Will you listen to what God has to say about OSAS? Just scriptures?

[Jason0047]

So is that a no? Because if so, I am interested to see you declare it. A repentant heart is not a sinless one.

My declaration does not change the truth that is wthin the Scriptures for all us believvers. Paul essentially says, believers WERE once sinners. They do not stay as sinners.. Paul says, shall we continue in sin so that grace may abound? But by your way of thinking the answer would be a yes? If you do not continue in sin (As Paul tells us to do), then what does that make you?

 

[dcontroversal]

No, this man was professing the same unBiblical mantras that everyone else here has been professing.

So.....doesn't mean he was a believer.......and using him as a "standard" is not right nor does it apply!

 

[notuptome]

No, this man was professing the same unBiblical mantras that everyone else here has been professing.

So you prefer to believe what is said of this man? Big deal. You have already erased all your credibility. Bitterness does that to a man.

At this point you can only engender strife and not edification. Go ahead and take the testimony of men over the testimony of God. I know what God did in my heart and I have no fear of losing my salvation. Nor do I fear going insane and killing a bunch of people.

Make all the accusations you wish but in the end only God knows in these situations. You may think you know but you really do not.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[dcontroversal]

My declaration does not change the truth that is wthin the Scriptures for all us believvers. Paul essentially says, believers WERE once sinners. They do not stay as sinners.. Paul says, shall we continue in sin so that grace may abound? But by your way of thinking the answer would be a yes? If you do not continue in sin (As Paul tells us to do), then what does that make you?

So then your admitting that you don't sin?

 

[blue_ladybug]

believer or not, EVERYONE sins..yes, even saved people sin. It happens everyday, and anyone who says they don't sin anymore is deluding themselves.

 

[Jason0047]

So.....doesn't mean he was a believer.......and using him as a "standard" is not right nor does it apply!

Yes, it does apply. Jesus said we will know false prophets by their fruits. You are preaching the same thing he did; And looked what happend to him.

 

[Jason0047]

My declaration does not change the truth that is wthin the Scriptures for all us believvers. Paul essentially says, believers WERE once sinners. They do not stay as sinners.. Paul says, shall we continue in sin so that grace may abound? But by your way of thinking the answer would be a yes? If you do not continue in sin (As Paul tells us to do), then what does that make you?

Also, I want to add that you want to use 1 John 1:8 against me. If we say we have no sin we deceive ourselves and the truth is not in us. But this is in context to those who say they have fellowship with God and walk in darkness (1 John 1:7). It is a description of the modern day Classic OSAS proponent. Not the OSAS Liite proponent or the Biblical Conditional Salvationist who believes in confessing one's sins as per 1 John 1:9.

 

[Jason0047]

believer or not, EVERYONE sins..yes, even saved people sin. It happens everyday, and anyone who says they don't sin anymore is deluding themselves.

And Paul says, "and such WERE some of you." Paul also says that the unrighteous shall not inherit the Kingdom of God, too.

 

[Viligant_Warrior]

My declaration does not change the truth that is wthin the Scriptures for all us believvers. Paul essentially says, believers WERE once sinners. They do not stay as sinners.. Paul says, shall we continue in sin so that grace may abound? But by your way of thinking the answer would be a yes? If you do not continue in sin (As Paul tells us to do), then what does that make you?

It makes me saved. What this crock makes you is lost. Or how will you twist ""If we say that we have no sin, we are deceiving ourselves and the truth is not in us" (1 John 1:8)?

Don't you dare say, "That's written to unbelievers" because it is not. John begins his epistle by stating that what he has heard and seen from the beginning of his ministry, Whom he touched and knew and Whom was made manifest, he has shared so that those to whom he writes in this letter "so that you too may have fellowship with us" -- and what has partnership has righteousness with lawlessness, or what has darkness to do with light (2 Corinthians 6:14)? John wouldn't be "fellowshiping" with the lost, now would he? So the passage is written to believers, likely John's former church at Ephesus.

So go ahead ... twist away. We all know you will. That's what false prophets and teachers do.

 

[Jason0047]

So then your admitting that you don't sin?

Believers do not sin habitually as a way of life. Read 1 John 3:6, 9. They may not always be perfect. David sure sinned. But he was a man after God's own heart and he did not continue to live a life of habitual sin after he repented of his sins of murder and adultery.

 

[dcontroversal]

Yes, it does apply. Jesus said we will know false prophets by their fruits. You are preaching the same thing he did; And looked what happend to him.

Now you are just lying and accusing me of being like that guy....I didn't teach nor do I teach the same thing so quit lying JASON!

 

[Siberian_Khatru]

Paul essentially says, believers WERE once sinners. They do not stay as sinners..

And yet we all sin, even if inadvertently. The difference is we pursue a different lot and live not for ourselves; i.e. we don't pursue sin. I hate to play context wars with Scripture, though, so to each their own.

Paul says, shall we continue in sin so that grace may abound?

Which is sound reasoning, but irrelevant here.

