Why the king james?

[posthuman]

I believe the KJV is the inspired Word of God...

i believe the KJV is a translation of the inspired word of God into ((a 400 year old version of)) English.
one of many. each with its own virtues and flaws.

 

[John146]

God had this book written in Hebrew and in Greek. those manuscripts are the pure word in written form for us. every other language is a translation, and every translation has flaws. so the KJV is flawed just as much as anything else is.

Since we don't have those "originals" then by your "common sense," we have nothing we can trust to be the words of God in any language. We have no final authority to what God has said. No truth to appeal to.

 

[posthuman]

Since we don't have those "originals" then by your "common sense," we have nothing we can trust to be the words of God in any language. We have no final authority to what God has said. No truth to appeal to.

you don't have the Spirit?

 

[John146]

you don't have the Spirit?

Will the Holy Spirit teach you the words of God if you don't have them?

 

[posthuman]

Will the Holy Spirit teach you the words of God if you don't have them?

that's a "no, i don't have the Spirit - all my trust is in something translated 1600 years after the fact" ?

 

[posthuman]

Will the Holy Spirit teach you the words of God if you don't have them?

if the translators 1600 years ago didn't have the original autographs, how do you figure they made their translation?

 

[posthuman]

just forget it John.

this is an old, tired debate, and it's not worth having with you. your heart is hard.

 

[posthuman]

just forget it John.

this is an old, tired debate, and it's not worth having with you. your heart is hard.

it's that we've had exactly this conversation before. you've had exactly this conversation before. it's not convincing. your arguments are not convincing. they all just come across as blind loyalty to a work of men.

it's not worth having again.

it's one of those things that "destroys the listener"

Him that is weak in the faith receive ye,
but not to doubtful disputations.
(Romans 14:1) ​

 

[author]

"and you will know the truth, and the truth will set you free.” John 8:32 ESV

"Thomas said to him, “Lord, we do not know where you are going. How can we know the way?”6 Jesus said to him, “I am the way, and the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me." John 14:5-6 ESV

First, you have completely lost your credibility, by quoting John 8:32 without the reference, and in your context, you seem to be implying that the KJV is the "truth" instead of Jesus Christ, as he says only 6 chapters later. Jesus is the "truth." Not the KJV.

Second, there is a search function on the top right corner, if you want to read the threads in which people claim the KJV is the only proper translation, "authorized" by God - ie, King James, then you might want to do a search and spend a few days reading. You will get to know all the people who unsuccessfully tried to convince this forum that they were right about KJV Only, and those of us with training in reading Biblical languages were wrong about all the additions, mistakes which I in particular hammered home on many occasions. (Or read this thread - certainly many have posted on it - including me!)

Third, spend some time in this forum, before you ask these silly rhetorical questions in which we know the answers, but you pretend you don't. I have refuted the myth of the KJV being the only Bible on multiple occasions. Thank you!

As for the KJV, it is beyond my comprehension - all those archaic words and grammatical uses especially second person singular. Maybe if there were courses on Elizabethan grammar, I might feel differently, but until that day, the KJV is strange and alien to modern English. Then there are the mistakes which abound.

BUT- it has a wonderful history, and I think we should all be grateful, that at the time, it was a Bible in English for the common people. However, today, we need to use today's language to communicate, and certainly we have come so far in Bible scholarship with manuscripts that were not found until recently, especially the much earlier manuscripts than the 7 corrupt manuscripts that Erasmus, the Catholic priest used, which was then used by the KJV translation committee. (Yep the KJV is a Catholic Bible!)

So if the KJV works for you, I think that is wonderful. Continue to read it to grow closer to God. But no, you are never going to convince someone who loves reading Greek as much as me, with a Greek professor on the ESV and NIV translation committees that the KJV is the only right translation. The KJV is no longer communicates effectively, (and is ridden with small errors, although they don't change much doctrine,) and certainly for the average westerner, is not the best choice for devotions or study. Or preaching or teaching!

