Grace alone or grace plus works?

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Is salvation by Grace alone?

  • Salvation Is by Grace alone through faith.

    Votes: 42 87.5%
  • Salvation Is by Grace through faith plus works

    Votes: 6 12.5%

  • Total voters
    48

DJ2

Senior Member
Apr 15, 2017
1,660
57
48
DJ2 and TruthTalk, are you proud of yourselves??
What did I write to be ashamed of?

I am like most people here, attempting to advance the kingdom of God. I did not insult preacher4truth, read the posts yourselves. It was I who was insulted, I was simply pointing this out to him in a straight forward manner.

Do not read anything more into my words.
 

valiant

Senior Member
Mar 22, 2015
8,025
124
63
Paul says it s "by grace through faith" and is "not of works". Thus neither of the two choices given in the poll are correct. One choice adds the word "alone" and the other adds works.
Then what would you add to God's unmerited gift?
 

JaumeJ

Senior Member
Jul 2, 2011
21,231
6,529
113
Faith is akin to gold to God. What kind of servant are you? Will you take your talent of gold and bury it to no profit for the mMster where it will only get dirty? Or will you work to increase it for Him?

Mat 25:14 For the kingdom of heaven is as a man travelling into a far country, who called his own servants, and delivered unto them his goods.
Mat 25:15 And unto one he gave five talents, to another two, and to another one; to every man according to his several ability; and straightway took his journey.
Mat 25:16 Then he that had received the five talents went and traded with the same, and made them other five talents.
Mat 25:17 And likewise he that had received two, he also gained other two.
Mat 25:18 But he that had received one went and digged in the earth, and hid his lord's money.
Mat 25:19 After a long time the lord of those servants cometh, and reckoneth with them.
Mat 25:20 And so he that had received five talents came and brought other five talents, saying, Lord, thou deliveredst unto me five talents: behold, I have gained beside them five talents more.
Mat 25:21 His lord said unto him, Well done, thou good and faithful servant: thou hast been faithful over a few things, I will make thee ruler over many things: enter thou into the joy of thy lord.
Mat 25:22 He also that had received two talents came and said, Lord, thou deliveredst unto me two talents: behold, I have gained two other talents beside them.
Mat 25:23 His lord said unto him, Well done, good and faithful servant; thou hast been faithful over a few things, I will make thee ruler over many things: enter thou into the joy of thy lord.
Mat 25:24 Then he which had received the one talent came and said, Lord, I knew thee that thou art an hard man, reaping where thou hast not sown, and gathering where thou hast not strawed:
Mat 25:25 And I was afraid, and went and hid thy talent in the earth: lo, there thou hast that is thine.
Mat 25:26 His lord answered and said unto him, Thou wicked and slothful servant, thou knewest that I reap where I sowed not, and gather where I have not strawed:

Mat 25:27 Thou oughtest therefore to have put my money to the exchangers, and then at my coming I should have received mine own with usury.

Mat 25:28 Take therefore the talent from him, and give it unto him which hath ten talents.
Mat 25:29 For unto every one that hath shall be given, and he shall have abundance: but from him that hath not shall be taken away even that which he hath.
Mat 25:30 And cast ye the unprofitable servant into outer darkness: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.
 

DJ2

Senior Member
Apr 15, 2017
1,660
57
48
so you can;t prove me wrong.

loving others and putting their needs above my own, is that wrong?

I guess Jesus was wrong. And thats not the way to overcome sin. Thanks..
loving others and putting their needs above my own, is that wrong?
Of course doing these things are not wrong but claiming to be doing it does not equal proof of doing it.
 

BillG

Senior Member
Feb 15, 2017
8,879
4,334
113
I agree, if I ignore all the people who dislike me, I’d end up talking to myself.
I wouldn't be talking to myself as I don't like me either
 
G

Galatea

Guest
I wouldn't be talking to myself as I don't like me either
I don’t particularly like myself, but I know my motives are usually good, so I know me at least. I can not misunderstand myself.
 

notmyown

Senior Member
May 26, 2016
4,696
1,127
113
I don’t particularly like myself, but I know my motives are usually good, so I know me at least. I can not misunderstand myself.
you must be alone on planet earth in that regard. lol
 
G

Galatea

Guest
you must be alone on planet earth in that regard. lol
I did not write that I understand myself. I wrote that I can not misunderstand myself, two entirely different things.

You misunderstood my post, I did not.

I misunderstand others and am misunderstood- but I can not misunderstand myself.
 

notmyown

Senior Member
May 26, 2016
4,696
1,127
113
I did not write that I understand myself. I wrote that I can not misunderstand myself, two entirely different things.

You misunderstood my post, I did not.

I misunderstand others and am misunderstood- but I can not misunderstand myself.
the heart is deceitful and desperately wicked. who can know it?
 

mailmandan

Senior Member
Apr 7, 2014
25,043
13,050
113
58
But what was the behavior that needed to be changed and repented of in the first place? Are we not to repent from lawless deeds?
We are to repent "change our mind" about our sinful position and need for Christ to save us and the new direction of this change of mind is faith in Christ for salvation. Two sides to the same coin. Turning from lawless deeds/producing fruit in keeping with repentance is the fruit of repentance.
 

mailmandan

Senior Member
Apr 7, 2014
25,043
13,050
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Acts 5:32 And we are his witnesses of these things; and so is also the Holy Ghost, whom God hath given to them that obey him.
Those who repent and believe the gospel have obeyed Him unto receiving the Holy Spirit. Choosing to believe the gospel is the act of obedience that saves. Romans 10:16 - But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Isaiah says, "Lord, who has believed our report?"

