.
because if you take this doctrine to its logical conclusion,
you should never have become ill in the first place......right?
Was it Lazarus' faith that got him raised from the dead?
It wasn't his sisters' faith, was it?
Did Jesus heal absolutely everyone He met?
At the pool of Bethsaida, wasn't only one person healed?
I s'pose you will say only that one had faith...
That man acted on Christ's invitation, but he didn't even know Who Jesus is till after.
For you have been called for this purpose, since Christ also suffered for you, leaving you an example for you to follow in His steps, (1 Peter 2:21)
If illness burns away the flesh, is that not to greater glory than being well?
If I ask to be made well, in all child like faith, believing God can, and will, do it,
and I am not well, but submit to the will of God asking Him to glorify Himself
whatever way he chooses...this is evil?
hi Ariel
well said. i wonder if God was mad at Paul or if he didn't have enough faith to fix all his hardships?
love zone
2 Corinthians 11
Paul’s Sufferings as an Apostle
16I repeat, let no one think me foolish. But even if you do, accept me as a fool, so that I too may boast a little. 17What I am saying with this boastful confidence, I say not with the Lord’s authority but as a fool. 18Since many boast according to the flesh, I too will boast. 19For you gladly bear with fools, being wise yourselves! 20For you bear it if someone makes slaves of you, or devours you, or takes advantage of you, or puts on airs, or strikes you in the face. 21To my shame, I must say, we were too weak for that!
But whatever anyone else dares to boast of—I am speaking as a fool—I also dare to boast of that. 22Are they Hebrews? So am I. Are they Israelites? So am I. Are they offspring of Abraham? So am I. 23Are they servants of Christ? I am a better one—I am talking like a madman—with far greater labors, far more imprisonments, with countless beatings, and often near death. 24Five times I received at the hands of the Jews the forty lashes less one. 25Three times I was beaten with rods. Once I was stoned. Three times I was shipwrecked; a night and a day I was adrift at sea; 26on frequent journeys, in danger from rivers, danger from robbers, danger from my own people, danger from Gentiles, danger in the city, danger in the wilderness, danger at sea, danger from false brothers; 27 in toil and hardship, through many a sleepless night, in hunger and thirst, often without food,a in cold and exposure. 28 And, apart from other things, there is the daily pressure on me of my anxiety for all the churches. 29 Who is weak, and I am not weak? Who is made to fall, and I am not indignant?
30If I must boast, I will boast of the things that show my weakness. 31The God and Father of the Lord Jesus, he who is blessed forever, knows that I am not lying. 32At Damascus, the governor under King Aretas was guarding the city of Damascus in order to seize me, 33but I was let down in a basket through a window in the wall and escaped his hands.
well said. i wonder if God was mad at Paul or if he didn't have enough faith to fix all his hardships?
love zone
2 Corinthians 11
Paul’s Sufferings as an Apostle
16I repeat, let no one think me foolish. But even if you do, accept me as a fool, so that I too may boast a little. 17What I am saying with this boastful confidence, I say not with the Lord’s authority but as a fool. 18Since many boast according to the flesh, I too will boast. 19For you gladly bear with fools, being wise yourselves! 20For you bear it if someone makes slaves of you, or devours you, or takes advantage of you, or puts on airs, or strikes you in the face. 21To my shame, I must say, we were too weak for that!
But whatever anyone else dares to boast of—I am speaking as a fool—I also dare to boast of that. 22Are they Hebrews? So am I. Are they Israelites? So am I. Are they offspring of Abraham? So am I. 23Are they servants of Christ? I am a better one—I am talking like a madman—with far greater labors, far more imprisonments, with countless beatings, and often near death. 24Five times I received at the hands of the Jews the forty lashes less one. 25Three times I was beaten with rods. Once I was stoned. Three times I was shipwrecked; a night and a day I was adrift at sea; 26on frequent journeys, in danger from rivers, danger from robbers, danger from my own people, danger from Gentiles, danger in the city, danger in the wilderness, danger at sea, danger from false brothers; 27 in toil and hardship, through many a sleepless night, in hunger and thirst, often without food,a in cold and exposure. 28 And, apart from other things, there is the daily pressure on me of my anxiety for all the churches. 29 Who is weak, and I am not weak? Who is made to fall, and I am not indignant?
30If I must boast, I will boast of the things that show my weakness. 31The God and Father of the Lord Jesus, he who is blessed forever, knows that I am not lying. 32At Damascus, the governor under King Aretas was guarding the city of Damascus in order to seize me, 33but I was let down in a basket through a window in the wall and escaped his hands.
L
Of course God is sovereign and is the same as His word which He always honors:
Psalm 138:2
New King James Version (NKJV)
2 I will worship toward Your holy temple,
And praise Your name
For Your lovingkindness and Your truth;
For You have magnified Your word above all Your name.