First of all, I do not, or will I ever attempt to gain any credibility with you. As far as given reference to "Know the truth and the truth shall make you free." I only use quotes from the Bible assuming that those to whom I am addressing will know where the passage is. I do not use quotes from fictitious literature. As far as reading, I have spent over thirty years reading and studying the Bible (I have over twenty translations of bibles on my computer and all but one are under the title FICTION. I have a Greek Bible, and a Greek Interlinear Bible, but I have total confidence that the Scholars that wrote the KJV were far more fluid in Greek than we are and I have total confidence in their work. I also have about over thirty Christian related books and I would gladly send you a list of them, but they would probable all be Greek to you. I certainly do not need a condescending lecture from you. I am sure great men of God like Charles Spurgeon, Billy Sunday, Billy Graham, and many many other great preachers who brought millions of lost souls to the Cross of Christ were handicapped by not having a copy of the ESV that was not copyrighted until 2001.

I will agree with you on one point, the KJV does not communicate effectively with airheads like you, and never has.
You seem to delight in giving me advice,allow me to give you advice. leave your intellectual hat on the hat rack and read the KJV which I am confident you have never read. I am confident that the Scholars who wrote the KJV were much more fluid in Greek than you are. The Holy Spirit is not an intellectual He is an interpreter of the Word of God, and God has made sure the KJV is not beyond understanding by any level of intellect. However, and this is the most important point; no one can understand the KJV unless the Holy Spirit interprets it for them, so if you cannot understand the KJV you know why.
The KJV has been around over four hundred years and for four hundred years there has been those like you attempting to debunk it. If the world exist four hundred years from now, which I doubt, the KJV will still be on book shelves next to dusty shelves where ESV bibles once occupied.
Although you make me tired, it is a pleasure chatting with you. We are jumping out of different Airplanes, (I use to be a Skydiver). but hopeful we can come together before we hit the ground.

[SUP] [/SUP]

 

[Dino246]

First of all, I do not, or will I ever attempt to gain any credibility with you. As far as given reference to "Know the truth and the truth shall make you free." I only use quotes from the Bible assuming that those to whom I am addressing will know where the passage is. I do not use quotes from fictitious literature. As far as reading, I have spent over thirty years reading and studying the Bible (I have over twenty translations of bibles on my computer and all but one are under the title FICTION. I have a Greek Bible, and a Greek Interlinear Bible, but I have total confidence that the Scholars that wrote the KJV were far more fluid in Greek than we are and I have total confidence in their work. I also have about over thirty Christian related books and I would gladly send you a list of them, but they would probable all be Greek to you. I certainly do not need a condescending lecture from you. I am sure great men of God like Charles Spurgeon, Billy Sunday, Billy Graham, and many many other great preachers who brought millions of lost souls to the Cross of Christ were handicapped by not having a copy of the ESV that was not copyrighted until 2001.

I will agree with you on one point, the KJV does not communicate effectively with airheads like you, and never has.
You seem to delight in giving me advice,allow me to give you advice. leave your intellectual hat on the hat rack and read the KJV which I am confident you have never read. I am confident that the Scholars who wrote the KJV were much more fluid in Greek than you are. The Holy Spirit is not an intellectual He is an interpreter of the Word of God, and God has made sure the KJV is not beyond understanding by any level of intellect. However, and this is the most important point; no one can understand the KJV unless the Holy Spirit interprets it for them, so if you cannot understand the KJV you know why.
The KJV has been around over four hundred years and for four hundred years there has been those like you attempting to debunk it. If the world exist four hundred years from now, which I doubt, the KJV will still be on book shelves next to dusty shelves where ESV bibles once occupied.
Although you make me tired, it is a pleasure chatting with you. We are jumping out of different Airplanes, (I use to be a Skydiver). but hopeful we can come together before we hit the ground.

Your arrogance and self-righteousness are amazing. Since you consider yourself so enlightened, why is it that your response is so bereft of the fruit of the Holy Spirit?

