You need both water baptism and the Holy Ghost/Holy Spirit.

[FreeGrace2]

FreeGrace2 said:
No, I didn't "brush lightly over the verses". I pointed out that John's baptism is totally DIFFERENT than church age baptism.

You do not understand 1 Peter 3:21 at all.

I have been focusing on the very foundations... The first mentions... The way God himself initially set it up.

When people are willing to ignore (re-write, replace, redefine) the first statements (unjust in that which is least) they are also willing to ignore the meaning of the latter statements.(unjust in that which is much)

The bible states the purpose of baptism right at the beginning. You might not like it, but you have no right redefining or reinterpreting what it says.

It says John was preaching and baptizing the baptism of repentance for the remission of sins. People who were willing to submit to that were granted their sins to be washed away (because of their obedience to the word and faith in God's message through those He sends).

If that changed later, we could look at what changes are made, and when... But if you don't admit what is clearly stated at the beginning, why should you expect to be trusted at what is built on that basic foundation?

In my estimation, you are refusing the clear statements about John's baptism because you have allowed your perceptions about later events to inform the earlier events. But God manifest them in the world AND in the word in the other order.

Love in Jesus,
Kelby

You didn't even address my point that John's baptism is different than NT baptism. Or 1 Pet 3:21

 

[peldom10]

“The issue is not should we be water baptized, but that it can never wash away sins. If it could, Christ would of never went to the Cross.”

still On the baptism argument huh lol you make me smile brother

Though it is rather exhausting spiritually going in the same circle when scripture tells the story itself repetitively but then we just can’t accept it for whatever reason. God established baptism in water for remission of sins.

Jesus was baptized in water as an example for his followers. all His disciples were baptized in water before he came forth and after he came forth people were all getting baptized in water for remission of sins before he shed the holy Ghost forth at pentocost and after he shed forth the Holy Ghost

because Gods word establishes repentance and baptism in water for remission of sins. Before Jesus preached , during his ministry , and also after his resurrection and gave the great commission for them to preach the gospel and baptize in his name.


receiving the Holy Spirit doesn’t remit our sins , doing what Gods word says to do remits our sins. Getting baptized into the death and resurrection of Christ in his name remits sins.


none of it changes because you have erased it in your opinion and made the argument “ water baptism “ doesn’t matter (as if there’s some other way to get baptized for remission of sin that’s found anywhere but in your own idea. The problem is is contrary to what is in the Bible.

Johns baptism in water for remission isn’t replaced it is continued after they all received the Holy Ghost like John was full Of the Holy Ghost when baptizing them in water.

it’s just being taught before Jesus was made known but it’s established for after he was resurrected like the rest of the gospel it’s basic church doctrine to get baptized in water for remission of sins because you hear about what God said and believe it’s true.

the other “Baptism “ is something only Jesus does from heaven it’s to receive the Holy Ghost because you believe the gospel it’s a freely given gift because I believe the gospel nothing else but actually believing his word matters.

that’s “ he will Baptize you with the Holy Ghost “ John the Baptist foretold it

It’s what Jesus promised

“Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you.”
‭‭John‬ ‭16:7‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“So then after the Lord had spoken unto them, he was received up into heaven, and sat on the right hand of God.”
‭‭Mark‬ ‭16:19‬ ‭KJV‬‬

when they received the Holy Ghost Peter preached the gospel and then said in conclusion

“This Jesus hath God raised up, whereof we all are witnesses. Therefore being by the right hand of God exalted, and having received of the Father the promise of the Holy Ghost, he hath shed forth this, which ye now see and hear.”
‭‭Acts‬ ‭2:32-33‬ ‭KJV‬‬

After beginning the argument in Joel quoting the prophet saying

“But this is that which was spoken by the prophet Joel; And it shall come to pass in the last days, saith God, I will pour out of my Spirit upon all flesh: And your sons and your daughters shall prophesy,

And your young men shall see visions, And your old men shall dream dreams: And on my servants and on my handmaidens I will pour out in those days of my Spirit; and they shall prophesy: ………And it shall come to pass, that whosoever shall call on the name of the Lord shall be saved.”
‭‭Acts‬ ‭2:16-18, 21‬ ‭KJV‬‬

baptism has never changed we get baptized in water for remission of sins that’s something we do in Jesus name based on our faith in his life death and resurrection for us.

this is Peter to the church after receiving the Holy Ghost from Jesus

“Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins,

and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.”
‭‭Acts‬ ‭2:38

This is Peter later sent to Gentiles who believed still himself having the Holy Ghost

“And he commanded us to preach unto the people, and to testify that it is he which was ordained of God to be the Judge of quick and dead. To him give all the prophets witness, that through his name whosoever believeth in him shall receive remission of sins. While Peter yet spake these words, the Holy Ghost fell on all them which heard the word.”
‭‭Acts‬ ‭10:42-44‬ ‭

All the Gentiles that believe receive the Holy Ghost promise from Jesus Watch now the immediate response it’s just like pentocost they received the spirit through belief but now ?

