Would Christ Vote?
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but none of the states have to choose their delegates this way, and the electors are free to be unfaithful.
it's what we have always done - but get someone who does not care how things have always been done, put them in unfettered control of the government with a lot of influence over state governments and courts, and he or she could easily get rid of the popular election altogether and have states loyal to himself or herself simply appoint people to cast their votes exactly as he or she tells them to, no matter what the people say.
our system is actually pretty vulnerable to someone very shrewd and influential to corrupt it.
it's what we have always done - but get someone who does not care how things have always been done, put them in unfettered control of the government with a lot of influence over state governments and courts, and he or she could easily get rid of the popular election altogether and have states loyal to himself or herself simply appoint people to cast their votes exactly as he or she tells them to, no matter what the people say.
our system is actually pretty vulnerable to someone very shrewd and influential to corrupt it.
You are looking at Christ 's actions when He came to save the world. Start looking at His actions when He returns and you will see His ruling of the world is the true politics. Foreign policy will be done a little differently. Instead of trade embargoes, He will withhold the rain which, is way more effective.
Zechariah 14:17
And it shall be that whichever of the families of the earth do not come up to Jerusalem to worship the King, the Lord of hosts, on them there will be no rain.
We live in a fallen world, corruption is everywhere. If one is going to withdraw on the basis of something being corrupt in places, we will not be involved in anything. The whole point of my statement is to get in there to prevent the corruption overtaking the system and controlling it without any checks or balances. Why my statement should boggle your mind boggles mine. Should we (Christians) stand against nothing and let the corruption take over?
I'm in my Father's business which is one of redemption and reconciliation, not "eek, I don't want to get my hands dirty".
You go your way and I'll go mine.
ps. In my country, our politicians are called ministers. Our chief, equivalent to your President, is called the Prime Minister.
pps. It might also be worthwhile understanding what I mean when I use the word "politics".
Definition - The art or science of government or governing, especially the governing of a political entity, such as a nation, and the administration and control of its internal and external affairs.
Zechariah 14:17
And it shall be that whichever of the families of the earth do not come up to Jerusalem to worship the King, the Lord of hosts, on them there will be no rain.
We live in a fallen world, corruption is everywhere. If one is going to withdraw on the basis of something being corrupt in places, we will not be involved in anything. The whole point of my statement is to get in there to prevent the corruption overtaking the system and controlling it without any checks or balances. Why my statement should boggle your mind boggles mine. Should we (Christians) stand against nothing and let the corruption take over?
I'm in my Father's business which is one of redemption and reconciliation, not "eek, I don't want to get my hands dirty".
You go your way and I'll go mine.
ps. In my country, our politicians are called ministers. Our chief, equivalent to your President, is called the Prime Minister.
pps. It might also be worthwhile understanding what I mean when I use the word "politics".
Definition - The art or science of government or governing, especially the governing of a political entity, such as a nation, and the administration and control of its internal and external affairs.
Whereas you look to politics in order to forcefully regulate the actions of the unwilling, I look to the gospel to potentially change the hearts of those who are willing to receive it.
As far as Christ's future government is concerned, you might want to familiarize yourself with his parable of the talents. When Jesus returns, he will expect what he has given his disciples back with usury or interest, and the type of interest that he is after is the souls of men, women, and children. Only the gospel message, willfully received, can provide him with the same. That you fail to recognize this is truly frightening.
I see no need to converse with you any further on this topic, and I will end by saying that for you to even suggest that I do not want to get my hands dirty is total delusion on your part. You know nothing about me, except that your empty rhetoric does not move me. God knows that I have hazarded my life for the gospel's sake, and suffered great loss in many different ways due to my allegiance to Christ.
Farewell.
I don't want to deviate from what you're all talking on this thread but the double slit experiment is indeed a mystery which cannot be explained logically.
What is reality at the fundamental level? Blocks or Probability? They tend to go with Probability but we don't know anything for sure.
We have no idea dark matter and energy existed 50 years ago either so you never know what we might find.
And the more you find, the more you're humbled that you know nothing!
What is reality at the fundamental level? Blocks or Probability? They tend to go with Probability but we don't know anything for sure.
We have no idea dark matter and energy existed 50 years ago either so you never know what we might find.
And the more you find, the more you're humbled that you know nothing!
