Why pastors and preachers should not be receiving salaries

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Jun 5, 2018
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I think the OP's question is valid, especially supported in Paul's teaching. The arguments against the OP are exactly the same teaching I used to hear coming from behind pulpits so long ago.

Pastors that justify their worth expecting and often demanding that the congregation is required to pay them a regular wage as you would in a secular job, (a hireling or a hired hand).

Their trump card so often used is "the elder is worthy of double honor". Yes "honor" somehow magically changes to mean money or a weekly paycheck.
Do note that just a few verses earlier Paul is addressing people with widowed family members not to burden the congregation and take care of their own family members. Key word here is burden.

Also, notice this: The Apostle Paul does not equate "working" with preaching the gospel.
The two activities are clearly and distinctly separate in Paul’s mind.
1 Thessalonians 2:9 "Surely you remember brothers, our toil and hardship; we worked night and day in order not to be a burden to anyone while we preached the gospel of God to you."

Here in 2 Thessalonians 3: 6-15, the Apostle Paul says the same thing, except with even more emphasis.

Now we command you, brethren, in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ,
that you keep away from any brother who is living in idleness and not in
accord with the tradition that you received from us.


For you yourselves know how you ought to imitate us; we were not idle
when we were with you, we did not eat any one's bread without paying,
but
with toil and labor we worked night and day, that we might not BURDEN
any of you.


It was not because we have not that right, but to give you in our CONDUCT
an
EXAMPLE TO IMITATE.

For even when we were with you, we gave you this command: If
any one
will not work, let him not eat. For we hear that some of you are living in
idleness, mere busybodies, not doing any work.

Now such persons we command and exhort in the Lord Jesus Christ
to do their
WORK in quietness and to earn their OWN living.
Brethren, do not be weary in well-doing.

If any one refuses to obey what we say in this letter, note that man,
and have nothing to do with him, that he may be ashamed. Do not look
on him as an enemy, but warn him as a brother.
(RSV)


Again, the key word here is "burden".

The Apostle Paul has clearly labeled the “paid pastors” or the “teaching elders”, the paid professional clergy, not a benefit, but rather a burden; not a help, but rather a hindrance.
 
Dec 28, 2016
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I never said a preacher’s needs should not be supplied. And what are those needs? Food, water, shelter and clothing. Anything beyond that is not a need, and pastors today have many things that don’t qualify as basic needs. Yet they call those things their needs and then use believers’ money to purchase luxury at the expense of those who don’t even have basic needs met.
So, preachers are taking money from people who don't have the basic needs of clothing, shelter and food?
 

Ghoti2

Well-known member
Nov 8, 2019
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283
63
It must be horrible to want the power to control how a preacher has to live... and never have that domination within your grasp.
 
Jul 23, 2018
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Lester Roloff told his congregation from the pulpit he would change wallets or bank accounts with anyone in the church.

I am guessing he saw finances like paul did.

It all went to the kingdom.

Money had no grip on the past great men of God.
 
T

TheIndianGirl

Guest
Why are we applying a different more strict standard for pastors? If we think "needs" alone like food and shelter are sufficient for pastor, shouldn't that be sufficient enough for us too? After all everything including our provisions/money comes from God, not from us. Would God think that we are are more deserving of a trip to DisneyWorld than pastor's family?

Paul was a older single man, not a younger pastor with family.

I don't think a pastor should be rich, but median salary where he is living seems reasonable. So, the pastor who is living in a rural area would make much less than pastor in New York City.
 

tourist

Senior Member
Mar 13, 2014
42,655
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Tennessee
Why are we applying a different more strict standard for pastors? If we think "needs" alone like food and shelter are sufficient for pastor, shouldn't that be sufficient enough for us too? After all everything including our provisions/money comes from God, not from us. Would God think that we are more deserving of a trip to Disney World than pastor's family?

Paul was a older single man, not a younger pastor with family.

I don't think a pastor should be rich, but median salary where he is living seems reasonable. So, the pastor who is living in a rural area would make much less than pastor in New York City.
I fully concur with your estimation. So I guess the pastor gets paid with food and his wife and kids eat the crumbs that fall from the table and land on the floor.
 

tourist

Senior Member
Mar 13, 2014
42,655
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"

It really irritates me when some newbie walks in here and is lecturing the forum in all kinds of weird and whacky made up nonsense.

