Should we hope for salvation if we're saved ?...... yes or no correct version.

[eternally-gratefull]

I answered this post in a previous thread..

tell me why do you asume that you may have eternal life is the same as you will have eternal life ?

You highlighted the wrong words.

That you may know THAT YOU HAVE ETERNAL LIFE.

The point is, John spent a whole letter telling us things to assure us that we HAVE eternal life (not might have) and this fact of life (we have eternal life) should be the basis to keep us believing in Christ when people/satan/life tries to tell us God does not love us, and we are not secure. When people try to say eternal life is not eternal but conditional to things we do or do not do. or how good we are.. All we need to do is read Johns love letters (his gospels and epistles) to know we are secure in Christ, because we are IN CHRIST.. He made the promise, and he will not go back on HIS WORD, and he is trustworthy.

 

[Desertsrose]

Like i said Salvation is a one time event that hasnt happend yet.. i cant see how much more i have to write to convince people here that they are to put on the helmet of hope for salvation..

I cant change black to pink i just cant.. and if you want to know famous people that have turned to the muslim faith then just use Google.

Hi Jimbo,

It helps me understand scripture when I read a little before and a little after. Although sometimes it helps to read chapters before and chapters after to understand the context. But that's not necessary in this case. LOL!

Paul speaking to the Thessalonians.

Now as to the times and the epochs, brethren, you have no need of anything to be written to you. For you yourselves know full well that the day of the Lord will come just like a thief in the night. While they are saying, “Peace and safety!” then destruction will come upon them suddenly like labor pains upon a woman with child, and they will not escape.

But you, brethren, are not in darkness, that the day would overtake you like a thief; for you are all sons of light and sons of day. We are not of night nor of darkness; so then let us not sleep as others do, but let us be alert and sober.

For those who sleep do their sleeping at night, and those who get drunk get drunk at night. But since we are of the day, let us be sober, having put on the breastplate of faith and love, and as a helmet, the hope of salvation.

For God has not destined us for wrath, but for obtaining salvation through our Lord Jesus Christ, who died for us, so that whether we are awake or asleep, we will live together with Him. Therefore encourage one another and build up one another, just as you also are doing. 1 Thessalonians 5:1-11

So in context, Paul is telling the Thessalonians that the Day of the Lord will come like a thief in the night. But we are not in darkness that the Day of the Lord will overtake us as a thief. And because we are of the light and not walking in darkness we're being told to be sober and alert, looking forward to that Day and be prepared for it.

God doesn't have wrath for His children - what awaits us is salvation through Jesus Christ our Lord and Savior who has given us assurance of salvation if we are truly in Christ.

Paul goes on to encourage them because they are of the light as a born-again believer, we're to be sober wearing our breastplate of faith and love as an encouragement to stay and abide in Jesus and we are to wear the helmet - the hope of our salvation.

This type of hope is assurance. We look towards our salvation because we've been assured of it if we abide in Jesus.

Paul said this is the type of hope is one that doesn't disappoint in Romans 5. ...and hope does not disappoint, because the love of God has been poured out within our hearts through the Holy Spirit who was given to us.

We really are assured of salvation if we continue in the faith. I believe some will shipwreck their faith, Jesus said there will be a great apostasy and many will abandon the faith. Maybe they weren't really saved, but they had the opportunity right there and they rejected it.

From God's point of view, He never knew them, because God knows those who are His, but from the man's point of view who thinks he's saved, it's a very grave thing for him. Because for the man or woman who think they're following the faith, it's many of them who will end up turning away because their hearts will grow cold in the last days.

They are the ones that will apostatize so for them they didn't have assurance of salvation nor did they have hope of salvation or at least not the true hope because they really didn't know God to begin with.

 

[JIMBO43]

Hi Jimbo,

It helps me understand scripture when I read a little before and a little after. Although sometimes it helps to read chapters before and chapters after to understand the context. But that's not necessary in this case. LOL!

Paul speaking to the Thessalonians.

