Women Pastors? Help me.

[StanJ]

Reread my post. Everything is already answered there.

Well if you're going to take that tact then reread everything I posted here to date but sadly I doubt it will get through your mindset.

 

[StanJ]

This kind of a discussion, I believe, tends to bring forth what a person TRUELY believes about God. What we truly believe about God will be made manifest in a situation such as this because you have a clear and in context command from God with TWO examples, so there is no possible way one could miss the meaning. If you TRUELY believe God inspired Paul to write those two places in scripture then you have no choice but to obey them, to do otherwise would be to disobey God. Here they are. 1Cor 14:34 let your women keep silence in the churches for it is not permitted unto them to speak, but to be under obedience, for it is a shame for women to speak in the church..I write unto you the commands of God. 1Tim let the woman learn in silence with all subjection, but I suffer not a woman to teach nor to usurp authority over the man. The very least one can get out of this is that God wants the men to led in church.

Are you sure you don't want a cracker?

 

[StanJ]

nope, but a "pastor" in the sense that churches use would definitely not be a person who would keep silent as the scriptures say.
And no not 1 leader in a congregation. Christ is head of the church, Elders (plural) govern each congregation of the church.

That may be your experience but not every church had more than one Elder back then and even today.

 

[KJV1611]

Good morning Jerry. That is the thing though, because there are clearly many verses that contradict, straight from the pen of Paul no less. There is neither male nor female in Christ Jesus. We are no longer under the law. Yes, the sword of Truth cuts deep but it goes both ways. God bless you as you move through the days of your life

You are a female gentile in Christ and I am a male gentile in Christ.... so that verse isn't talking about OUR BODIES. There is neither male nor female in the CHRIST that we have put on, but OUR BODIES are still male and female.

Galatians 3:26-29 KJV
For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus.
[27] For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.
[28] There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.
[29] And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.

 

[StanJ]

Out of curiosity, does anyone have a scriptural definition for the office of "pastor" ?

There isn't one.

 

[KJV1611]

There isn't one.

Maybe this one?

Jeremiah 3:15 KJV
And I will give you pastors according to mine heart, which shall feed you with knowledge and understanding.

 

[StanJ]

Please show me a scripture that indicates that the assemblies should have ONE leader, or "head pastor/elder/overseer"....
I have never seen a scripture that indicates that.

What exactly do you think 'overseer' is?

 

[StanJ]

Maybe this one?
Jeremiah 3:15 KJV
And I will give you pastors according to mine heart, which shall feed you with knowledge and understanding.

If you insist on continuing to use the KJV then you will continue to get false information as it is a subpar translation.
The Hebrew is properly rendered as 'leader' not 'pastor'.

 

[KJV1611]

If you insist on continuing to use the KJV then you will continue to get false information as it is a subpar translation.
The Hebrew is properly rendered as 'leader' not 'pastor'.

This is Strong's opinion, where did you get your opinion from?

רָעָהrâʻâh, raw-aw'; a primitive root; to tend a flock; i.e. pasture it; intransitively, to graze (literally or figuratively); generally to rule; by extension, to associate with (as a friend):—× break, companion, keep company with, devour, eat up, evil entreat, feed, use as a friend, make friendship with, herdman, keep (sheep) (-er), pastor, shearing house, shepherd, wander, waste.

 

[Dino246]

no you didn't, you made that comment toward samuel23, but I'm sure you have the same thoughts toward me, and thats ok

Humble apologies! I inadvertently attributed your comments to samuel23... my bad!

 

[StanJ]

This is Strong's opinion, where did you get your opinion from?
רָעָהrâʻâh, raw-aw'; a primitive root; to tend a flock; i.e. pasture it; intransitively, to graze (literally or figuratively); generally to rule; by extension, to associate with (as a friend):—× break, companion, keep company with, devour, eat up, evil entreat, feed, use as a friend, make friendship with, herdman, keep (sheep) (-er), pastor, shearing house, shepherd, wander, waste.

These are English connotations of the Hebrew word and as such the most appropriate one given the context being used in Jeremiah is to rule, in essence to lead or be a leader.

 

[KJV1611]

These are English connotations of the Hebrew word and as such the most appropriate one given the context being used in Jeremiah is to rule, in essence to lead or be a leader.

Are you sure? Pastors FEEDING knowledge and understanding.... doesn't that sound more like a shepherd taking care of sheep? Also why didn't all of the other major translations translate the word as leader?