If you do not continue in sin (As Paul tells us to do), then what does that make you?

There is no "if." We can choose to live in sin or abstain from it. The latter does not suggest we are immune to it.

 

[Jason0047]

It makes me saved. What this crock makes you is lost. Or how will you twist ""If we say that we have no sin, we are deceiving ourselves and the truth is not in us" (1 John 1:8)?

Don't you dare say, "That's written to unbelievers" because it is not. John begins his epistle by stating that what he has heard and seen from the beginning of his ministry, Whom he touched and knew and Whom was made manifest, he has shared so that those to whom he writes in this letter "so that you too may have fellowship with us" -- and what has partnership has righteousness with lawlessness, or what has darkness to do with light (2 Corinthians 6:14)? John wouldn't be "fellowshiping" with the lost, now would he? So the passage is written to believers, likely John's former church at Ephesus.

So go ahead ... twist away. We all know you will. That's what false prophets and teachers do.

Yes, the OSAS proponent who believes they can sin and still be saved (Not the OSAS Lite proponent) is saying they have no sin and they do not need to confess of it because all their sin is forgiven them: past, present, and future. But John says, if we confesss our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. 1 John 1:7 says if we walk in the light as he is in the light, then the blood of Jesus cleanses us from all sin. This is in context to 1 John 2:3-6.

1 John 1:8 is indeed written to believers. It is warning them not to be deceived by the false teaching of the sessionists who thought they could sin and still be saved. John was warning the brethren not to fall for this deception.

 

[Jason0047]

And yet we all sin, even if inadvertently. The difference is we pursue a different lot and live not for ourselves; i.e. we don't pursue sin. I hate to play context wars with Scripture, though, so to each their own.


Which is sound reasoning, but irrelevant here.


There is no "if." We can choose to live in sin or abstain from it. The latter does not suggest we are immune to it.

Jesus said be ye perfect as your Heavenly Father is perfect. If Jesus did not mean that for you, then he would be lying. Scripture also says without holiness, no man shall see the Lord. There are sins that lead unto death, and sins that do not lead unto death (1 John 5:16). Sins that lead unto death are those sins that Paul lists several times in Scripture in relation to those who will not inherit the Kingdom of God. He says, be not deceived. The unrighteous shall not inherit the Kingdom of God. Are you saying that believers can commit sins on Paul's lists of sins that shall not inherit the Kingdom of God and still be saved?

Note: When I say that they will commit these types of sin on Paul's lists, I am referencing those believers who habitually do those sins as a way of life with no repentance or confession and or desire to change (i.e. To have Godly sorrow and repentance).

 

[Jason0047]

Now you are just lying and accusing me of being like that guy....I didn't teach nor do I teach the same thing so quit lying JASON!

You said all sin is forgiven: Past, present, and future. You believe all sin is sin. So this man who believed in Eternal Security is saved according to the two statements that you already said (Which agrees with what he taught). But then you backpedal and say sin is not all the same and admit that no murderer has eternal life abiding within them. What you believe is contradictory. Either you are saved of all sin: past, present, and future, or you are not. As I said before, hate is the equivalent of murder. Have you not hated a brother before?

 

[kennethcadwell]

Ken, I know you are correct regarding some people in life, however, I see absolutely no grace from some people here. No one lives without sin. Though your love for Jesus is quite apparent, do you ever sin? The answer is yes. So receive God's gift for what it is, free and secure. The glass is half full, my Brother.

Nobody has ever been without sin, yes.
And once you accept Jesus as your Lord, you are not magically from day one sin free. This is also a yes.

However from here the bible says through Christ ( Holy Spirit ) all things are possible, so to say from there that a person with the Holy Spirit's guidance can not eventually abstain from all sin would be a false teaching. For if you say a person can not become free of all sin eventually in their walk, then you take away from God's ability and put limitations on Him.

 

[Siberian_Khatru]

Jesus said be ye perfect as your Heavenly Father is perfect. If Jesus did not mean that for you, then he would be lying. Scripture also says without holiness, no man shall see the Lord. There are sins that lead unto death, and sins that do not lead unto death (1 John 5:16). Sins that lead unto death are those sins that Paul lists several times in Scripture in relation to those who will not inherit the Kingdom of God. He says, be not deceived. The unrighteous shall not inherit the Kingdom of God. Are you saying that believers can commit sins on Paul's lists of sins that shall not inherit the Kingdom of God and still be saved?

Note: When I say that they will commit these types of sin on Paul's lists, I am referencing those believers who habitually do those sins as a way of life with no repentance or confession and or desire to change (i.e. To have Godly sorrow and repentance).

Jason, you really don't need to keep beating your head against the wall on this. I think you and I have already found our middle ground:

Believers do not sin habitually as a way of life.Read 1 John 3:6, 9. They may not always be perfect. David sure sinned. But he was a man after God's own heart and he did not continue to live a life of habitual sin after he repented of his sins of murder and adultery.