“And they of the circumcision which believed were astonished, as many as came with Peter, because that on the Gentiles also was poured out the gift of the Holy Ghost.

For they heard them speak with tongues, and magnify God. Then answered Peter, Can any man forbid water, that these should not be baptized, which have received the Holy Ghost as well as we?

And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord. Then prayed they him to tarry certain days.”
‭‭Acts‬ ‭10:45-48‬ ‭KJV‬‬

just like the Jew they are born of spirit because they believe the word of the gospel , and tbey get baptized in water for remission of sins and rise up with a new clean conscience having thier sins remitted Gods way

because they believe in Jesus they are being baptized into his death burial and resurrection. It’s something a believer does non believers who don’t understand baptisms significance are t going to bother to them it’s just plain ole water Gods blessing and purpose for water baptism has no place in tbier thinking it’s made up just water ….nothing more

But you already know my position on baptism and I know yours too seems like a circle brother

Break that unsound circle with God's word;'

Baptism is Required


Peter 3: 21.... whereunto even baptism doth also now save us...

John 3:5 .......Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.


Acts 2;38-....Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

Acts 22;16... And now why tarriest thou? arise, and be baptized, and wash away thy sins, calling on the name of the Lord.


Galations 3:26...... For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus.
27 For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.

KJV Marrk 16:16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.

KJV Matthew 3:14... But John forbad him, saying, I have need to be baptized of thee, and comest thou to me? 15. Jesus answering said unto him, Suffer it to be so now, for thus it becometh us to fulfil all rightesousness. Then He suffered Him.

KJV Matthew 28:19..... Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:.

Acts 8:12-18: But when they believed Philip as he preached the things concerning the kingdom of God and the name of Jesus Christ, both men and women were baptized.

John 3; 22 After these things came Jesus and his disciples into the land of Judaea; and there he tarried with them, and baptized.
23 And John also was baptizing in Aenon near to Salim, because there was much water there: and they came, and were baptized.

Quote from Billy Graham that is note worthy;
....Also, to clarify I did not say remission of sin takes place at repentance. Scripture makes it clear that it occurs upon obedience to water baptism in the name of the Lord Jesus. Each is a step of faith, along with receiving the Holy Ghost, in the process of one's spiritual rebirth

.."Paul explains the doctrinal significance of what occurs when one is baptized.His explanation is found in his letter to those who had already been obedient to the command.

Paul tells the Roman Christians what actually occurred when they were/are baptized; they were baptized into His death. Being buried with Jesus into His death resulted in their sin being destroyed.

Even though Paul explains this concept, the NEW AGE RELIGION TEACHING is......... that water baptism is nothing other than a mere public display.......... And that is so far removed from the truth.

Keep in mind that Satan knows if he can continue to perpetuate that lie ...... he can keep people from entering the kingdom of God. Thus He has proven scripture which says ...in the end times there will be ...great delusions.....they are here.

Conclusion....teaching that baptism is not necessary is violation of Rev. 22;19.... And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book. 20 He which testifieth these things saith, Surely I come quickly. Amen. Even so, come, Lord Jesus. (Also two other books of the Bible).

 

[Wansvic]

CORRECT - You said: "Its not the work of the fleshly water... Its the answer (reply, response) of a good (functioning) conscience to the word of God."

CORRECT: 1 Peter 3:21 KJV
The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us, not the putting away of the filth of the flesh,
but the answer of a good conscience toward God by the resurrection of Jesus Christ:

CAN you HEAR what was Said HEAR???

A.) you cannot be saved thru water baptizing your flesh
B.) a 'Good conscience' can only mean ONE THING = "toward God"
C.) which is FAITH in the Death, Burial and RESURRECTION of Jesus Christ

Can you HEAR this ONE THING that SAVES us?

Obedience to the God-given command to be baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus results in one's sins being remitted and is only possible because of the resurrection of the Lord Jesus Christ. The point made in the scripture is that the baptism is water baptism; however, the water coming into contact with one's skin upon immersion plays no part in the process. It is God who brings about the spiritual reality, as stated, per His own design.

 

[DavidTree]

Can you HEAR this ONE THING that SAVES us?