The Bible is silent on the issue of why Paul left him sick, but is not silent on the promise of healing so it really is not significant to anyone but those who seek to use this as a proof text that God does not always heal. The bible says in many places God does and Jesus demonstrated it over and over.
The prayer of faith according to James 5:14-15 is made once and then healing takes place, often over a period of time John 4:46-54 with attention to verses 52-53 and Luke 17:11-19- lepers healed as they went. Miracles are instantaneous but healings are gradual.
Paul could have prayed the prayer of faith, counted it done, and left on kingdom business having faith in His heart that he would be healed. Healing in the early church was taken for granted so Paul leaving would be seen as no real issue. Even if the man died it does not negate all the clear promises for healing in God's word.
It is possible Trophimus had issues to work through with God before seeing his healing. It was quite possible that God was teaching him to believe for himself for healing and not be dependent on the prayers of others which is where God wants all his children's faith. What does one do if the person they have become dependent on is not around if they cannot have faith for themselves? God trains His disciples in faith for healing.
Psalm 138:2
New King James Version (NKJV)
2 I will worship toward Your holy temple,
And praise Your name
For Your lovingkindness and Your truth;
For You have magnified Your word above all Your name.
The Bible is silent on the issue of why Paul left him sick, but is not silent on the promise of healing so it really is not significant to anyone but those who seek to use this as a proof text that God does not always heal. The bible says in many places God does and Jesus demonstrated it over and over.
The prayer of faith according to James 5:14-15 is made once and then healing takes place, often over a period of time John 4:46-54 with attention to verses 52-53 and Luke 17:11-19- lepers healed as they went. Miracles are instantaneous but healings are gradual.
Paul could have prayed the prayer of faith, counted it done, and left on kingdom business having faith in His heart that he would be healed. Healing in the early church was taken for granted so Paul leaving would be seen as no real issue. Even if the man died it does not negate all the clear promises for healing in God's word.
It is possible Trophimus had issues to work through with God before seeing his healing. It was quite possible that God was teaching him to believe for himself for healing and not be dependent on the prayers of others which is where God wants all his children's faith. What does one do if the person they have become dependent on is not around if they cannot have faith for themselves? God trains His disciples in faith for healing.
E
God promised to heal our souls, to heal the rift between God and man because of sin, and restor the fellowship we have with him. And he promised to heal our eternal sickness of death. That is all.
he never promised to heal any sickness. sometimes he does to his glory, and sometimes he does not to his glory.
Ever seen the witness of a seriously ill child of God who still praises God even through his affliction? I have seen many people come to god through this "light" which shines through in sickness. and the way the child of God responds. vs a non child of God who has no hope past this lifetime.
As Paul said, he considered tribulation a momentary light affliction, and because of his attitude of being God first, and not self first. many people came to God.
We should praise God no matter what. If he heals us, Thank you God, If he does not, Thank you god. I know you can use me some way through this sickness. And I trust you no matter what!
he never promised to heal any sickness. sometimes he does to his glory, and sometimes he does not to his glory.
Ever seen the witness of a seriously ill child of God who still praises God even through his affliction? I have seen many people come to god through this "light" which shines through in sickness. and the way the child of God responds. vs a non child of God who has no hope past this lifetime.
As Paul said, he considered tribulation a momentary light affliction, and because of his attitude of being God first, and not self first. many people came to God.
We should praise God no matter what. If he heals us, Thank you God, If he does not, Thank you god. I know you can use me some way through this sickness. And I trust you no matter what!
E
he heals his bride when they are in heaven, and there is no more sickness, pain or death. Please show a verse where he promises a child of God they will never die physically? for is he promises to remove and heal all sickness, then no child of God will die. better yet. show us all the hcildren of God who were born again in christ's day that are still alive because they have been healed.
as for paul. paul's thorn in the flesh was his eyesite. he was blinded when he was visited by chtrist, and he never fully God it back. Imagine a proud saul, who had everything, now blind and sick.
L
I am not now nor have I ever been part of the heretical WOF.
Click on the link below for this forum and please read it:
http://christianchat.com/bible-discussion-forum/52773-answering-objections-healing-atonement.html
Why do you call God a liar based on the carnal experiences of you, others, and the religious doctrines of men?
Carefully here with Simon. Here is why:
Matthew 12:28-32
New King James Version (NKJV)
28 But if I cast out demons by the Spirit of God, surely the kingdom of God has come upon you. 29 Or how can one enter a strong man’s house and plunder his goods, unless he first binds the strong man? And then he will plunder his house. 30 He who is not with Me is against Me, and he who does not gather with Me scatters abroad.
The Unpardonable Sin
31 “Therefore I say to you, every sin and blasphemy will be forgiven men, but the blasphemy against the Spirit will not be forgiven men. 32 Anyone who speaks a word against the Son of Man, it will be forgiven him; but whoever speaks against the Holy Spirit, it will not be forgiven him, either in this age or in the age to come.
