Well said DP. We must study bible with the same people.
It is so hard to discuss bible with people that make a basis from one sentence in the bible.
A perfect example is the assumption it is ok to eat pork today. They quote God sent this down on a carpet and told paul to eat it. 90% of christians say yep the bible says its ok. God NEVER said it was ok but a million ppl here will disagree.
Some folks here would be surprised at how many pastors know about the time of Satan's overthrow of old with a previous world, but won't teach it in the Church because of the confusion it obviously would create in the minds of those who don't study for themselves, but just keep to traditions of men.
Here's some other ways the KJV translators translated Hebrew
tohuw ("without form") in God's Word:
Isa 45:18
18 For thus saith the LORD that created the heavens; God Himself That formed the earth and made it; He hath established it, He created it not in vain, He formed it to be inhabited: I am the LORD; and there is none else.
KJV
Yes, that "in vain" there is the same Hebrew word for "without form" in Genesis 1:2 about the earth. God said there He did NOT create the earth towhuw ("without form").
Deut 32:10
10 He found him in a desert land, and in the waste howling wilderness; He led him about, He instructed him, He kept him as the apple of His eye.
KJV
1 Sam 12:21
21 And turn ye not aside: for then should ye go after vain things, which cannot profit nor deliver; for they are vain.
KJV
Job 6:18
18 The paths of their way are turned aside; they go to nothing, and perish.
KJV
Job 12:24
24 He taketh away the heart of the chief of the people of the earth, and causeth them to wander in a wilderness where there is no way.
KJV
Isa 24:10
10 The city of confusion is broken down: every house is shut up, that no man may come in.
KJV
Isa 29:21
21 That make a man an offender for a word, and lay a snare for him that reproveth in the gate, and turn aside the just for a thing of nought.
KJV
Isa 34:11
11 But the cormorant and the bittern shall possess it; the owl also and the raven shall dwell in it: and he shall stretch out upon it the line of confusion, and the stones of emptiness.
KJV
Isa 40:17
17 All nations before Him are as nothing; and they are counted to Him less than nothing, and vanity.
KJV
Isa 41:29
29 Behold, they are all vanity; their works are nothing: their molten images are wind and confusion.
KJV
Isa 44:9
9 They that make a graven image are all of them vanity; and their delectable things shall not profit; and they are their own witnesses; they see not, nor know; that they may be ashamed.
KJV
Isa 59:4
4 None calleth for justice, nor any pleadeth for truth: they trust in vanity, and speak lies; they conceive mischief, and bring forth iniquity.
KJV
Then there is this, God speaking to Israel, saying they were "sottish" (stupid) with "none understanding":
Jer 4:23-28
23 I beheld the earth, and, lo,it was without form, and void; and the heavens, and they had no light.
24 I beheld the mountains, and, lo, they trembled, and all the hills moved lightly.
25 I beheld, and, lo, there was no man, and all the birds of the heavens were fled.
26 I beheld, and, lo, the fruitful place was a wilderness, and all the cities thereof were broken down at the presence of the LORD, and by His fierce anger.
27 For thus hath the LORD said, The whole land shall be desolate; yet will I not make a full end.
28 For this shall the earth mourn, and the heavens above be black: because I have spoken it, I have purposed it, and will not repent, neither will I turn back from it.
KJV
There that "without form, and void" phrase is again, but this time... an obvious destruction upon the earth is associated with that Hebrew tohuw va bohuw phrase.
When did God shake the earth, with the mountains trembling and all the hills moving lightly, with no man left on the earth, and all the cities on earth broken down at His fierce anger??? He did not do that shaking at the time of Noah's flood, so when did God do that first shaking of the earth?
That isn't speaking of an earthquake in one location on earth either, for all the cities were broken down! When did He first do that?
And why would the earth then mourn because of it, and the heavens (sky) above be black (i.e., storm clouds)?
Heb 12:25-29
25 See that ye refuse not Him That speaketh. For if they escaped not who refused Him That spake on earth, much more shall not we escape, if we turn away from Him That speaketh from heaven:
26 Whose voice then shook the earth: but now he hath promised, saying, "Yet once more I shake not the earth only, but also heaven.
27 And this word, "Yet once more", signifieth the removing of those things that are shaken, as of things that are made, that those things which cannot be shaken may remain.
28 Wherefore we receiving a kingdom which cannot be moved, let us have grace, whereby we may serve God acceptably with reverence and godly fear:
29 For our God is a consuming fire.
KJV
"Yet once more"????
Well when was the FIRST shaking of this earth on that LEVEL?
Don't try to tell me that is about some earthquake of history in one location on the earth. Hebrews is comparing the future shaking of this earth by God in final with His Kingdom to come manifesting and destroying man's work off the earth, with that same level of shaking that happened once before. But when was that once before?
Our Heavenly Father has shown us these things, but many are completely oblivious to them, revealing that same condition Israel was in there at Jeremiah 4.