We are simple people, love God, and serve him. Take your ministry of condemnation elsewhere. I hate the prosperity gospel with a passion. It is evil. But when I discuss it, I explain why the doctrine is not Scriptural, I don't scream at people and judge them! Try and ask God to give you an irenic spirit. You certainly need it!
Amen to that.
 

tourist

Senior Member
Mar 13, 2014
42,655
17,111
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Tennessee
Yep, you’ve just proven what I said too. It’s apparent that I must be saying everything you presume I’m saying. That’s your version of truth. LOL. And you are automatically innocent without proving it. LOL. Falwell, don’t bother replying to me because I’m not going to talk to self presumptuous hypocrites.
Falwell? I believe that he was one of those greedy pastors.
 

JesusLives

Senior Member
Oct 11, 2013
14,554
2,176
113
Does gaining millions of income from preaching sound like making a LIVING to you? I do agree with pastors being supported by the church, but I would support them with ACTUAL MEALS and NECESSITIES rather than money. Because anything beyond meals and necessities makes them greedy.
Mental note to self - if a pastor has anything beyond a meal and necessities then they are greedy.... check...

Enxu - how do you expect them to put a roof over their families head? How will they get around to do their work and get to the church?

Are you saying that we as members need to take in the pastor and his family feed and cloth them and then drive him or them where ever they need to go?

if they get sick or injured then we as church members need to pay for their hospital care?

Please elaborate your plan beside a meal and necessities...I'd like to know what your plan is to take care of everyday real needs any family has not just a pastor...
 

Blade

Well-known member
Nov 19, 2019
1,799
630
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I've been around for a some time and I still don't know the exact amount any preacher takes home. I know what the world says about preachers and what believers say about preachers.

So about Jesus...it seems we always picture Jesus no home, lived on the streets and poor. Just seems flipped to me. Well our Father aka GOD He paves the streets with GOLD and anything you want is yours in heaven. Now here on earth the worldly can have it all but anyone that believes in God. Well you can only just get by. Anything more and its a sin. No one stops me from giving till it hurts, I mean to help the poor they way it SHOULD be done is. When you help one? YOU KEEP GOING! You never stop until they are back on their feet. Anyway back to Jesus. So we have 12 that are just getting by. Yet whats odd is.. for 12 that don't not much of anything HAD to have someone in charge of the money? Then no one had a clue ONE of them was taking money of which they had none?

Today how do people treat that evangelist or preacher they love to hear from? Or the TV ministry? Where they give everything even when they don't ask for it. Back to Jesus.. amp that up now. How are people going to treat give to Christ and the 12 when they see WODNERS, see GOD moving right in front of them. How much do you think ALL those people tried and did give to the 12? I would give anything...just to help them. And you?

You've never heard GOD tell you "I want you to bless so and so"? True story and sorry .. not good with words for give me. God told this man to got to Russia. Wanted to get the word of God in to Russia. This was many many years ago. Well God sent him to this other nation. He really started to question God because where God sent him was NOT RUSSIA lol. I forget how he meet this woman but she invited him to dinner with her husband. The man (preacher) talked about how God wanted him to get he bible in to Russia. The woman's husband looked at his wife and said "you told him?" She said "no". See that husband and wife? Loved the lord and were trying to do the same exact thing. Now this man and wife had SO many companies IN Russia. He was very rich. What are the odds they meet? What a perfect open door.

The problem here is were talking about a day and time that happen over 2000 years ago. Would you like to talk about how they went to CHURCH things they did that we never do. We talk about some preacher that WE don't know anything about. Never called them up asked them HOW they got that money. I could put out a name and you KNOW this preacher. Then tell you what I found about him. Saw the documents. See in the past before this huge Church he bought so much land and buildings with his own money and made DOES of cash. And whats odd is there is not ONE story on him about this. Another you know that gave MILLIONS away when they needed it. Or another where on and on they say "the Church paid for that house he lives in". Yet I found he was another that was VERY rich before Christ found him. And the fact he paid for that house. NOT the Church. Just odd these stories never get talked about.. EVER! We can all watch the "EXPOSED" and you will not EVER hear read what I said in those stories.