 

[Miri]

First of all, I do not, or will I ever attempt to gain any credibility with you. As far as given reference to "Know the truth and the truth shall make you free." I only use quotes from the Bible assuming that those to whom I am addressing will know where the passage is. I do not use quotes from fictitious literature. As far as reading, I have spent over thirty years reading and studying the Bible (I have over twenty translations of bibles on my computer and all but one are under the title FICTION. I have a Greek Bible, and a Greek Interlinear Bible, but I have total confidence that the Scholars that wrote the KJV were far more fluid in Greek than we are and I have total confidence in their work. I also have about over thirty Christian related books and I would gladly send you a list of them, but they would probable all be Greek to you. I certainly do not need a condescending lecture from you. I am sure great men of God like Charles Spurgeon, Billy Sunday, Billy Graham, and many many other great preachers who brought millions of lost souls to the Cross of Christ were handicapped by not having a copy of the ESV that was not copyrighted until 2001.

I will agree with you on one point, the KJV does not communicate effectively with airheads like you, and never has.
You seem to delight in giving me advice,allow me to give you advice. leave your intellectual hat on the hat rack and read the KJV which I am confident you have never read. I am confident that the Scholars who wrote the KJV were much more fluid in Greek than you are. The Holy Spirit is not an intellectual He is an interpreter of the Word of God, and God has made sure the KJV is not beyond understanding by any level of intellect. However, and this is the most important point; no one can understand the KJV unless the Holy Spirit interprets it for them, so if you cannot understand the KJV you know why.
The KJV has been around over four hundred years and for four hundred years there has been those like you attempting to debunk it. If the world exist four hundred years from now, which I doubt, the KJV will still be on book shelves next to dusty shelves where ESV bibles once occupied.
Although you make me tired, it is a pleasure chatting with you. We are jumping out of different Airplanes, (I use to be a Skydiver). but hopeful we can come together before we hit the ground.

Wow you don't know Angela at all do you.

She is a wonderful person, well educated, knows far more about Hebrew/Greek than most
on here, does work as a hospital chaplain and much much more. How presumptuous you are to think you
know a person just after reading a few sentences in a couple of weeks.

I must admit I don't know you but your words show a deep disrespect for women and you are
definately no gentleman by any stretch of the imagination.

I'm so glad the Holy Spirit is not limited to speaking only Shakespearian Antiquated English.

 

[John146]

Wow you don't know Angela at all do you.

She is a wonderful person, well educated, knows far more about Hebrew/Greek than most
on here, does work as a hospital chaplain and much much more. How presumptuous you are to think you
know a person just after reading a few sentences in a couple of weeks.

I must admit I don't know you but your words show a deep disrespect for women and you are
definately no gentleman by any stretch of the imagination.

I'm so glad the Holy Spirit is not limited to speaking only Shakespearian Antiquated English.

I'm glad the Holy Spirit is not limited to Greek and Hebrew

 

[gb9]

I'm glad the Holy Spirit is not limited to Greek and Hebrew

the Holy Sprit is also not limited to Elizabethan English, modern translations are acceptable to use.

 

[John146]

the Holy Sprit is also not limited to Elizabethan English, modern translations are acceptable to use.

How do I renew my mind in Scripture if I don't have Scripture? The whole debate for me is over the promise God gave to preserve His pure words for all generations. Has God done this and if so, where are they? God never said He would preserve His words in all languages.

 

[posthuman]

((can't believe i'm doing this, because we've already had this exact conversation a dozen times, and it gets nowhere, but stops somewhere between these people's ears and their brain.. but..))

The whole debate for me is over the promise God gave to preserve His pure words for all generations. Has God done this and if so, where are they?

Simple question:

When the Bible is to be translated into simplified Chinese, do we get out an English-to-Chinese dictionary and the KJV and go to work on it?

Or do we get out the best copies of the Greek and Hebrew originals that scholarship can piece together, and translate these into Chinese?

 

[eph610]

People ask me all the time which version or translation of the Bible is best one?!?!?

My reply......................................

The one you will read and keep reading!!!

 

[Yahweh_is_gracious]

People ask me all the time which version or translation of the Bible is best one?!?!?

My reply......................................

The one you will read and keep reading!!!

That is an awesome answer.

This endless debate about what version of a Bible is best in a language that the original documents were never written in is very strange.