Now as to the times and the epochs, brethren, you have no need of anything to be written to you. For you yourselves know full well that the day of the Lord will come just like a thief in the night. While they are saying, “Peace and safety!” then destruction will come upon them suddenly like labor pains upon a woman with child, and they will not escape.

But you, brethren, are not in darkness, that the day would overtake you like a thief; for you are all sons of light and sons of day. We are not of night nor of darkness; so then let us not sleep as others do, but let us be alert and sober.

For those who sleep do their sleeping at night, and those who get drunk get drunk at night. But since we are of the day, let us be sober, having put on the breastplate of faith and love, and as a helmet, the hope of salvation.

For God has not destined us for wrath, but for obtaining salvation through our Lord Jesus Christ, who died for us, so that whether we are awake or asleep, we will live together with Him. Therefore encourage one another and build up one another, just as you also are doing. 1 Thessalonians 5:1-11

So in context, Paul is telling the Thessalonians that the Day of the Lord will come like a thief in the night. But we are not in darkness that the Day of the Lord will overtake us as a thief. And because we are of the light and not walking in darkness we're being told to be sober and alert, looking forward to that Day and be prepared for it.

God doesn't have wrath for His children - what awaits us is salvation through Jesus Christ our Lord and Savior who has given us assurance of salvation if we are truly in Christ.

Paul goes on to encourage them because they are of the light as a born-again believer, we're to be sober wearing our breastplate of faith and love as an encouragement to stay and abide in Jesus and we are to wear the helmet - the hope of our salvation.

This type of hope is assurance. We look towards our salvation because we've been assured of it if we abide in Jesus.

Paul said this is the type of hope is one that doesn't disappoint in Romans 5. ...and hope does not disappoint, because the love of God has been poured out within our hearts through the Holy Spirit who was given to us.

We really are assured of salvation if we continue in the faith. I believe some will shipwreck their faith, Jesus said there will be a great apostasy and many will abandon the faith. Maybe they weren't really saved, but they had the opportunity right there and they rejected it.

From God's point of view, He never knew them, because God knows those who are His, but from the man's point of view who thinks he's saved, it's a very grave thing for him. Because for the man or woman who think they're following the faith, it's many of them who will end up turning away because their hearts will grow cold in the last days.

They are the ones that will apostatize so for them they didn't have assurance of salvation nor did they have hope of salvation or at least not the true hope because they really didn't know God to begin with.

hi rose

Your most welcome to post and a pleasure reading. I have certainly read the the whole chapter. I can see the warnings and the hope and the faith and the eternal life.

What i cant see is assuming we have recieved salvation which is what my thread is all about.
Its not about arguing that once saved always saved its about salvation,,, the two are seperate diffrent meanings diffrent Goal.

To be saved By Jesus is easy we all know that the hard part is running the race and finishing in the elite.
We see endless verses of God testing his elite to see if there faith is strong such as abraham and Job as two prime examles.

You know he wouldnt test you if you didnt have free will,,,, what does this mean ? for me it means your faith is something that belongs to you,,, youve studied youve beat sin youve torn down walls and youve grown in your faith and love.

Youve matured you know right from wrong but still some rights you havent giving up like your own rights,, like the right to have a ciggerette or the right to be a man.. or the right to do what you want when you want ,,,(the biggest hurdle).

Now our father knows each and every one of us individually (a personal relation ship and also a private one theres nothing are father would do to put one of his own in harms way.

Our father will never forsake us or leave us my favorite verse joshua 1.9 Then you’ll get where you’re going; then you’ll succeed. Haven’t I commanded you? Strength! Courage! Don’t be timid; don’t get discouraged. God, your God, is with you every step you take.”

God is with all the way he will come after his lost too,,

But as the scripture say he that endureth to the end will be saved (salvation)

But he that abandons his faith has got lost by himself in some case he has Got lost because of temptation He has a chance and so does the one who abandons his faith .. because why because saved and salvation has two diffrent meanings.. why ? because Jesus saved many in the new testement he was the only person to ever truly warn us about demons and what he says about them are 100 percent true ive had first hand experince of them.