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we were talking in a Bible discussion forum.
what if anything at all secular politics have to do with the work of Christ in the ministry of His gospel is the context.
so, what's your take on secular political campaign contributions?
if voting for a man to gain worldly power is doing the work of God in your view, is ((for example)) giving Trump $100 to pay his legal debts equivalent to tithing?
what if anything at all secular politics have to do with the work of Christ in the ministry of His gospel is the context.
so, what's your take on secular political campaign contributions?
if voting for a man to gain worldly power is doing the work of God in your view, is ((for example)) giving Trump $100 to pay his legal debts equivalent to tithing?
there's no democracy in the kingdom of God.
so maybe you're a bit confused if you think any pagan nation, for example america, is that kingdom.
this is a Bible discussion forum, btw. so i'm going to keep talking about the Bible if you don't mind
so maybe you're a bit confused if you think any pagan nation, for example america, is that kingdom.
this is a Bible discussion forum, btw. so i'm going to keep talking about the Bible if you don't mind
Secular politics saved Paul at least one scourging (Acts 22:24-29) and a mob lynching (Acts 21:31-33)
I hope and pray you never have to rely on the laws that protect you that were instituted by your secular government.
I know it might be shocking for you to hear, but God can use the "pagans" to reach His goal of establishing His Kingdom and He is more than capable of using our governing systems (politics) to install those who can tear down the country or build it up just as He did with the kings of old.
Isaiah 45:1
“Thus says the Lord to His anointed, To Cyrus, whose right hand I have held— To subdue nations before him And loose the armor of kings, To open before him the double doors, So that the gates will not be shut:
and the very same Paul told us 'obey the rulers because God has appointed them' speaking about exactly those secular governmental leaders that abused and persecuted him.
but you say overthrow them and put ones that tickle your ears into power.
that's fine and well, but touching on the thread topic, you have no basis for arguing that engaging with secular politics is in any way a Christian activity - even in the simplest way as a voter, setting aside trying to become one, or spending your time trying to campaign for one.
your only appeal is to emotion and a tacit assumption that the church should choose and appoint the worldly government. this isn't scriptural, and the record of history, as i have said at least once already, is that every time the church involves itself in the government of the secular world, it ends horribly corrupting the church and being quite a disaster for the population writ large.
moreover the record of history shows that the church grows and becomes stronger in its faith when it is persecuted, and is weaker and more full of heresy when it is not. so the central assumption of your argument wherever it isn't an enforced legalism on a pagan population, which is clear failure, fails also in that what we have seen in the way time and circumstances actually happen, is that it is not necessarily good for the church when the world pretends to act like it is part of it.
but you say overthrow them and put ones that tickle your ears into power.
that's fine and well, but touching on the thread topic, you have no basis for arguing that engaging with secular politics is in any way a Christian activity - even in the simplest way as a voter, setting aside trying to become one, or spending your time trying to campaign for one.
your only appeal is to emotion and a tacit assumption that the church should choose and appoint the worldly government. this isn't scriptural, and the record of history, as i have said at least once already, is that every time the church involves itself in the government of the secular world, it ends horribly corrupting the church and being quite a disaster for the population writ large.
moreover the record of history shows that the church grows and becomes stronger in its faith when it is persecuted, and is weaker and more full of heresy when it is not. so the central assumption of your argument wherever it isn't an enforced legalism on a pagan population, which is clear failure, fails also in that what we have seen in the way time and circumstances actually happen, is that it is not necessarily good for the church when the world pretends to act like it is part of it.
In certain states the electors must vote for the one who won the state. Don't believe that there have been that many faithless electors in the political history of the United States. There have only been a total of 90 faithless electors who did not vote for the winning candidate in the political history of the United States. The outcome has never been changed due to faithless electors.
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it's a small percentage, but it is statistically growing in proportion.
less than half of states have any kind of repercussion for being faithless at all, and none have anything more than a slap on the wrist. a thousand dollar fine to a millionaire.
the way out government is set up us overall under the presumption that people are honorable. it doesn't take many dishonorable men to make it completely fall apart - we are watching that happen already. a convicted felon will be our president next year, and force the courts to stop examining him. any other president in our history would have bowed out for the good of the nation, instead this man used every influence and lie he could to gain even more power.
he is extremely shrewd, and it is a poignant illustration of how the system depends on a presumed decency of character. it's really quite amazing
less than half of states have any kind of repercussion for being faithless at all, and none have anything more than a slap on the wrist. a thousand dollar fine to a millionaire.
the way out government is set up us overall under the presumption that people are honorable. it doesn't take many dishonorable men to make it completely fall apart - we are watching that happen already. a convicted felon will be our president next year, and force the courts to stop examining him. any other president in our history would have bowed out for the good of the nation, instead this man used every influence and lie he could to gain even more power.
he is extremely shrewd, and it is a poignant illustration of how the system depends on a presumed decency of character. it's really quite amazing
While churches shouldn't necessarily involve themselves in the political arena, every Christian should consider every aspect of society in the world they live in, which includes government. In America, we don't have freedom of religion, but the freedom to practice our religion. This means someone exercising their rights can have an enormous impact on society. One area isn't more than another; only one should be led in what they do. We are to bloom where we are planted.
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