We sin inadvertently and/or out of weakness, not because we have no regard for the nature of sin and its long haul implications.

 

[Angela53510]

Some and not all people here are essentially saying that you do not need to turn from your sin as a requirement for salvation. One person has already said that you are forgiven of your sins, past, present, and future. Which means you do not need to worry about sin or deal with it. Another has said that repentance is not turning away from sin but it is about turning away from making yourself your own God. But sinning and being your own God is the same thing. Folks here have not been promoting that we must repent or have a Godly sorrow and or forsake sin so as to be classified as a true believer. Folks believe you can be out of fellowship with God (i.e. no doubt because of sin) and still be saved. Yes, I realize there are OSAS Lite Proponents who believe that if you live a habitual life of sin, you are not saved. But most folks here are not holding to that belief. At least not from I can tell.

Name one person in this forum who says that repentance is not essential to being saved. That is part of the entire justification process.

"And Peter said to them, “Repent and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins, and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. [SUP]39 [/SUP]For the promise is for you and for your children and for all who are far off, everyone whom the Lord our God calls to himself.” Acts 2:38-39

Not ONE SINGLE PERSON has said that we have a free pass if we believe in eternal security.

The only one creating straw men every other post and knocking them down is you, Jason.



Those of us who believe in eternal security are saying one thing - Jesus is the one who calls us, and saves us. We do not save ourselves by our works.

"Therefore do not be ashamed of the testimony about our Lord, nor of me his prisoner, but share in suffering for the gospel by the power of God, [SUP]9 [/SUP]who saved us and called us to a holy calling, not because of our works but because of his own purpose and grace, which he gave us in Christ Jesus before the ages began," 1 Tim. 1:8-9

Do you understand that? Not by works!

"For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, [SUP]9 [/SUP]not a result of works, so that no one may boast. [SUP]10 [/SUP]For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand, that we should walk in them." Eph. 2:8-10

Notice how in the above verses, God saves us. IT IS NOT OF OUR OWN DOING! Then, when we are saved, we walk with God, and do the good works he has purposed for our lives!

First comes justification, which is eternal, then sanctification, which is the process of walking with Christ the rest of our life. That includes falling down, confessing our sins, and learning and growing, as we in turn disciple others.

"Finally, then, brothers, we ask and urge you in the Lord Jesus, that as you received from us how you ought to walk and to please God, just as you are doing, that you do so more and more. [SUP]2 [/SUP]For you know what instructions we gave you through the Lord Jesus.[SUP]3[/SUP]For this is the will of God, your sanctification: that you abstain from sexual immorality;[SUP]4 [/SUP]that each one of you know how to control his own body in holiness and honor, [SUP]5 [/SUP]not inthe passion of lust like the Gentiles who do not know God; [SUP]6 [/SUP]that no one transgress andwrong his brother in this matter, because the Lord is an avenger in all these things, as we told you beforehand and solemnly warned you. [SUP]7 [/SUP]For God has not called us for impurity, but in holiness" 1 Thess. 4:1-7

Notice that our SANCTIFICATION includes staying away from sexual immorality, lust, offending our brother. This is only a partial list of the way God would have us to walk.

"Or do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: neither the sexually immoral, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor men who practice homosexuality, [SUP]10 [/SUP]nor thieves, nor the greedy, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God. [SUP]11 [/SUP]And such were some of you. But you were washed, you were sanctified, you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God." 1 Cor. 6:9-11

Please note that although we were sinners before God saved us, he has justified us, and sanctified us. This is NOT about some kind of ethical development but rather God setting us apart, and making us holy. It means "you were claimed by God as his own and made a member of His holy people."

"And by that will we have been sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.[SUP]11 [/SUP]And every priest stands daily at his service, offering repeatedly the same sacrifices,which can never take away sins. [SUP]12 [/SUP]But when Christ had offered for all time a single sacrifice for sins, he sat down at the right hand of God, [SUP]13 [/SUP]waiting from that time until his enemies should be made a footstool for his feet. [SUP]14 [/SUP]For by a single offering he has perfected for all time those who are being sanctified." Hebrews 10:10-14

 

[psychomom]

Jason, i imagine you so stressed out and frightened...

i feel for ya, bro.

 

[gb9]

Jesus said be ye perfect as your Heavenly Father is perfect. If Jesus did not mean that for you, then he would be lying. Scripture also says without holiness, no man shall see the Lord. There are sins that lead unto death, and sins that do not lead unto death (1 John 5:16). Sins that lead unto death are those sins that Paul lists several times in Scripture in relation to those who will not inherit the Kingdom of God. He says, be not deceived. The unrighteous shall not inherit the Kingdom of God. Are you saying that believers can commit sins on Paul's lists of sins that shall not inherit the Kingdom of God and still be saved?

Note: When I say that they will commit these types of sin on Paul's lists, I am referencing those believers who habitually do those sins as a way of life with no repentance or confession and or desire to change (i.e. To have Godly sorrow and repentance).

I would say this to the last part of that: then this person is not now a believer.