Same Apostle Peter who wrote 1 Peter 3:21 also wrote 1 Peter 1:17-21 = SEE Post#273

Obedience to the God-given command to be baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus results in one's sins being remitted and is only possible because of the resurrection of the Lord Jesus Christ. The point made in the scripture is that the baptism is water baptism; however, the water coming into contact with one's skin upon immersion plays no part in the process. It is God who brings about the spiritual reality, as stated, per His own design.

Well, your getting closer to the Truth, don't stop - keep reading and praying and believing.

 

[Wansvic]

CORRECT

The issue is not should we be water baptized, but that it can never wash away sins.
If it could, Christ would of never went to the Cross.

Therefore anyone who attaches water baptism as a requirement for forgiveness of sins is teaching heresy and is insulting the Spirit of Grace.

NEVER place anything as equal to the BLOOD of Christ for forgiveness of sin.

"Therefore, leaving the discussion of the elementary principles of Christ, let us go on to perfection, not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works and of faith toward God, of the doctrine of baptisms, of laying on of hands, of resurrection of the dead, and of eternal judgment. And this we will do if God permits."

And the Lord spoke to Moses, saying, “Speak also to the children of Israel, saying: ‘Surely My Sabbaths you shall keep, for it is a sign between Me and you throughout your generations, that you may know that I am the Lord who sanctifies you. You shall keep the Sabbath, therefore, for it is holy to you. Everyone who profanes it shall surely be put to death; for whoever does any work on it, that person shall be cut off from among his people. Work shall be done for six days, but the seventh is the Sabbath of rest, holy to the Lord. Whoever does any work on the Sabbath day, he shall surely be put to death.

Many people will not be able to enter into His Rest because they added to the finished work of Christ on the Cross.

It is the LORD who sanctifies us by His Blood - never outward rituals.

Without Jesus' sacrifice no one could be saved. Although man did nothing to deserve it, Jesus atoned for the sin of all of mankind. However, not all will be partakers of God's grace. Obedience to the God-given commands associated with Jesus' death, burial and resurrection are necessary to receive one's spiritual rebirth. (Acts 2:36-42) Those who refuse the counsel of God remain in the fallen state brought on by the first couple's refusal to obey God.

 

[Wansvic]

Can you HEAR this ONE THING that SAVES us?

Same Apostle Peter who wrote 1 Peter 3:21 also wrote 1 Peter 1:17-21 = SEE Post#273


Well, your getting closer to the Truth, don't stop - keep reading and praying and believing.

22 "Seeing ye have purified your souls in obeying the truth through the Spirit unto unfeigned love of the brethren, see that ye love one another with a pure heart fervently:
23 Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.

The word of God expresses the truth that must be obeyed in order to receive one's spiritual rebirth. (Acts 2)

 

[DavidTree]

Without Jesus' sacrifice no one could be saved. Although man did nothing to deserve it, Jesus atoned for the sin of all of mankind. However, not all will be partakers of God's grace. Obedience to the God-given commands associated with Jesus' death, burial and resurrection are necessary to receive one's spiritual rebirth. (Acts 2:36-42) Those who refuse the counsel of God remain in the fallen state brought on by the first couple's refusal to obey God.

You said: "Obedience to the God-given commands associated with Jesus' death, burial and resurrection are necessary to receive one's spiritual rebirth."

What you said is not TRUTH.

Acts 2:22-36 is TRUTH

Acts 2:37 is the heart conviction to the TRUTH spoken by the Holy Spirit in verses 22-36

Acts 2: 38-39 is the Reward of Faith to those who Obey the call to come to Christ for forgiveness of sins

Peter replied, “Repent and be baptized, every one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins, and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. This promise belongs to you and your children and to all who are far off—to all whom the Lord our God will call to Himself.”

the water never washes away the sins = only the Blood of Christ

the call to water baptism is a call to outward obedience to inward Faith in the MESSAGE of CHRIST

 

[DavidTree]

22 "Seeing ye have purified your souls in obeying the truth through the Spirit unto unfeigned love of the brethren, see that ye love one another with a pure heart fervently:
23 Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.

The word of God expresses the truth that must be obeyed in order to receive one's spiritual rebirth. (Acts 2)

NOW you HAVE IT = Stay with this TRUTH = It is the SAME Message that Jesus spoke to Nicodemus in John 3:1-21

 

[Pilgrimshope]

Break that unsound circle with God's word;'

Baptism is Required


Peter 3: 21.... whereunto even baptism doth also now save us...

John 3:5 .......Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.


Acts 2;38-....Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

Acts 22;16... And now why tarriest thou? arise, and be baptized, and wash away thy sins, calling on the name of the Lord.


Galations 3:26...... For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus.
27 For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.