Click on the link below for this forum and please read it:
http://christianchat.com/bible-discussion-forum/52773-answering-objections-healing-atonement.html
Why do you call God a liar based on the carnal experiences of you, others, and the religious doctrines of men?
Carefully here with Simon. Here is why:
Matthew 12:28-32
New King James Version (NKJV)
28 But if I cast out demons by the Spirit of God, surely the kingdom of God has come upon you. 29 Or how can one enter a strong man’s house and plunder his goods, unless he first binds the strong man? And then he will plunder his house. 30 He who is not with Me is against Me, and he who does not gather with Me scatters abroad.
The Unpardonable Sin
31 “Therefore I say to you, every sin and blasphemy will be forgiven men, but the blasphemy against the Spirit will not be forgiven men. 32 Anyone who speaks a word against the Son of Man, it will be forgiven him; but whoever speaks against the Holy Spirit, it will not be forgiven him, either in this age or in the age to come.
1
Healing, and ultimate restoration for all IS in the atonement.
Colossians 1
19 For God was pleased to have all his fullness dwell in him, 20 and through him to reconcile to himself all things, whether things on earth or things in heaven, by making peace through his blood, shed on the cross.
Romans 8
20 For the creation was subjected to frustration, not by its own choice, but by the will of the one who subjected it, in hope 21 that[h] the creation itself will be liberated from its bondage to decay and brought into the freedom and glory of the children of God.
The question is...
When will the FULLNESS of all this healing/restoration be FULLY realized?
Some say NOW!
But that's really bad eschatology.
Because it has the TIMING of full manifestation all WRONG.
There will no longer be the presence of any curse whatsoever in the new heavens/new Earth.
Rev 22
3 No longer will there be any curse. The throne of God and of the Lamb will be in the city, and his servants will serve him.
Rev 21
3 And I heard a loud voice from the throne saying, “Look! God’s dwelling place is now among the people, and he will dwell with them. They will be his people, and God himself will be with them and be their God. 4 ‘He will wipe every tear from their eyes. There will be no more death’ or mourning or crying or pain, for the old order of things has passed away.”
So the answer isn't IF, it's WHEN!
The FULL manifestation of the atonement's benefits await, and are realized in that day when there is no longer any curse, and when the old order of things has passed away.
For now, we wait in hope.
Romans 8
25 But if we hope for what we do not yet have, we wait for it patiently.
Not that the kingdom isn't present in our lives.
It totally is.
Without it, we couldn't grow in righteousness.
Yet the FULL manifestation of it is still to come.
We are strengthened by hope until then.
Colossians 1
19 For God was pleased to have all his fullness dwell in him, 20 and through him to reconcile to himself all things, whether things on earth or things in heaven, by making peace through his blood, shed on the cross.
Romans 8
20 For the creation was subjected to frustration, not by its own choice, but by the will of the one who subjected it, in hope 21 that[h] the creation itself will be liberated from its bondage to decay and brought into the freedom and glory of the children of God.
The question is...
When will the FULLNESS of all this healing/restoration be FULLY realized?
Some say NOW!
But that's really bad eschatology.
Because it has the TIMING of full manifestation all WRONG.
There will no longer be the presence of any curse whatsoever in the new heavens/new Earth.
Rev 22
3 No longer will there be any curse. The throne of God and of the Lamb will be in the city, and his servants will serve him.
Rev 21
3 And I heard a loud voice from the throne saying, “Look! God’s dwelling place is now among the people, and he will dwell with them. They will be his people, and God himself will be with them and be their God. 4 ‘He will wipe every tear from their eyes. There will be no more death’ or mourning or crying or pain, for the old order of things has passed away.”
So the answer isn't IF, it's WHEN!
The FULL manifestation of the atonement's benefits await, and are realized in that day when there is no longer any curse, and when the old order of things has passed away.
For now, we wait in hope.
Romans 8
25 But if we hope for what we do not yet have, we wait for it patiently.
Not that the kingdom isn't present in our lives.
It totally is.
Without it, we couldn't grow in righteousness.
Yet the FULL manifestation of it is still to come.
We are strengthened by hope until then.
L
Some have not and will not die which the Bible is clear on. The rest will die but do not have to die sick, just a peaceful transition.
Please click on the link for this forum below and read it:
http://christianchat.com/bible-discussion-forum/53627-pauls-thorn-not-sickness.html
Healing in this life is clearly promised and I have given dozens of scriptures.
Please click on the link form this forum and read it:http://christianchat.com/bible-discussion-forum/53692-only-believe-stop-negative.html
Please click on the link for this forum below and read it:
http://christianchat.com/bible-discussion-forum/53627-pauls-thorn-not-sickness.html
Healing in this life is clearly promised and I have given dozens of scriptures.
Please click on the link form this forum and read it:http://christianchat.com/bible-discussion-forum/53692-only-believe-stop-negative.html