Women Pastors? Help me.

[Magenta]

The fact that Paul invokes the Law in regard to the problem with the fairer sex suggests that he is really dealing with unrighteous women in the Church....maybe even infiltrators.

The cultural context of the letters has been put forward, and some here have claimed that the historicity and knowledge of those times and places have been fabricated! They want to deny that what is known of the actual context of the letters has any bearing on what is said in the letters. There are, after all, none so blind as those who refuse to see. Still they want to tell us that context is important. Hmmm...

 

[trofimus]

The honourable women mentioned in Acts 13:50 and Acts 17:12 may have been godly women of some authority. The word translated as honourable "(eusxḗmōn) is used in Koine Greek of a person who properly uses influence, especially by serving in a high (respected) position" (Strong's Concordance).

"But the Jewish leaders incited the God-fearing women of high standing and the leading men of the city."
Acts 13:50
"As a result, many of them believed, as did also a number of prominent Greek women and many Greek men."
Acts 17:12


I am sorry to disappoint you, this is not about their standing in the church, but in the society of the town, probably because of the riches they had.

 

[StanJ]

It is not biblical for a woman to be an elder of the church (or a Deacon).

So you have never in your life read Romans 16:1?

 

[Spurgeoncy]

Well, there is no doubt that the Church in Corinth was a bit of a madhouse, plus doctrine wars

11 1 I Would to God ye could bear with me a little in my folly: and indeed bear with me.
2 For I am jealous over you with godly jealousy: for I have espoused you to one husband, that I may present you as a chaste virgin to Christ.
3 But I fear, lest by any means, as the serpent beguiled Eve through his subtilty, so your minds should be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ.
4 For if he that cometh preacheth another Jesus, whom we have not preached, or if ye receive another spirit, which ye have not received, or another gospel, which ye have not accepted, ye might well bear with him.

Is Paul actually saying something to the effect that this business of women shutting up is doctrinal Martial Law?

 

[StanJ]

Its good to realize that the English word "deacon" has its historical church meaning.
In Greek, however, it means "servant" and in the context it can mean any service imaginable. Not necessarily the one you imagine for the 21st century English "deacon".

It's still translated as 'deacon' because that's what the word is in Greek. διάκονος (diakonos)
The meaning doesn't change the word Paul uses in 1st Timothy 3.
You should also take the heart with Paul says in 2 Timothy 2:14.
By the way the Greek word for Servant is παῖς (pais)

 

[trofimus]

It's still translated as 'deacon' because that's what the word is in Greek. διάκονος (diakonos)
The meaning doesn't change the word Paul uses in 1st Timothy 3.
you should also take the heart with Paul says in 2 Timothy 2:14.

[h=2][/h]

And you can also translate the Greek "logos" as "word" and so lose every possible meaning and aspect of the Greek philosophical term "logos".

So what? We must look not for the similarities between the Greek and English spelling, but for the original use.

 

[samuel23]

Magenta, are you a Pastor of a church? Just wondering, you don't have to answer. You are striving so hard to make a silk purse out of a sow"s ear, you must have a great emotional stake in the outcome. You are missing a fundamental point(on purpose I suspect) that even if you convinced all of us that a woman can have authority over men in the church, yet you would not have convinced God. We don't really matter all that much, on the other hand, you will one day stand before God and explain your teaching position on this subject, do you really feel comfortable enough with your presentations to present them to the Lord?

 

[StanJ]

And you can also translate the Greek "logos" as "word" and so lose every possible meaning and aspect of the Greek philosophical term "logos".
So what? We must look not for the similarities between the Greek and English spelling, but for the original use.

Sadly you seem to think you're better at this Greek translation stuff than the people who are actually credentialed and doing it.
All you're doing is striving about words to support your own point of view not exegeting the Bible the way you're supposed to do.