Jesus was the only man who truly warned us about them,, he was truly spiritual his spirit was enough to beat the flesh only him could do that..now its possible we can walk in spirit to when where walking and hoping we i believe spiritual gifts come your way you can see the bad spirit at work and you can the concerned spirit,,, its a gift to see the intents on someones mind face face... its then when you see they need help.

I love to lift up those who are concerned in the spirit and be a guardian i also love to confront bad demons..

when i say bad demons i mean peoples state of mind can be a bad state of gremlins..

There you have we can be saved more than once but we can never lose salvation...

Jesus pointed out you can be saved more than once because he the person who he rid legions of demons he said beware because they can come back.. Jesus saved this guy and he was prepared to save him again.. so once saved always saved has totaly the wrong meaning in my book it should once saved and once saved again because we are told to die to self daily and put on are armor daily.

 

[JIMBO43]

You highlighted the wrong words.

That you may know THAT YOU HAVE ETERNAL LIFE.

The point is, John spent a whole letter telling us things to assure us that we HAVE eternal life (not might have) and this fact of life (we have eternal life) should be the basis to keep us believing in Christ when people/satan/life tries to tell us God does not love us, and we are not secure. When people try to say eternal life is not eternal but conditional to things we do or do not do. or how good we are.. All we need to do is read Johns love letters (his gospels and epistles) to know we are secure in Christ, because we are IN CHRIST.. He made the promise, and he will not go back on HIS WORD, and he is trustworthy.

I know what your saying and i can see your point,, but we have eternal life regaurdless as it is written the soul can also recieve eternal damnation..

I write this so you know you have eternal life (make sence in this meaning?.. yes no ?.

In another sence i write this so you know you have a chance of eternal life so you may know that you do ? (make sence yes no ?)

In another sence i write this because if you carry on to believe and endure to the end you will have etenal life ? (make sence yes no ?.

Ok now moving on how many scripturea are they that says your salvation is on the day of redemption ?

How many scriptures is there that says it is not ?

 

[JIMBO43]

Effective Prayer


12Whoever has the Son has life; whoever does not have the Son of God does not have life. (enteral life with the kingdom) 13I have written these things to you who believe in the name of the Son of God,(many have believed and many have chosen to be with satan..even the angels did)..

so that you may know that you have eternal life. (dont you want to know that you have eternal life ?.(another sence) 14And this is the confidence that we have before Him: If we ask anything according to His will, He hears us.…


This is the only scripture i have been shown toward the people in favor of no where not to hope for salvation.

I have seeen dozens of threads that salvation is on the day of redemtion.

The above scripture mentions nothing about you recieveing salvation as soon as your saved. (it just doesnt)

 

[JIMBO43]

Those whom He has saved will keep on truly believing, . His salvation is HIS act of grace. He will never lose any who are His (John 6.37-39, 10.27-29).




Not as far as God saving me is concerned (Eph 1.3 onwards,




examples????



For any whom God has saved.

i hope you can see all my answers in the above posts

 

[JIMBO43]

Matthew 6:9–13 (ESV) "Pray then like this: 'Our Father in heaven, hallowed be your name. Your kingdom come, your will be done, on earth as it is in heaven. Give us this day our daily bread, and forgive us our debts, as we also have forgiven our debtors. And lead us not into temptation, but deliver us from evil.'

tell me why is there need to ask God to deliver us from evil daily if we are the done deal ?....

 

[JIMBO43]

As we are being saved walking in obedience to the Savior from our heart we have the hope of eternal salvation, therefore we have the earnest of the Spirit that cannot lie to see us through if we continue in the faith, and he that endures to the end the SAME shall be saved said Jesus....Its all about man working together with God to bring about an everlasting relationship of love that cannot be achieved by any other means...It takes two to love and form a fellowship....stay on the straight and narrow working out your own salvation with fear and trembling and He will do a good work in you for His own good pleasure...For He is determined that all things work for good for those that love and obey Him.....

may i add amen bro..