KJV Marrk 16:16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.

KJV Matthew 3:14... But John forbad him, saying, I have need to be baptized of thee, and comest thou to me? 15. Jesus answering said unto him, Suffer it to be so now, for thus it becometh us to fulfil all rightesousness. Then He suffered Him.

KJV Matthew 28:19..... Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:.

Acts 8:12-18: But when they believed Philip as he preached the things concerning the kingdom of God and the name of Jesus Christ, both men and women were baptized.

John 3; 22 After these things came Jesus and his disciples into the land of Judaea; and there he tarried with them, and baptized.
23 And John also was baptizing in Aenon near to Salim, because there was much water there: and they came, and were baptized.

Quote from Billy Graham that is note worthy;
....Also, to clarify I did not say remission of sin takes place at repentance. Scripture makes it clear that it occurs upon obedience to water baptism in the name of the Lord Jesus. Each is a step of faith, along with receiving the Holy Ghost, in the process of one's spiritual rebirth

.."Paul explains the doctrinal significance of what occurs when one is baptized.His explanation is found in his letter to those who had already been obedient to the command.

Paul tells the Roman Christians what actually occurred when they were/are baptized; they were baptized into His death. Being buried with Jesus into His death resulted in their sin being destroyed.

Even though Paul explains this concept, the NEW AGE RELIGION TEACHING is......... that water baptism is nothing other than a mere public display.......... And that is so far removed from the truth.

Keep in mind that Satan knows if he can continue to perpetuate that lie ...... he can keep people from entering the kingdom of God. Thus He has proven scripture which says ...in the end times there will be ...great delusions.....they are here.

Conclusion....teaching that baptism is not necessary is violation of Rev. 22;19.... And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book. 20 He which testifieth these things saith, Surely I come quickly. Amen. Even so, come, Lord Jesus. (Also two other books of the Bible).

“Paul tells the Roman Christians what actually occurred when they were/are baptized; they were baptized into His death. Being buried with Jesus into His death resulted in their sin being destroyed.”

yeah I agree baptism is established here in the gospel not before the gospel but as the gospel came forth so did baptism for remission of sins

“The law and the prophets were until John: since that time the kingdom of God is preached, and every man presseth into it.”
‭‭Luke‬ ‭16:16‬ ‭KJV‬‬


“John did baptize in the wilderness, and preach the baptism of repentance for the remission of sins. And there went out unto him all the land of Judæa, and they of Jerusalem, and were all baptized of him in the river of Jordan, confessing their sins.”
‭‭Mark‬ ‭1:4-5‬ ‭KJV‬‬


And as your saying all this stuff in the epistles explains the significance of baptism the inner workings of it by faith and how it applies tonthe believer

“Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death? Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life. ….Likewise reckon ye also yourselves to be dead indeed unto sin, but alive unto God through Jesus Christ our Lord.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭6:3-4, 11‬ ‭KJV‬‬

it also is what makes us dead to the law

“Know ye not, brethren, (for I speak to them that know the law,) how that the law hath dominion over a man ( only ) as long as he liveth? …..Wherefore, my brethren, ye also are become dead to the law by the body of Christ; that ye should be married to another, even to him who is raised from the dead, that we should bring forth fruit unto God.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭7:1, 4‬ ‭KJV‬‬

it’s also an instrument regarding the circumcision of Christ ( removing our sins ) and again you see how it removes the law that’s opposed to us

“in whom also ye are circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, in putting off the body of the sins of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ: buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with him through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead.

And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses; blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;”
‭‭Colossians‬ ‭2:11-14‬ ‭KJV‬‬


I agree with you as far as the epistles explainkng shat baptism is for and how it remits sin through christs death burial and resurrection . The price for sin is that the sinner dies this makes equal payment and removes thier debt when a person dies thier sins are remitted paid for in full. The price for sin is death .

Jesus paid that price whe. We believe we get baptized as a conscious choice to enjoin our self with him and his death is credited as our death for sin

this leaves us alive but having already died for sin we now live in Christ alone apart from our past of sin and death

“ required “ though I don’t agree the Bible never says “ if you believe and don’t get baptized your lost “

that being said there’s absolutely no reason my Christian should think baptism is for any purpose other than what it says “ repentance and remission of sins “


a lot of what one person sees as a requirement is based on what they know and have heard some Christians are never taught about baptism and it’s importance in that case we have to realize everyone isn’t judged the same but by what they themselves understand

“And that servant, which knew his Lord's will, and prepared not himself, neither did according to his will, shall be beaten with many stripes.

