Wrath

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Cameron143 said:
While justice and mercy are both employed by God, I fail to see how the two are applied simultaneously to the same individual. Mercy requires God to relent from doing justice, and not apply to the individual the justice their actions should require of them. God can remain just in doing so because in Christ He has already exacted justice. But I don't see how both justice and mercy can occur simultaneously.
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Justice can be mercy because putting an evildoer out of their misery accomplishes both - justice in giving them death and mercy in saving them from self-inflicted suffering. Mercy can be justice because in forgiving us of our sins to prevent our death we can receive Holy Spirit's help to become righteous, allowing us to become worthy of the life that was gifted to us.

I am still exploring this idea myself, but I don't see them as necessarily being in conflict.
 
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Ballaurena said:
Justice can be mercy because putting an evildoer out of their misery accomplishes both - justice in giving them death and mercy in saving them from self-inflicted suffering. Mercy can be justice because in forgiving us of our sins to prevent our death we can receive Holy Spirit's help to become righteous, allowing us to become worthy of the life that was gifted to us.

I am still exploring this idea myself, but I don't see them as necessarily being in conflict.
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Doesn't putting someone out of their misery simply lead to a place of intense misery? And who will ever be worthy of the life we have been given?
 
Cameron143 said:
Doesn't putting someone out of their misery simply lead to a place of intense misery? And who will ever be worthy of the life we have been given?
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Apparently you missed my notes in an earlier post, or didn't understand what I was saying. Here is it again:
Ballaurena said:
Finally, God says the wages of sin are death (Rom. 6:23), and suggests that whosoever does not believe on Jesus will perish (John 3:16, Rom. 6:21-22). When someone refuses to repent, they end up causing both themselves and everyone around them harm. Clearly such a person could not go on living with others in heaven or it wouldn't be heaven. But more than that, just continuing to exist will cause them misery themself if they aren't interested in walking in the truth. Therefore I believe it is actually a kindness (grace) to put them out of their misery by letting them perish.

I do realize that on this last point, my view of God's final judgment/wrath is not the prevailing view. I have studied this issue extensively, however, and believe the more common view - that of eternal suffering, to be a mere tradition rooted in coercion. But obviously you would need to seek God and study up on this issue for yourself to be properly convinced.
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If you have perished or are dead you no longer exist. Therefore there can be no misery.

As for your latter note, to receive salvation isn't just to be saved from death but to be saved from our fallen, sin-sick state. (Romans 7-8, Ezk. 36:26-27, etc.) Obviously we don't get perfected in this life but who's to say we don't get to perfection in eternity?
 
Ballaurena said:
Apparently you missed my notes in an earlier post, or didn't understand what I was saying. Here is it again:

If you have perished or are dead you no longer exist. Therefore there can be no misery.

As for your latter note, to receive salvation isn't just to be saved from death but to be saved from our fallen, sin-sick state. (Romans 7-8, Ezk. 36:26-27, etc.) Obviously we don't get perfected in this life but who's to say we don't get to perfection in eternity?
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The rich man who died lifted up his eyes in hell being in torments. Souls are eternal.
 
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Cameron143 said:
The rich man who died lifted up his eyes in hell being in torments. Souls are eternal.
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Matthew 10:28 NIV
Do not be afraid of those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul. Rather, be afraid of the One who can destroy both soul and body in hell.

You cite one verse given in a story. I used to highlight versus in my Bible all the time that suggested that our soul is temporary apart from receiving salvation. I finally gave it up because I was just filling my Bible up with otherwise useless notations. Really though, you will not know what the truth is until you are willing to face the issue with an open mind and heart.
 
Ballaurena said:
Matthew 10:28 NIV
Do not be afraid of those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul. Rather, be afraid of the One who can destroy both soul and body in hell.

You cite one verse given in a story. I used to highlight versus in my Bible all the time that suggested that our soul is temporary apart from receiving salvation. I finally gave it up because I was just filling my Bible up with otherwise useless notations. Really though, you will not know what the truth is until you are willing to face the issue with an open mind and heart.
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Telling someone that they have a closed heart on an issue is the height of arrogance. I appreciate the discussion.

Grace and peace.
 
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