 

[JIMBO43]

Our hope is certain in Christ because being in the faith is determined as fulfilled.

There are a lot of times in the original Greek the "if" is actually a statement of it is determined as fulfilled.....

It is called "a condition of the first class"..... Colossians 1:23 is a prime example:

Colossians 1:23 (NASB)
[SUP]23 [/SUP] if indeed you continue in the faith firmly established and steadfast, and not moved away from the hope of the gospel that you have heard, which was proclaimed in all creation under heaven, and of which I, Paul, was made a minister.


If so be that ye continue in the faith (ei ge epimenete tēi pistei).

Condition of the first class (determined as fulfilled),

Word Pictures in the New Testament. A. T. Robertson Greek Scholar



Sort of like this....you are going to the bank..and I say to you.... "If" you are going to be at the bank ( determined as already fulfilled )...get me $100 bucks.

I'll take a check too...

are you a faith alone believer based upon one sentence in the bible..? ill take a check to thanks

 

[JIMBO43]

you clearly don't know your greek. there are in fact two days of salvation. The first when God saves me and guarantees my ultimate salvation. I have been saved once for all. The second is when He brings that to final completion.

yes if you see being saved as salvation,,, but i call it a type of salvation and not the done deal....

 

[psalm6819]

Maybe you should read John 17

 

[JIMBO43]

Maybe you should read John 17

i have its not a forgone conclusion if you abandon your faith... cause its clear your reading the first type of salvation... maybe you should read the whole book.......but the book wont save you

 

[Sully]

yes if you see being saved as salvation,,, but i call it a type of salvation and not the done deal....

Ten characters...and...fixed

 

[JIMBO43]

words that have instructions from God are meaningless if the works of the word are not followed .........God bless

 

[mailmandan]

yes if you see being saved as salvation,,, but i call it a type of salvation and not the done deal....

We have been saved from the PENALTY of sin (justification - Romans 5:1); we are being saved from the POWER of sin (ongoing sanctification - 1 Corinthians 1:18); we will be saved from the PRESENCE of sin (glorification - Romans 8:30).

 

[JesusRules1]

Heb 10:38 Now the just shall live by faith: but if any man draw back, my soul shall have no pleasure in him.
Heb 10:39 But we are not of them who draw back unto perdition; but of them that believe to the saving of the soul.

The Bible would not have warnings if it were not possible that it could happen,and would not tell of us scenarios that could happen if it were impossible for it to happen.

It is obvious that if there are warnings in the Bible telling of certain scenarios that a person can fall victim to then it is possible that it could happen.

Heb 10:38 Now the just shall live by faith: but if any man draw back, my soul shall have no pleasure in him.
Heb 10:39 But we are not of them who draw back unto perdition; but of them that believe to the saving of the soul.

Read it,read it close,for if any man draw back from the faith,God will have no pleasure in them,and it is possible that a person can draw back unto perdition if they are not careful,which that does not sound good,and sounds scary as the dickens,and sounds like they would not be saved.

Faith alone,not by works-when we first come to Christ.

A person is justified by works,and not faith alone-after we receive the Spirit.

What do people not get about that and try to place faith alone throughout their walk with God,when it is faith alone when you confess Christ,and a person is justified by works,and not faith alone,after they receive the Spirit.

It is possible for a person to withdraw from the faith,and draw back unto perdition,if they do not conduct themselves according to the Christian lifestyle,for the Bible would not say it is possible if it is not possible.

The Bible does not have to give warnings,and scenarios,of things that could happen,if it were not possible to happen.

And this withdrawing of the faith is not that they erred on earth,but does not affect their salvation,for the Bible says if they withdraw back from the faith,God will have no pleasure in them,and they draw back unto perdition,which I do not think that is another word for paradise,although OSAS might try to make it so to cover their butt.