 

[hornetguy]

First of all, I do not, or will I ever attempt to gain any credibility with you. As far as given reference to "Know the truth and the truth shall make you free." I only use quotes from the Bible assuming that those to whom I am addressing will know where the passage is. I do not use quotes from fictitious literature. As far as reading, I have spent over thirty years reading and studying the Bible (I have over twenty translations of bibles on my computer and all but one are under the title FICTION. I have a Greek Bible, and a Greek Interlinear Bible, but I have total confidence that the Scholars that wrote the KJV were far more fluid in Greek than we are and I have total confidence in their work. I also have about over thirty Christian related books and I would gladly send you a list of them, but they would probable all be Greek to you. I certainly do not need a condescending lecture from you. I am sure great men of God like Charles Spurgeon, Billy Sunday, Billy Graham, and many many other great preachers who brought millions of lost souls to the Cross of Christ were handicapped by not having a copy of the ESV that was not copyrighted until 2001.

I will agree with you on one point, the KJV does not communicate effectively with airheads like you, and never has.
You seem to delight in giving me advice,allow me to give you advice. leave your intellectual hat on the hat rack and read the KJV which I am confident you have never read. I am confident that the Scholars who wrote the KJV were much more fluid in Greek than you are. The Holy Spirit is not an intellectual He is an interpreter of the Word of God, and God has made sure the KJV is not beyond understanding by any level of intellect. However, and this is the most important point; no one can understand the KJV unless the Holy Spirit interprets it for them, so if you cannot understand the KJV you know why.
The KJV has been around over four hundred years and for four hundred years there has been those like you attempting to debunk it. If the world exist four hundred years from now, which I doubt, the KJV will still be on book shelves next to dusty shelves where ESV bibles once occupied.
Although you make me tired, it is a pleasure chatting with you. We are jumping out of different Airplanes, (I use to be a Skydiver). but hopeful we can come together before we hit the ground.

[SUP] [/SUP]

You need to back off, bucko..

Your arrogance and complete lack of respect for other people will put you on the short path to "banned" camp...to the delight of most of us.

This discussion has been had by many of your betters, and you are embarassing yourself.

 

[author]

Wow you don't know Angela at all do you.

She is a wonderful person, well educated, knows far more about Hebrew/Greek than most
on here, does work as a hospital chaplain and much much more. How presumptuous you are to think you
know a person just after reading a few sentences in a couple of weeks.

I must admit I don't know you but your words show a deep disrespect for women and you are
definately no gentleman by any stretch of the imagination.

I'm so glad the Holy Spirit is not limited to speaking only Shakespearian Antiquated English.

No, I do not know Angela at all. As a mater of fact, I did not pay much attention to whom I was responding to, I thought it was someone else. Even so, my response would have been the same if I had known.
I am sure Angela is a wonderful person and so am I. Angela set the tone by lambasting my credibility. I am very passionate about defending the KJV, because I Know the history of how close this book came to never being created and if had not been for God's intervention Angela would not have to agonize over it's existence. You called me arrogant and condescending and I want deny that if, you will admit doing the same by referring to me as a woman hater even though you don't know me at all.
You accused me of doing the same thing you are doing, but to be honest with you, I will not loose one minute of sleep over it. I m very passionate about defending the KJV and I will never stop defending it if I am the last person in the world to do so. I also have very thick skin so you can throw all the bombs at me you want to.
It's a tough world and whether you are man, woman or a frog, if you can't take the heat stay out of the kitchen. I am comfortable with my relationship with Jesus Christ and in closing, allow me to leave you with something to ponder.
Fifty years ago seventy percent of Americans claimed to be Christians; today it is less than fifty percent. Humanism has infiltrated the churches in America and is an affront to God who ordained the creation of America as a shining light to the rest of the world. America has spit in the face of God and there is no way America will survive unless we turn back to Him, which is not likely. That is what you, Angela, me and the rest of the country should be concerned about rather than what Bible we prefer, but that is subject for a later time.
I am a tough passionate person unbridled when it come to defending something I truly believe in. I do not hate any human being, male or female. The only thing in life I hate is wire coat hangers, and my wife will attest to that.

GOD HELP US ALL

 

[author]

You need to back off, bucko..

Your arrogance and complete lack of respect for other people will put you on the short path to "banned" camp...to the delight of most of us.

This discussion has been had by many of your betters, and you are embarassing yourself.

your admonishment is well received, I thank you for the kick in the backside.