But he that knew not, and did commit things worthy of stripes, shall be beaten with few stripes. For unto whomsoever much is given, of him shall be much required: and to whom men have committed much, of him they will ask the more.”
‭‭Luke‬ ‭12:47-48‬ ‭

the more a Christian understands the more we need to walk by it the less we understand the less accountability one has

if we understand baptism and the. Refuse to get baptized is one thing , if we don’t understand the significance d. I knew ever taught us what it means and is for is another thing

“Therefore to him that knoweth to do good, and doeth it not, to him it is sin.”
‭‭James‬ ‭4:17‬ ‭

God doesn’t hold things against people because they lack understanding , he holds it against us when we are aware and reject it anyways

 

[FreeGrace2]

The word of God expresses the truth that must be obeyed in order to receive one's spiritual rebirth. (Acts 2)

Again, wrong chapter.

The NT is full of passages that specifically teach that salvation is on the basis of believing the gospel. And the gospel message is clearly explained in 1 Cor 15:1-4. Without ANY mention of water baptism.

There are about 24 verses that teach that salvation/eternal life are received on the basis of believing. With NO MENTION of water baptism.

So.........IF IF IF water baptism was a requirement for salvation, as you insist, EVERY verse on salvation/eternal life would INCLUDE water baptism.

The Bible isn't sloppy in its communication of truth. It is very precise.

Your doctrine is not found in the Bible.

 

[FreeGrace2]

One verse I said your past indicates you will take lightly is John 20:23 where Jesus says "Whose soever sins YE REMIT, they are remitted unto them; and whose soever sins YE retain, they are retained"

So... Did Jesus give them the power to remit other people's sins?

Love in Jesus,
Kelby

From: http://www.freebiblecommentary.org/new_testament_studies/VOL04/VOL04_20.html

20:23 "If you forgive the sins of any" These are two THIRD CLASS CONDITIONAL SENTENCES with an which is usually used with SECOND CLASS CONDITIONAL SENTENCES, not ean. This mixed condition heightens the contingency which relates both to those who share the gospel and to those who respond by faith. Someone with the gospel knowledge chooses to share it and someone hears it and chooses to receive it. Both aspects are required. This verse does not give arbitrary authority to clergy, but wonderful life-giving power to believing witnesses! This authority was evidenced in the mission trip of the seventy during Jesus' life.

"their sins have been forgiven them" This grammatical construction is a PERFECT PASSIVE INDICATIVE. The PASSIVE VOICE implies God's forgiveness, available completely through gospel proclamation. Believers have the keys of the kingdom (cf. Matt. 16:19) if they will only use them. This promise is to the Church, not individuals. This is theologically similar to "the bound and unbound" of Matt. 18:18.

 

[Wansvic]

You said: "Obedience to the God-given commands associated with Jesus' death, burial and resurrection are necessary to receive one's spiritual rebirth."

What you said is not TRUTH.

Acts 2:22-36 is TRUTH

Acts 2:37 is the heart conviction to the TRUTH spoken by the Holy Spirit in verses 22-36

Acts 2: 38-39 is the Reward of Faith to those who Obey the call to come to Christ for forgiveness of sins

Peter replied, “Repent and be baptized, every one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins, and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. This promise belongs to you and your children and to all who are far off—to all whom the Lord our God will call to Himself.”

the water never washes away the sins = only the Blood of Christ

the call to water baptism is a call to outward obedience to inward Faith in the MESSAGE of CHRIST

According to the word as confirmed numerous times sins are remitted upon obedience to water baptism.

You note part of Peter's message. However, it continues with specific instructions that result in one's sin being remitted. Note verses 40 and 41. Peter told them what to do to save themselves. It was after they obeyed his message that they were accepted.

Also, Ananias was sent by God to instruct Paul what was required of him. He told Paul to submit to baptism in order to wash away his sins. (Acts 22:14-16)

"Now when they heard this, they were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men and brethren, what shall we do?
38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
39 For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.
40 And with many other words did he testify and exhort, saying, Save yourselves from this untoward generation.
41 Then they that gladly received his word were baptized: and the same day there were added unto them about three thousand souls.
42 And they continued stedfastly in the apostles' doctrine...



"And he said, The God of our fathers hath chosen thee, that thou shouldest know his will, and see that Just One, and shouldest hear the voice of his mouth.
15 For thou shalt be his witness unto all men of what thou hast seen and heard.
16 And now why tarriest thou? arise, and be baptized, and wash away thy sins, calling on the name of the Lord."(Acts 22:14-16

 

[Wansvic]

NOW you HAVE IT = Stay with this TRUTH = It is the SAME Message that Jesus spoke to Nicodemus in John 3:1-21

The truth obeyed is what was stated initially on the Day of Pentecost by Peter, who was given the keys to the kingdom by Jesus. (Acts 2:36-41) Afterward the same message was presented to all groups of humanity. (Acts 8:12-18, 9:17-18, 10:43-48, 19:1-6, 22:16) In all cases the individuals were instructed to submit to water baptism in Jesus' name and received the Holy Ghost. This actually lines up with John 3:3-5. The truth is still presented today. However, according to Jesus few will find (accept) it.

