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You do not undestand what I am saying.
If you are the one judging if they are teaching you errors or not, where is the submisison. I am still waiting for the definiton of the church submission. You ask if you should submit to female pastor, but I still do not know in what.
S
susi
Guest
Well, from what I understand submitting to a pastor is being led by him, permitting him to feed you biblically and spiritually with advice, being rebuked or even disciplined if necessary. This is because you accept firstly that its a commandment from God do do so, and that the pastor has all the biblical requirements to be one.
IMHO, I question why we can't seem to agree that the Bible still says, according to the Holy Spirit through the Apostle Paul that women are to be silent in church meetings. Now I do believe that upstanding Christian women can successfully Council other women in there walk but only with oversight of a male Church leader. I do not believe we find any evidence in the New Testament of Jesus intending for women to have leadership positions. We do have plenty of evidence that we are all supposed to minister the word of Truth to the lost and we were supposed to encourage one another in our walk with the Lord. I believe we are in peril as the church when we have reached an age where many women will not accept any instruction from any Christian men but only Christian women in an age where women in general in the west have become the most rebellious and the history of the world. The Jezebel and Delilah Spirits are alive and well within the church and are wreaking havoc. God bless greatly those sisters who are of a gentle and quiet spirit which is of great worth in God's sight. I do absolutely believe that God can use anyone to encourage anyone as long as they are fellow believers but as far as leadership positions these are supposed to be held by men. I do believe women can act as teachers of children and I believe that they can also minister to women but only with male leadership oversight. We can try to take this case and do it a civil rights battle if we want but the fact is God's ways are not our ways and he knows us better than we know ourselves and he knows his creation better than we know his creation. I have been affiliated with several Ministries that had women in leadership positions and it never seem to work well. One particular Ministry moodiness and the ambition of the pastor's wife as a lady pastor cause the charge to split and weaken at least twice that I know of.
S
susi
Guest
Should We Submit to Our Church Leadership?Biblical Authority Devotional: Authority and the Church, Part 8
by David Wright on February 2, 2011
David Wright, AiG–U.S., explains that believers are instructed to submit to their church leadership.
Obey your leaders and submit to them, for they keep watch over your souls as those who will give an account. Let them do this with joy and not with grief, for this would be unprofitable for you. (Hebrews 13:17, NASB)
Today’s big question: should we submit to our church leadership?
In short, the answer to this question is “Yes.” Of course, this would only apply if the church we attend is one that follows the Bible as the ultimate authority.Hebrews 13:17 makes it quite clear what we must do. So let’s take a closer look at this verse and unpack it.
The first thing this verse tells us is to obey our leaders. What does it mean to obey our leaders? Well, if leaders of our church are following the precepts of Christ, it is as if we were obeying Christ Himself.
The Great Commission is something every pastor and church member needs to take seriously. And the second part is often forgotten. In the second half of the Great Commission, Jesus instructs His disciples to teach their followers “to obey everything I have commanded you” (Matthew 28:20, NIV). So He commands all His followers to make disciples. We are also supposed to teach believers to obey the commands of Christ. And so the duty of our pastors and other church leaders is to ensure that the congregation is indeed following the Great Commission.
If our church leaders follow in the footsteps of Christ, then their teachings should not be burdensome, because the commands of God are not burdensome (1 John 5:3).
In the next part of Hebrews 13:17, the author tells us to submit to our church leaders. Simply put, we are not to rebel against them and cause division within the church. Even though there may be times we do not agree with them completely, we still must learn to trust their judgment and decisions. If we believe they are in sin, then we must follow the biblical guidelines to resolve the situation set forth inMatthew 18:15–17, 1 Timothy 5:19, and other places.
Our church leaders must always keep in mind that they are charged by God to watch over our souls, and He will hold them accountable for their ministry. This is a huge responsibility, not to be taken lightly. Surely this responsibility weighs on their hearts day and night.
It is also profitable for the congregation to make sure that those in our leadership enjoy what they do. Although we may not profit in a material sense, we will profit spiritually from the joy they take in leading us. When the leader is joyous, so also will be the followers.
Today’s big idea: be submissive to your church leaders.
What to pray: ask God to help your church leaders honor Him and to assist you in your submission to their leadership.
by David Wright on February 2, 2011
David Wright, AiG–U.S., explains that believers are instructed to submit to their church leadership.