 

[StanJ]

Magenta, are you a Pastor of a church? Just wondering, you don't have to answer. You are striving so hard to make a silk purse out of a sow"s ear, you must have a great emotional stake in the outcome. You are missing a fundamental point(on purpose I suspect) that even if you convinced all of us that a woman can have authority over men in the church, yet you would not have convinced God. We don't really matter all that much, on the other hand, you will one day stand before God and explain your teaching position on this subject, do you really feel comfortable enough with your presentations to present them to the Lord?

That's a pretty judgmental post for someone who can't even corroborate his own position with scripture. This type of self-righteous response is typical of those who are blind to what the scripture actually says.

 

[planitsoon]

I would advise to get the book from Jon Zens: What's with Paul and women. He unlocks the cultural background and why Paul wrote that. Our narcisistic generation applies always everything left right and centre to themselves. When Paul said ALL the churches it also doesn't auto mean that he refers to all the churches he planted but to the churches in that particular city where the problem was as when Paul and Silas came to, got to a certain town (forgot which one it was now) but its written, "the whole church met at one place it says". There were many house churches in one city as usual but we read again through 21st century western eyes ;-)

 

[Magenta]

Magenta, are you a Pastor of a church? Just wondering, you don't have to answer. You are striving so hard to make a silk purse out of a sow"s ear, you must have a great emotional stake in the outcome. You are missing a fundamental point(on purpose I suspect) that even if you convinced all of us that a woman can have authority over men in the church, yet you would not have convinced God. We don't really matter all that much, on the other hand, you will one day stand before God and explain your teaching position on this subject, do you really feel comfortable enough with your presentations to present them to the Lord?

Samuel, God has already convinced the writers of Scripture that women at times surely did have God-given authority over men, grown men. Jesus appointed Mary Magdalene to be the first to proclaim the gospel of the living risen Lord. I would challenge you to find one place where I have said a woman should pastor a church. I could likewise say that you seem to have an iron in the fire to keep women pushed down and in positions of subservience to men whether they are married to those men or not. It has been pointed out multiple times that the Scriptures pointed to by the naysayers largely address married couples. They plainly contradict Paul's vehement abhorrence to anyone being forced back under the law once they have been born again of the Holy Spirit of God. When I look at the whole counsel of God I see something other than you do. I am not a pastor. I would not want to be a pastor either. You can keep your sow's ear

 

[samuel23]

Megenta, I don't mind keeping that sow's ear as long as God has given me the ability to know that it is not a silk purse like you seem to want to think that it is. My job is to point out what the scriptures are actually saying and warn folks of the consequences of disobeying a command that God has made clear to us. It is very important that we recognize the spirit that we are following, there are many false spirits in the world claiming to be the Spirit of God. The Spirit of God would never led a person to strive to change the clear command that God gave the church through Paul about men being the leaders in the church. About married women, it is obvious that Paul assumed that most adult women in the church would be married because he told them to ask their husbands at home. The same would be applied to single women except they would ask their fathers at home. I don't see this as a grievous commandment.

 

[Magenta]

Megenta, I don't mind keeping that sow's ear as long as God has given me the ability to know that it is not a silk purse like you seem to want to think that it is. My job is to point out what the scriptures are actually saying and warn folks of the consequences of disobeying a command that God has made clear to us. It is very important that we recognize the spirit that we are following, there are many false spirits in the world claiming to be the Spirit of God. The Spirit of God would never led a person to strive to change the clear command that God gave the church through Paul about men being the leaders in the church. About married women, it is obvious that Paul assumed that most adult women in the church would be married because he told them to ask their husbands at home. The same would be applied to single women except they would ask their fathers at home. I don't see this as a grievous commandment.

No, I have no interest in your sow's ear, really! Nor am I interested in your thinking I can't tell the difference between a sow's ear and a silk purse. Would you recognize silk if you saw it? I would. I know the difference between silk and any number of other fabrics. Do you? None of them look like a sow's ear to me You seem to be willfully blind considering the fact that Scripture plainly shows that various women have been God ordained to rule and have authority over men, to teach, to carry the gospel message etc. That is certainly your prerogative. Jesus is my Lord and Savior, not you, and not verses taken out of context from Paul's epistles. My Lord and savior chose a woman to be the first to proclaim the gospel of the risen living Lord. Your claim that adult women need to be under the authority of their earthly fathers is likewise ludicrous. I am a sixty one year old woman and my earthly father has been dead and gone for almost forty years.