 

[peldom10]

No one, regardless of the number of attempts, has presented any biblical support that baptism is not required for sin cleansing. Because the Bible does not conflict;

Baptism is Required.



Peter 3: 21.... whereunto even baptism doth also now save us...

John 3:5 .......Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.


Acts 2;38-....Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

Acts 22;16... And now why tarriest thou? arise, and be baptized, and wash away thy sins, calling on the name of the Lord.


Galations 3:26...... For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus.
27 For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.

KJV Marrk 16:16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.

KJV Matthew 3:14... But John forbad him, saying, I have need to be baptized of thee, and comest thou to me? 15. Jesus answering said unto him, Suffer it to be so now, for thus it becometh us to fulfil all rightesousness. Then He suffered Him.

KJV Matthew 28:19..... Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:.

Acts 8:12-18: But when they believed Philip as he preached the things concerning the kingdom of God and the name of Jesus Christ, both men and women were baptized.

John 3; 22 After these things came Jesus and his disciples into the land of Judaea; and there he tarried with them, and baptized.
23 And John also was baptizing in Aenon near to Salim, because there was much water there: and they came, and were baptized.

Quote from Billy Graham that is note worthy;
....Also, to clarify I did not say remission of sin takes place at repentance. Scripture makes it clear that it occurs upon obedience to water baptism in the name of the Lord Jesus. Each is a step of faith, along with receiving the Holy Ghost, in the process of one's spiritual rebirth

.."Paul explains the doctrinal significance of what occurs when one is baptized.His explanation is found in his letter to those who had already been obedient to the command.

Paul tells the Roman Christians what actually occurred when they were/are baptized; they were baptized into His death. Being buried with Jesus into His death resulted in their sin being destroyed.

Even though Paul explains this concept, the NEW AGE RELIGION TEACHING is......... that water baptism is nothing other than a mere public display.......... And that is so far removed from the truth.

Keep in mind that Satan knows if he can continue to perpetuate that lie ...... he can keep people from entering the kingdom of God. Thus He has proven scripture which says ...in the end times there will be ...great delusions.....they are here.

Conclusion....teaching that baptism is not necessary is violation of Rev. 22;19.... And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book. 20 He which testifieth these things saith, Surely I come quickly. Amen. Even so, come, Lord Jesus. (Also two other books of the Bible).

 

[FreeGrace2]

According to the word as confirmed numerous times sins are remitted upon obedience to water baptism.

Repetition of a false claim "numerous times" isn't a confirmation of truth in any sense.

Reliance on Acts 2:38-39 for your doctrine is off base. The Holy Spirit is received on the basis of believing, as Gal 3:2 and 5 say.

If water baptism were required for salvation or forgiveness, then water baptism would be in ALL the verses about salvation/eternal life, and forgiveness. So, let's see how that works out.

Acts 10:43 - All the prophets testify about him that everyone who believes in him receives forgiveness of sins through his name.”

Red words show what must be done for remission of sins; to believe.
Blue words refer to the object of who is to be believed; Jesus Christ. No water baptism mentioned.

Salvation:

Luke 8:12 "Those beside the road are those who have heard; then the devil comes and takes away the word from their heart, so that they will not believe and be saved.

Acts 4:12 "And there is salvation in no one else; for there is no other name under heaven that has been given among men by which we must be saved."

Acts 11:14 and he will speak words to you by which you will be saved, you and all your household.'

Acts 16:31They said, “Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved, you and your household."

Rom 10:9, 10 9 that if you confess with your mouth Jesus as Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved; 10 for with the heart a person believes, resulting in righteousness, and with the mouth he confesses, resulting in salvation.


Rom 1:16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel, for it is the power of God for salvation to everyone who believes, to the Jew first and also to the Greek.

1 Cor 1:21 - For since in the wisdom of God the world through its wisdom did not know him, God was pleased through the foolishness of what was preached to save those who believe.

Eph 2:8 For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God;

2 Tim 3:15 and that from childhood you have known the sacred writings which are able to give you the wisdom that leads to salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus.

1 Peter 1:5 who are protected by the power of God through faith for a salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.