Obey your leaders and submit to them, for they keep watch over your souls as those who will give an account. Let them do this with joy and not with grief, for this would be unprofitable for you. (Hebrews 13:17, NASB)
Today’s big question: should we submit to our church leadership?
In short, the answer to this question is “Yes.” Of course, this would only apply if the church we attend is one that follows the Bible as the ultimate authority.Hebrews 13:17 makes it quite clear what we must do. So let’s take a closer look at this verse and unpack it.
The first thing this verse tells us is to obey our leaders. What does it mean to obey our leaders? Well, if leaders of our church are following the precepts of Christ, it is as if we were obeying Christ Himself.
The Great Commission is something every pastor and church member needs to take seriously. And the second part is often forgotten. In the second half of the Great Commission, Jesus instructs His disciples to teach their followers “to obey everything I have commanded you” (Matthew 28:20, NIV). So He commands all His followers to make disciples. We are also supposed to teach believers to obey the commands of Christ. And so the duty of our pastors and other church leaders is to ensure that the congregation is indeed following the Great Commission.
If our church leaders follow in the footsteps of Christ, then their teachings should not be burdensome, because the commands of God are not burdensome (1 John 5:3).
In the next part of Hebrews 13:17, the author tells us to submit to our church leaders. Simply put, we are not to rebel against them and cause division within the church. Even though there may be times we do not agree with them completely, we still must learn to trust their judgment and decisions. If we believe they are in sin, then we must follow the biblical guidelines to resolve the situation set forth inMatthew 18:15–17, 1 Timothy 5:19, and other places.
Our church leaders must always keep in mind that they are charged by God to watch over our souls, and He will hold them accountable for their ministry. This is a huge responsibility, not to be taken lightly. Surely this responsibility weighs on their hearts day and night.
It is also profitable for the congregation to make sure that those in our leadership enjoy what they do. Although we may not profit in a material sense, we will profit spiritually from the joy they take in leading us. When the leader is joyous, so also will be the followers.
Today’s big idea: be submissive to your church leaders.
What to pray: ask God to help your church leaders honor Him and to assist you in your submission to their leadership.
S
susi
Guest
Should We Submit to Our Church Leadership?Biblical Authority Devotional: Authority and the Church, Part 8
by David Wright on February 2, 2011
David Wright, AiG–U.S., explains that believers are instructed to submit to their church leadership.
Obey your leaders and submit to them, for they keep watch over your souls as those who will give an account. Let them do this with joy and not with grief, for this would be unprofitable for you. (Hebrews 13:17, NASB)
Today’s big question: should we submit to our church leadership?
In short, the answer to this question is “Yes.” Of course, this would only apply if the church we attend is one that follows the Bible as the ultimate authority.Hebrews 13:17 makes it quite clear what we must do. So let’s take a closer look at this verse and unpack it.
The first thing this verse tells us is to obey our leaders. What does it mean to obey our leaders? Well, if leaders of our church are following the precepts of Christ, it is as if we were obeying Christ Himself.
The Great Commission is something every pastor and church member needs to take seriously. And the second part is often forgotten. In the second half of the Great Commission, Jesus instructs His disciples to teach their followers “to obey everything I have commanded you” (Matthew 28:20, NIV). So He commands all His followers to make disciples. We are also supposed to teach believers to obey the commands of Christ. And so the duty of our pastors and other church leaders is to ensure that the congregation is indeed following the Great Commission.
If our church leaders follow in the footsteps of Christ, then their teachings should not be burdensome, because the commands of God are not burdensome (1 John 5:3).
In the next part of Hebrews 13:17, the author tells us to submit to our church leaders. Simply put, we are not to rebel against them and cause division within the church. Even though there may be times we do not agree with them completely, we still must learn to trust their judgment and decisions. If we believe they are in sin, then we must follow the biblical guidelines to resolve the situation set forth inMatthew 18:15–17, 1 Timothy 5:19, and other places.
Our church leaders must always keep in mind that they are charged by God to watch over our souls, and He will hold them accountable for their ministry. This is a huge responsibility, not to be taken lightly. Surely this responsibility weighs on their hearts day and night.
It is also profitable for the congregation to make sure that those in our leadership enjoy what they do. Although we may not profit in a material sense, we will profit spiritually from the joy they take in leading us. When the leader is joyous, so also will be the followers.