My best example of this is when we had a fire here and one of these ministries you know call us. We were like "wait.. how in the world did they get our phone number?" This is what they said when we had this huge fire and all around us had to leave our houses. The said "what you do need? Ask.. no matter what it is we will get it to you". No other believer call us or those around us to help not one. Then I dig more and found.. wow they do this for all the storms earthquake fires. WHY is this also not in the news? Gee makes you wonder.

All those faith preachers.. I've never heard one say they believe in "prosperity gospel". Iv'e watched them say "there is no such thing in the bible as "prosperity gospel". So if were talking about THEM should we not use the words THEY say? Seems "prosperity gospel" is used to make fun of them. Put them in a negative light no?

Sorry this is so long. Have faith :) No one gets away with anything. :) Pray for them.. give them over to HIM. It is to Him alone we all will answer to. But try to see the GOOD in them 1st.. as He does each of us
 

Melach

Well-known member
Mar 28, 2019
2,057
1,526
113
Now we command you, brethren, in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ,
that you keep away from any brother who is living in idleness and not in
accord with the tradition that you received from us.


thanks billabong for posting this. this part in particular interesting to me. this proofs what i thought in my mind that its not ok for christian men to just sit around on welfare benefits. i understand in these times you cant find a job ive used that excuse but what they really mean is: i cant find a job i like. im sure mcdonalds is hiring and i dont say it with disrespect. but mcdonalds is a horrible job so many people dont want to do that. but if you really wanted a job desperately you would take any job. but i dont need to because welfare exists. if welfare stops then i need to take whatever job thats what i believe
 

Marcelo

Senior Member
Feb 4, 2016
2,359
859
113
73
Mental note to self - if a pastor has anything beyond a meal and necessities then they are greedy.... check...

Enxu - how do you expect them to put a roof over their families head? How will they get around to do their work and get to the church?

Are you saying that we as members need to take in the pastor and his family feed and cloth them and then drive him or them where ever they need to go?

if they get sick or injured then we as church members need to pay for their hospital care?

Please elaborate your plan beside a meal and necessities...I'd like to know what your plan is to take care of everyday real needs any family has not just a pastor...
When I first heard about my current denomination I was amazed at the fact that its ministers were not salaried and I told myself: "This must be perfect church". In my mind all those ministers were absolutely selfless, but overtime I learned that most of them could sell their own mothers to gain access to the pulpit. So, one of the important lessons I learned was: Money is not the root of all evils.
 

JesusLives

Senior Member
Oct 11, 2013
14,554
2,176
113
When I first heard about my current denomination I was amazed at the fact that its ministers were not salaried and I told myself: "This must be perfect church". In my mind all those ministers were absolutely selfless, but overtime I learned that most of them could sell their own mothers to gain access to the pulpit. So, one of the important lessons I learned was: Money is not the root of all evils.
Unfortunately in this world we all need to earn money to survive. Unless you are lucky enough to have land and know everything you need to know to support yourself. It would have to have a water supply and trees so you could build a dwelling. Have fire etc. Then you would have to grow your food. Not many of us have all those skills.

We get trained to have a job and earn money to trade for what we need. Pastors are the same as we are they need a place to live and a way to get around and those things cost money. They aren't greedy just because they need to earn money.
 
4

49

Guest
There was a member here several years back that had an issue with ministers and salaries. Name evades me at the moment, but he was relentless! Okay, sorry for derailing.
 
Jan 12, 2019
7,497
1,399
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I've been around for a some time and I still don't know the exact amount any preacher takes home. I know what the world says about preachers and what believers say about preachers.

So about Jesus...it seems we always picture Jesus no home, lived on the streets and poor. Just seems flipped to me. Well our Father aka GOD He paves the streets with GOLD and anything you want is yours in heaven. Now here on earth the worldly can have it all but anyone that believes in God. Well you can only just get by. Anything more and its a sin. No one stops me from giving till it hurts, I mean to help the poor they way it SHOULD be done is. When you help one? YOU KEEP GOING! You never stop until they are back on their feet. Anyway back to Jesus. So we have 12 that are just getting by. Yet whats odd is.. for 12 that don't not much of anything HAD to have someone in charge of the money? Then no one had a clue ONE of them was taking money of which they had none?

Today how do people treat that evangelist or preacher they love to hear from? Or the TV ministry? Where they give everything even when they don't ask for it. Back to Jesus.. amp that up now. How are people going to treat give to Christ and the 12 when they see WODNERS, see GOD moving right in front of them. How much do you think ALL those people tried and did give to the 12? I would give anything...just to help them. And you?