1 Peter 1:9 obtaining as the outcome of your faith the salvation of your souls.

2 Thess 2:13 But we should always give thanks to God for you, brethren beloved by the Lord, because God has chosen you from the beginning for salvation through sanctification by the Spirit and faith in the truth.

Eternal Life:

John 3:15-16 15 so that whoever believes will in Him have eternal life. 16 "For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him shall not perish, but have eternal life.

John 3:36 "He who believes in the Son has eternal life; but he who does not obey the Son will not see life, but the wrath of God abides on him."

John 5:24 "Truly, truly, I say to you, he who hears My word, and believes Him who sent Me, has eternal life, and does not come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life.

John 6:40 "For this is the will of My Father, that everyone who beholds the Son and believes in Him will have eternal life, and I Myself will raise him up on the last day."

John 6:47 "Truly, truly, I say to you, he who believes has eternal life.

Rom 6:23 For the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord

1 Tim 1:16 Yet for this reason I found mercy, so that in me as the foremost, Jesus Christ might demonstrate His perfect patience as an example for those who would believe in Him for eternal life.

Gal 3:22 But the Scripture has shut up everyone under sin, so that the promise by faith in Jesus Christ might be given to those who believe.

1 John 5:13 These things I have written to you who believe in the name of the Son of God, so that you may know that you have eternal life.

"And he said, The God of our fathers hath chosen thee, that thou shouldest know his will, and see that Just One, and shouldest hear the voice of his mouth.
15 For thou shalt be his witness unto all men of what thou hast seen and heard.
16 And now why tarriest thou? arise, and be baptized, and wash away thy sins, calling on the name of the Lord."(Acts 22:14-16

Many simply misunderstand what Paul said.

The words "calling on the name of the Lord" are attached to "wash away thy sins". Not "be baptized".

The "and" separates the two commands.

Command #1 - arise and be baptized
Command #2 - wash away your sins, (by) calling on the name of the Lord

 

[peldom10]

The truth obeyed is what was stated initially on the Day of Pentecost by Peter, who was given the keys to the kingdom by Jesus. (Acts 2:36-41) Afterward the same message was presented to all groups of humanity. (Acts 8:12-18, 9:17-18, 10:43-48, 19:1-6, 22:16) In all cases the individuals were instructed to submit to water baptism in Jesus' name and received the Holy Ghost. This actually lines up with John 3:3-5. The truth is still presented today. However, according to Jesus few will find (accept) it.

I feel denominational teaching is behind miss interpretations of the Bible.
Then..... allegiance to the denomination ......prevents a open mind to understand clear scriptures.
Precisely what we see in this thread concerning baptism;

Baptism is Required



Peter 3: 21.... whereunto even baptism doth also now save us...

John 3:5 .......Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.


Acts 2;38-....Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

Acts 22;16... And now why tarriest thou? arise, and be baptized, and wash away thy sins, calling on the name of the Lord.


Galations 3:26...... For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus.
27 For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.

KJV Marrk 16:16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.

KJV Matthew 3:14... But John forbad him, saying, I have need to be baptized of thee, and comest thou to me? 15. Jesus answering said unto him, Suffer it to be so now, for thus it becometh us to fulfil all rightesousness. Then He suffered Him.

KJV Matthew 28:19..... Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:.

Acts 8:12-18: But when they believed Philip as he preached the things concerning the kingdom of God and the name of Jesus Christ, both men and women were baptized.

John 3; 22 After these things came Jesus and his disciples into the land of Judaea; and there he tarried with them, and baptized.
23 And John also was baptizing in Aenon near to Salim, because there was much water there: and they came, and were baptized.

Quote from Billy Graham that is note worthy;
....Also, to clarify I did not say remission of sin takes place at repentance. Scripture makes it clear that it occurs upon obedience to water baptism in the name of the Lord Jesus. Each is a step of faith, along with receiving the Holy Ghost, in the process of one's spiritual rebirth

.."Paul explains the doctrinal significance of what occurs when one is baptized.His explanation is found in his letter to those who had already been obedient to the command.

Paul tells the Roman Christians what actually occurred when they were/are baptized; they were baptized into His death. Being buried with Jesus into His death resulted in their sin being destroyed.

Even though Paul explains this concept, the NEW AGE RELIGION TEACHING is......... that water baptism is nothing other than a mere public display.......... And that is so far removed from the truth.

Keep in mind that Satan knows if he can continue to perpetuate that lie ...... he can keep people from entering the kingdom of God. Thus He has proven scripture which says ...in the end times there will be ...great delusions.....they are here.

Conclusion....teaching that baptism is not necessary is violation of Rev. 22;19.... And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book. 20 He which testifieth these things saith, Surely I come quickly. Amen. Even so, come, Lord Jesus. (Also two other books of the Bible).