 

[samuel23]

You cannot find in scripture where God ordained any woman to have authority over men in the church. That is the discussion, not, have women ever been in authority over men, of course they have, all men had mothers, teachers,whatever, bosses, but IN THE CHURCH God has said that MEN SHOULD LEAD.

 

[Dino246]

You cannot find in scripture where God ordained any woman to have authority over men in the church. That is the discussion, not, have women ever been in authority over men, of course they have, all men had mothers, teachers,whatever, bosses, but IN THE CHURCH God has said that MEN SHOULD LEAD.

Actually, the discussion, according to the OP, is whether women can be pastors ("poiemen"... shepherds). "Pastor" is one of many gifts given to the Church for edification and growth. I know many women who are gifted as pastors, whether or not they hold a title or a position of authority.

There isn't a single place in Scripture which says that men (only) should lead in the Church. You're misrepresenting Scripture and starting to invent things which it doesn't say. You're also shouting (all caps). It seems that you're getting frustrated and angry. Perhaps you should step away from this conversation.

 

[HisHolly]

Pease read Luke 2:36-39.... You'll see quite clearly that Anna a prophetess spoke to all who were in the temple... Let's see you all wiggle out of this

You cannot find in scripture where God ordained any woman to have authority over men in the church. That is the discussion, not, have women ever been in authority over men, of course they have, all men had mothers, teachers,whatever, bosses, but IN THE CHURCH God has said that MEN SHOULD LEAD.

 

[StanJ]

You cannot find in scripture where God ordained any woman to have authority over men in the church. That is the discussion, not, have women ever been in authority over men, of course they have, all men had mothers, teachers,whatever, bosses, but IN THE CHURCH God has said that MEN SHOULD LEAD.

and you cannot seem to get anything right. Read Judges 4&5.

 

[trofimus]

Pease read Luke 2:36-39.... You'll see quite clearly that Anna a prophetess spoke to all who were in the temple... Let's see you all wiggle out of this

"Coming forward at that moment, she gave thanks to God and spoke about the Child to all who were waiting for the redemption of Jerusalem."

1. There is nothing that says women should be in the teaching/leading position in the church.

2. We do not follow historical events, we follow what is said to us to follow. Is it ok for a man to have hundreds of wives? David had. So the fact that something happened is not a rule to follow.

3. Its quite impossible to get the impression that she was teaching during the Jewish service from the verse you posted. She was just talking to people in Jerusalm, not teaching officialy in the temple. Only priests could do that.

 

[StanJ]

"Coming forward at that moment, she gave thanks to God and spoke about the Child to all who were waiting for the redemption of Jerusalem."

1. There is nothing that says women should be in the teaching/leading position in the church.

2. We do not follow historical events, we follow what is said to us to follow. Is it ok for a man to have hundreds of wives? David had. So the fact that something happened is not a rule to follow.

3. Its quite impossible to get the impression that she was teaching during the Jewish service from the verse you posted. She was just talking to people in Jerusalm, not teaching officialy in the temple. Only priests could do that.

There is nothing that says a woman should not be teaching in the church
She was a prophetess and taught the people. She was in the temple to teach people about the coming savior.
Of course we follow historical events because that's how we knew that Jesus fulfilled over 600 promises made about him in the Old Testament.

 

[trofimus]

There is nothing that says a woman should not be teaching in the church
She was a prophetess and taught the people. She was in the temple to teach people about the coming savior.
Of course we follow historical events because that's how we knew that Jesus fulfilled over 600 promises made about him in the Old Testament.

Reread my post. Everything is already answered there.