You've never heard GOD tell you "I want you to bless so and so"? True story and sorry .. not good with words for give me. God told this man to got to Russia. Wanted to get the word of God in to Russia. This was many many years ago. Well God sent him to this other nation. He really started to question God because where God sent him was NOT RUSSIA lol. I forget how he meet this woman but she invited him to dinner with her husband. The man (preacher) talked about how God wanted him to get he bible in to Russia. The woman's husband looked at his wife and said "you told him?" She said "no". See that husband and wife? Loved the lord and were trying to do the same exact thing. Now this man and wife had SO many companies IN Russia. He was very rich. What are the odds they meet? What a perfect open door.

The problem here is were talking about a day and time that happen over 2000 years ago. Would you like to talk about how they went to CHURCH things they did that we never do. We talk about some preacher that WE don't know anything about. Never called them up asked them HOW they got that money. I could put out a name and you KNOW this preacher. Then tell you what I found about him. Saw the documents. See in the past before this huge Church he bought so much land and buildings with his own money and made DOES of cash. And whats odd is there is not ONE story on him about this. Another you know that gave MILLIONS away when they needed it. Or another where on and on they say "the Church paid for that house he lives in". Yet I found he was another that was VERY rich before Christ found him. And the fact he paid for that house. NOT the Church. Just odd these stories never get talked about.. EVER! We can all watch the "EXPOSED" and you will not EVER hear read what I said in those stories.

My best example of this is when we had a fire here and one of these ministries you know call us. We were like "wait.. how in the world did they get our phone number?" This is what they said when we had this huge fire and all around us had to leave our houses. The said "what you do need? Ask.. no matter what it is we will get it to you". No other believer call us or those around us to help not one. Then I dig more and found.. wow they do this for all the storms earthquake fires. WHY is this also not in the news? Gee makes you wonder.

All those faith preachers.. I've never heard one say they believe in "prosperity gospel". Iv'e watched them say "there is no such thing in the bible as "prosperity gospel". So if were talking about THEM should we not use the words THEY say? Seems "prosperity gospel" is used to make fun of them. Put them in a negative light no?

Sorry this is so long. Have faith :) No one gets away with anything. :) Pray for them.. give them over to HIM. It is to Him alone we all will answer to. But try to see the GOOD in them 1st.. as He does each of us
If Jesus was indeed financially poor, he must be the first one to actually need a treasurer John 12:6, and he was so poor that there was actually so much money that Judas could help himself to it without people realizing it.
 
S

Scribe

Guest
All of God’s priests, apostles and prophets were allowed to receive material goods from believers because they had the primary job of preaching the truth and the Gospel. Those material goods were received ONLY to satisfy their most basic needs like food, water, clothing and shelter.

But modern day constitutional Churches turned the job of preaching into an enterprise, and instead of receiving material things to satisfy only basic needs, pastors and teachers are getting rich from preaching while most of the hearers who give them money are poorer than them or live in poverty. The poor are ignored while the preachers get millions of income. This is against the very teachings of Jesus and His apostles. Even the apostle Paul supported his ministry through tent making, to set a good example.

Repent you leaders of the church.
Are you just making wild statements because of a particular few TV personalities? They are not the measurement of most pastors. Most pastors have to be bi-vocational to make ends meet. Most members do not tithe. That being said, people can do what they want with their money. What if a business owner from some other church, from another state, says I appreciate your ministry and I am designating this gift to you and your family specifically because I know your salary is capped by the voting board members of the church (as most are) and I want you to use this for your family. And they send them 2 million. (yes these things do happen all the time in the kingdom of God among liberal givers) Is that pastor obligated to send it back to please the critics that do not tithe but complain about pastors that appear to be doing well financially? If a pastor made $30K a year for 30 years but was wise with his money and invested in mutual funds with 15% of every check and at the end of the 30 years with compound interest has accumulated 3 Million making him a multimillionaire, able to draw 300k a year to live on without touching his principle, there would be many that would call him a false prophet fleecing the flock and not giving to the poor because they would assume based on his 300K a year that he could not have come by it any other way than to take it from church funds. This kind of judging by outward appearance (what the pastor drives or the value of his house) Makes God sick. And frankly, it makes me sick also.