Today’s big idea: be submissive to your church leaders.
What to pray: ask God to help your church leaders honor Him and to assist you in your submission to their leadership.
There aren't any male pastors in the NT either. There isn't a single person, male or female, named in the entire NT who is identified as a "pastor". The idea that woman cannot be pastors because there aren't female pastors in the NT is fallacious, because the same applies to men.
The typical argument is that Timothy and Titus, and perhaps James, were effectively local church pastors. The NT doesn't say so, so the argument continues that they functioned in the same way that modern pastors do. The NT doesn't say that either. When anyone suggests that Phoebe, Priscilla, or Junia probably functioned as pastors in the modern sense, the argument gets flipped because the word "pastor" isn't used of them. A little consistency would go a long way here.
Welcome to CC... I haven't seen your name here previously.
Respectfully, your argument is rambling and full of rabbit trails, irrelevancies and unbalanced commentary. 1 Corinthians 14:34-35 is one of the most contested passages in the NT. That is why we can't just agree on it. It doesn't jibe with the rest of what Paul wrote, it isn't consistent with Jesus' elevation of the status of women, and it isn't supported by any "law" to which it supposedly alludes.
S
susi
Guest
Pastor/Elder/Shepard are used as synonyms. Have you read Acts? How the 1st churches were planted with elders?
Elder comes from either "espiskopos" or "presbuteros". Pastor comes from "poimen. They are not synonymous. How they are used today is a different issue. And yes, of course I have read Acts... several times, as I have done with the entire Bible.
S
susi
Guest
They are not strictly synonyms when u go to a dictionary. But when we are talking about the leaders of a church, the elders, leaders, pastors, shepards...we are talking about the leaders. You won't find the word leader either, but does that mean there weren't any in the NT?Elder comes from either "espiskopos" or "presbuteros". Pastor comes from "poimen. They are not synonymous. How they are used today is a different issue. And yes, of course I have read Acts... several times, as I have done with the entire Bible.
I am confident that a dictionary of koine Greek produced around 30 AD (we know of none) would not have all these words as synonyms. As I said already, how they are used today is a different issue.
"Leader" is found in Matthew 23:10, at least in the NASB. The context of that verse would suggest that the whole concept of ecclesial leadership as we have it today is not, in fact, what Jesus intended.
W
whatev
Guest
If you wouldn't, does it matter? If you're church wouldn't, why is that your church? I've never been a member of a church who wouldn't listen. Of course, I've walked out of a few churches, because I couldn't be a member.
W
whatev
Guest
I submit to my husband. It doesn't mean he is perfect or errorless, (although he is annoyingly right most of the time), but when there are decisions to be made, and after talking back and forth we cannot agree, he is the decider. That's when I submit.
I've submitted to bosses, who were much more often wrong than my husband, (and, of course, they don't have to be wrong very often to be wrong more often than my annoyingly-right husband.) If they tell me to do something a certain way, even if I know how to do it better, I will do it their way. But if they will have me do something wrong, not merely the wrong way, I stop submitting. I have a brain. I have morals. I answer to the Lord.
I've submitted to pastors. If they tell me something wrong, I will first find out if it is wrong. And once I know it is wrong, I will talk to DH about it to find out how to proceed. If it is the wrong way to go with the church, it is likely we will talk to him alone. He neither has to agree nor disagree, and we will submit to his decision. If it is the wrong way to tie his tie or put on his shoes, he can surely keep doing those things wrong. If it is the wrong way to understand the Bible, we will talk to him. And, if he refuses to understand the Bible from larger context, (which is the only way to understand the Bible), then DH and I talk out what to do next. Usually what to do next is find a better church.
What problems are you having with this concept of submission? Are you thinking we submit blindly?
W
whatev
Guest
So far, her church agrees with her, so she doesn't need to find another church.
W
whatev
Guest
If it's the women in the church causing "The Jezebel and Delilah Spirits," what can I call men in the church who tend to think women are lesser than they are? Because you're reeking of it.
if i wouldn't listen to mary magdaline it most certanly would matter. if a church we were in wouldn't hear her i'd walk out with you!
W
whatev
Guest
If Peter wasn't the pastor, then why did Paul waste his time arguing with him, and then going for agreement?
pastor isn't a title, it means shepard. people use the word in a way it dosn't mean.