Romans 1:16 - For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ for it is the power of God unto salvation to everyone that believes..

Ephesians 1:13 - In Him, you also, after listening to the message of truth, the gospel of your salvation—having also believed, you were sealed in Him with the Holy Spirit of promise.
 
Jun 5, 2017
3,675
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0
Those who repent and believe the gospel have obeyed Him unto receiving the Holy Spirit. Choosing to believe the gospel is the act of obedience that saves. Romans 10:16 - But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Isaiah says, "Lord, who has believed our report?"

Romans 1:16 - For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ for it is the power of God unto salvation to everyone that believes..

Ephesians 1:13 - In Him, you also, after listening to the message of truth, the gospel of your salvation—having also believed, you were sealed in Him with the Holy Spirit of promise.
This is true for the BELIEVERS. These are those that BELIEVE and FOLLOW ALL the WORD of GOD. Those that are still in their SINS are not followers of HIM who LOVES all. To the ignorant God winks at but those that have received a KNOWLEDGE of the TRUTH and reject it DO NOT have the HOLY SPIRIT because they have DENIED HIM who loves all and are still in their SINS and do not KNOW HIM.

IF you are holding on to the teachings and traditions of men that break the commandments of God Jesus says you are not following God

This includes the 4th commandment which is one of the ten (Exodus 20:8-11). If we break one of God's commandments we stand guilty before God of breaking them all (James 2:8-12)

Sunday worship is a tradition and teaching of man that has lead many to break the commandments of God. Jesus says that if we follow the traditions of man that break the commandments of God we are not following God (Matthew 15:3-9)

Who should we follow the teachings and traditions of men or the Word of God? Who should we believe the Words of men or the Word of God?
 

Studyman

Senior Member
Oct 11, 2017
3,570
516
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Those who repent and believe the gospel have obeyed Him unto receiving the Holy Spirit. Choosing to believe the gospel is the act of obedience that saves. Romans 10:16 - But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Isaiah says, "Lord, who has believed our report?"

Romans 1:16 - For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ for it is the power of God unto salvation to everyone that believes..

Ephesians 1:13 - In Him, you also, after listening to the message of truth, the gospel of your salvation—having also believed, you were sealed in Him with the Holy Spirit of promise.
So what if I say I believe in the Gospel, I say I have faith in Jesus for salvation. But I am openly living in transgression of God's Commandments by my own traditions?
 

Studyman

Senior Member
Oct 11, 2017
3,570
516
113
We are to repent "change our mind" about our sinful position and need for Christ to save us and the new direction of this change of mind is faith in Christ for salvation. Two sides to the same coin. Turning from lawless deeds/producing fruit in keeping with repentance is the fruit of repentance.
I am a simpleton Dan, so please just plain answers if you would be so kind.

What was the behavior that needed to be repented of in the first place? Was it disobedience to God's Law that caused my death and subsequent need for Jesus and HIS Salvation?
 

mailmandan

Senior Member
Apr 7, 2014
25,043
13,050
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So what if I say I believe in the Gospel, I say I have faith in Jesus for salvation. But I am openly living in transgression of God's Commandments by my own traditions?
1 John 2:3 - Now by this we know that we know Him, (demonstrative evidence) if we keep His commandments. 4 He who says, "I know Him," and does not keep His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him. What does the Greek word "tereo" for "keep" mean?

1 John 3:7 - Little children, make sure no one deceives you; the one who practices righteousness is righteous, just as He is righteous; 8 the one who practices sin is of the devil; for the devil has sinned from the beginning. The Son of God appeared for this purpose, to destroy the works of the devil. 9 No one who is born of God practices sin, because His seed abides in him; and he cannot sin, because he is born of God. 10 By this the children of God and the children of the devil are obvious: anyone who does not practice righteousness is not of God, nor the one who does not love his brother.
 

JaumeJ

Senior Member
Jul 2, 2011
21,231
6,529
113
Faith without works is no faith at all. You may as well bury your talent in the dirt where it becomes useless and soiled. When it come time to show what you have done with your gift yo will be considered a worthless servant and cast out into the darkeness wehre there will be weekping and gnashing of teeth.

Invest at leat....... if not start your own works business and increase your gift in others...spread the faith.

Otherwise you do not really have faith, simply an idle boast, false pride...
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
We are to repent "change our mind" about our sinful position and need for Christ to save us and the new direction of this change of mind is faith in Christ for salvation. Two sides to the same coin. Turning from lawless deeds/producing fruit in keeping with repentance is the fruit of repentance.
I do not get how people think sometimes.

Imagine a person there thinking he is lost and needs to be saved, because there is this hell and he does not want to be there. So he hears about this repent and sinners prayer. So he CLAIMS to have repented, and call out to Jesus to be saved,

And then one of two things happen.

1. All he wanted was a get out of Jail free card/. And his prayer was it, he goes on and lives his life like he always had. And these people thinks he was saved and lost it.

2. Because he still fears hell. He continues in the body, He stops some sin in performance based repentance. (Self effort) and he is blessed by being around believers who are blessed by God. He has some sins, but he hides them from the group out of fear he may get caught. This can go on for months, a years years or even decades. Then one day, Something happens. He loses his job, A loved one dies, Something else major occurs. And since he has no true repent6ance and faith to begin with, He walks away,. And goes back to his true self. A life of sin. He forgot obout his fear.. his anger and lust for sin became much greater again. And as a dog, he returned to his vomit.

Yet again, These people think he was actually saved at one time and lost it.

SMH!!