Jeremiah 3:15 KJV
And I will give you pastors according to mine heart, which shall feed you with knowledge and understanding.

 

[KJV1611]

And as far as the qualifications for deacons, the passage in 1 Tim. 3 has also been very poorly translated. For one thing, the word "autos" (αὐτὸς) which is a close to the pronoun, HE, as you can get in Greek, does NOT appear at all in verses 1-7.

Granted, in verse 1 "man" is not mentioned, but the KJV always fills in the missing pieces so that the meaning is crystal clear.

Verse 2 - aner is a man and gyne is a woman.... the HUSBAND of one WIFE. Context of the qualifications of a bishop in ALL of 1 Timothy 3 - A MAN.

Verse 4 teknon - Man is not mentioned, but ALL translation add HE and HIS.

Verse 5 eitis - Not male specific but ALL translations add A MAN or HIS. Idios - not male specific but ALL translations add HE.

Verse 6 - Empipto - Not male specific but ALL translations add HE.

Verse 7 - Autos - Not male specific but ALL translations add HE.

Verse 11 - The deacons WIVES - Even so must their wives be grave, not slanderers, sober, faithful in all things.

 

[StanJ]

Are you sure? Pastors FEEDING knowledge and understanding.... doesn't that sound more like a shepherd taking care of sheep? Also why didn't all of the other major translations translate the word as leader?
Jeremiah 3:15 KJV
And I will give you pastors according to mine heart, which shall feed you with knowledge and understanding.

I am sure that it is properly rendered as;
I will give you leaders who will be faithful to me. They will lead you with knowledge and insight.
Besides, let's stick to the issue here which is what the New Testament says about pastors, not the Old.

 

[KJV1611]

I am sure that it is properly rendered as;
I will give you leaders who will be faithful to me. They will lead you with knowledge and insight.

Where are you getting that from, I haven't seen any translation say leader.

 

[StanJ]

Granted, in verse 1 "man" is not mentioned, but the KJV always fills in the missing pieces so that the meaning is crystal clear.

Verse 2 - aner is a man and gyne is a woman.... the HUSBAND of one WIFE. Context of the qualifications of a bishop in ALL of 1 Timothy 3 - A MAN.

Verse 4 teknon - Man is not mentioned, but ALL translation add HE and HIS.

Verse 5 eitis - Not male specific but ALL translations add A MAN or HIS. Idios - not male specific but ALL translations add HE.

Verse 6 - Empipto - Not male specific but ALL translations add HE.

Verse 7 - Autos - Not male specific but ALL translations add HE.

Verse 11 - The deacons WIVES - Even so must their wives be grave, not slanderers, sober, faithful in all things.

Then why was Phoebe a deacon and acceptable to Paul?

 

[StanJ]

Where are you getting that from, I haven't seen any translation say leader.

You don't read any translation other than the KJV nor do you study any other language than the KJV so how would you know? When the KJV Bible says "study to shew yourself approved", it doesn't mean the KJV itself, it means the original language. If you refuse to use the superior Modern English translations over the KJV then you reap the consequences.

 

[samuel23]

There are verses that may SEEM to contradict, if we believe both verses then we can see the truth, if we choose to believe one verse and deny the other verse then we will be in error. There is neither gender, race, or social status in Christ...this means that God accepts us equally regardless of gender, race, or social status, that does NOT mean that God does not recognize gender, race, and social status, because the rest of the bible points out that He does, and why shouldn't He, because gender, race, and social status are REALITIES. When you question the validity of Paul you expose why you are willing to reject his clear instructions. God can accept all people equally regardless of their gender, yet God can command that men lead in a church...both can be true.

 

[KJV1611]

Then why was Phoebe a deacon and acceptable to Paul?

My bible doesn't say Phebe was a deacon. What a contradiction that would be, in one place a deacon can only be a man and then in another place it calls Phebe a deacon... no way. The inerrant word of God does not contradict itself.

 

[KJV1611]

You don't read any translation other than the KJV nor do you study any other language than the KJV so how would you know? When the KJV Bible says "study to shew yourself approved", it doesn't mean the KJV itself, it means the original language. If you refuse to use the superior Modern English translations over the KJV then you reap the consequences.

I never said I don't look at other translations, I just DON'T trust them. You haven't answered my question yet, where does leader come from?