Faith is believing in a kingdom that they cannot see,and a God that they cannot see,but it has to be more than believing in that kingdom,and God,for they must believe according to how that kingdom,and God operates,and abide by that,for to not believe,and abide,by how that kingdom,and God operates,is to not have the proper faith.

The kingdom is based on love.

If anyone thinks that living for God is material,and monetary gain,and teach such,withdraw from them,having food and clothing,be content,and those who covet after money have erred from the faith,for the love of money is the root of all evil,for it violates the 2 greatest laws,love God,and love people,for it neglects the poor and needy.

If any person has this world's goods,money above their needs,and they do not help people with their needs,the love of God does not dwell in them.

If a person does not help the poor and needy if they have the possibility to help them,then faith without works is dead,or if they do not have the monetary resources to help them,help them with their needs where they can.

God only blesses with our needs,not our wants,and to go above that,and a person has erred from the faith.

For the kingdom is based on love,and we have to have faith in the kingdom in the right perspective or it is not true faith.

God hates sin,and wants us to abstain from it by the Holy Spirit,and that is why Jesus came to shed blood to take away our sins,in which we can receive the Spirit and abstain from sin,and be right with God.

Those who have the attitude they cannot abstain from sin,and they cannot help but to sin once in a while,have erred from the faith,and do not have the proper perspective concerning God that He hates sin,and to abstain from sin by the Holy Spirit,and if you do sin get rid of it and do not hold unto it.

Some people withdraw from the faith because they do not have the right perspective of the faith,or they do not care,and in that condition,have withdrawn from the faith,because they do not abide by how that kingdom,and God operates,but want to do it their way according to the flesh.

Faith is believing in a kingdom that is love,and helps people with their needs,and only go by their needs,and believing in a God that hates sin,and to abstain from it by the Spirit,and anything short of that and they have erred from the faith.

 

[mailmandan]

Heb 10:39 But we are not of them who draw back unto perdition; but of them that believe to the saving of the soul.

*Key verse. Those who draw back to perdition do not believe to the saving of the soul. Those who believe to the saving of the soul do not draw back to perdition.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Should we hope for salvation if where saved... yes or no........

I dont want to take anyones hope of salvation away but i would like for people to hope for salvation.

(Matthew 24:13) "But he who shall endure to the end, the same shall be saved."

(my interpratation of this we can be saved until the end but salvation comes at the end..

(Mark 16:16 RPT) "He who believed and was baptised shall be saved;"(Ahain it speaks of being saved untill the end but doesnt include salvation.

(Acts 15:11) "But we believe that through the grace of our Lord Jesus Christ we shall be saved, even as they."

Again this saying you are saved your on the right path so to speak..


(Romans 13:11) "for now is our salvation nearer than when we believed.

"Of course it is because youve excepted Jesus but please note this mentions nearer meaning your salvation hasnt been declared yet..

(you are to hope and pray for it.)

(Philippians 2:12) "work out your own salvation with fear and trembling."

(keep the faith).

(1 Peter 1:5 RPT) "Who are being kept by the power of God through faith for salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.".

(this scipture well and truly points out you can be saved until the end but salvation isnt for us to decide rather we are to work out are own salvation without fear or trembling.. and for me there is only one way to work this out and that is as long as you keep the faith and dont abandon it then your salvation is nearer to the end..



As you can all see that he that endureth to the end is truly saved (salvation..)

the question is pretty silly. In fact, I had a chuckle when I read it..

If your saved, Your saved based on hope. If you have no hope. Most likely, your not saved, and still trying to get saved.

Your either saved or your not.. Trust Jesus, and stop tryusting yourself.

 

[psalm6819]

Amen EG. It is sad that anyone would think that the sacrifice of Jesus, the love of the Father and the sealing of the Holy Spirit are not enough.

 

[Adstar]

I am currently in a state of salvation.. If i died now i would have eternity with God..