 

[peldom10]

......timed out.....

The radical leftist repeat the same old ......non bible supported position....... since the 1960's.....in hopes of gaining acceptance thru repetition.( the reason for publication of talking points paper).

To the learned and watchful convicted Christian...that will never happen.

 

[DavidTree]

According to the word as confirmed numerous times sins are remitted upon obedience to water baptism.

You note part of Peter's message. However, it continues with specific instructions that result in one's sin being remitted. Note verses 40 and 41. Peter told them what to do to save themselves. It was after they obeyed his message that they were accepted.

Also, Ananias was sent by God to instruct Paul what was required of him. He told Paul to submit to baptism in order to wash away his sins. (Acts 22:14-16)

"Now when they heard this, they were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men and brethren, what shall we do?
38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
39 For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.
40 And with many other words did he testify and exhort, saying, Save yourselves from this untoward generation.
41 Then they that gladly received his word were baptized: and the same day there were added unto them about three thousand souls.
42 And they continued stedfastly in the apostles' doctrine...



"And he said, The God of our fathers hath chosen thee, that thou shouldest know his will, and see that Just One, and shouldest hear the voice of his mouth.
15 For thou shalt be his witness unto all men of what thou hast seen and heard.
16 And now why tarriest thou? arise, and be baptized, and wash away thy sins, calling on the name of the Lord."(Acts 22:14-16

NOPE - NEVER Happened = not once in the Bible.

ALL sins are forgiven by the LORD, the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.
HIS Death, Burial and Resurrection Pays for it ALL.

For He Himself is our peace, who has made both one, and has broken down the middle wall of separation, having abolished in His flesh the enmity, that is, the law of commandments contained in ordinances, so as to create in Himself one new man from the two, thus making peace, and that He might reconcile them both to God in one body through the cross, thereby putting to death the enmity. And He came and preached peace to you who were afar off and to those who were near. For through Him we both have access by one Spirit to the Father.

Then Peter, filled with the Holy Spirit, said to them, “Rulers of the people and elders of Israel: If we this day are judged for a good deed done to a helpless man, by what means he has been made well, let it be known to you all, and to all the people of Israel, that by the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth, whom you crucified, whom God raised from the dead, by Him this man stands here before you whole. This is the ‘stone which was rejected by you builders, which has become the chief cornerstone.’ Nor is there salvation in any other, for there is no other name under heaven given among men by which we must be saved.”

"According to the grace of God which was given to me, as a wise master builder I have laid the foundation, and another builds on it. But let each one take heed how he builds on it. For no other foundation can anyone lay than that which is laid, which is Jesus Christ."

There is only One Place to stand for Salvation = the SOLID ROCK of CHRIST

ONLY JESUS can walk on water = you'll sink to the bottom of darkness if you place your trust in water.

water works are for amusement parks = religion

 

[DavidTree]

The truth obeyed is what was stated initially on the Day of Pentecost by Peter, who was given the keys to the kingdom by Jesus. (Acts 2:36-41) Afterward the same message was presented to all groups of humanity. (Acts 8:12-18, 9:17-18, 10:43-48, 19:1-6, 22:16) In all cases the individuals were instructed to submit to water baptism in Jesus' name and received the Holy Ghost. This actually lines up with John 3:3-5. The truth is still presented today. However, according to Jesus few will find (accept) it.

There is no mention of water baptism in John 3:1-21

Are you a catholic?

 

[birdie]

"He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned." This verse from Mark shows 2 things necessary to be saved. Most people can understand what is meant by the term "believeth", which is the first thing. Of course, "believeth" means to believe on the Lord Jesus for your salvation. The other thing necessary for salvation, according to this verse from Mark, is to be baptized. What being baptized means, however, is subject to interpretation. If we are not paying attention to how God tells us to interpret the Bible (in Psalm 78:1-2, and in Mark 4:34), we might interpret 'baptism' to mean being washed or dunked in physical water in Jesus' name. However, this seems a little bit amazing. Can physical water really contribute to one's salvation? Sure it could wash off physical dirt but what about the stain of sin? We read about the stain of sin being washed away. It is in the Bible: "That he might sanctify and cleanse it with the washing of water by the word". That is interesting. Jesus, who is the word of God, can cleanse or wash a believer so that they are free from sin and sanctified to God. The word 'baptize' means 'to wash'. Look it up in a Concordance if you need to. So, when we read in Mark 16:16: "He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned" , we can understand that it means whoever believes on the Lord Jesus Christ unto salvation and who also is washed free from the stain of sin (that means forgiven) will be saved.