Once Saved, Always Saved ... OR Can you Lose your Salvation?

[Chester]

So have you heard enuff yet?

Laurie,
If you want more, go to the thread "Verse for Once Saved Always Saved?". Look through that thread and you will find there is no verse that clearly state the doctrine of OSAS. It is a doctrine derived from an overall study of the meaning of Scripture rather than the meaning of any specific text.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Laurie,
If you want more, go to the thread "Verse for Once Saved Always Saved?". Look through that thread and you will find there is no verse that clearly state the doctrine of OSAS. It is a doctrine derived from an overall study of the meaning of Scripture rather than the meaning of any specific text.

Or she could go to 1John 5, who tells us we can KNOW we have ETERNAL LIFE and by this continue to believe in hs name

and she could look up the word eternal to see how long that is and if it can ever stop,

and then maybe she can like so many before her realise that john is saying that what keeps us from falling from faith is the know we are eternally secure in Christ

 

[MarcR]

Would love to hear different points of view on this and Scirptural support of your view if you have it.

1 John 5:11-13
11 And this is the record, that God hath given to us eternal life, and this life is in his Son.
12 He that hath the Son hath life; and he that hath not the Son of God hath not life.
13 These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that ye have eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God.
KJV

If God hath given to us eternal life then we can't loose it because, if we could loose it, it wasn't eternal when we had it.

Lord means Owner [as is clearly evident in the word landlord].


Lev 25:47-52
47 And if a sojourner or stranger wax rich by thee, and thy brother that dwelleth by him wax poor, and sell himself unto the stranger or sojourner by thee, or to the stock of the stranger's family:
48 After that he is sold he may be redeemed again; one of his brethren may redeem him:
49 Either his uncle, or his uncle's son, may redeem him, or any that is nigh of kin unto him of his family may redeem him; or if he be able, he may redeem himself.
50 And he shall reckon with him that bought him from the year that he was sold to him unto the year of jubilee: and the price of his sale shall be according unto the number of years, according to the time of an hired servant shall it be with him.
51 If there be yet many years behind, according unto them he shall give again the price of his redemption out of the money that he was bought for.
52 And if there remain but few years unto the year of jubilee, then he shall count with him, and according unto his years shall he give him again the price of his redemption.
KJV


Jesus' blood was the price of our redemption from bondage to sin. That price of redemption conveys the right of ownership.

1 Cor 6:19-20
19 What? know ye not that your body is the temple of the Holy Ghost which is in you, which ye have of God, and ye are not your own?
20 For ye are bought with a price: therefore glorify God in your body, and in your spirit, which are God's.
KJV

 

[Chester]

Or she could go to 1John 5, who tells us we can KNOW we have ETERNAL LIFE and by this continue to believe in hs name

and she could look up the word eternal to see how long that is and if it can ever stop,

and then maybe she can like so many before her realise that john is saying that what keeps us from falling from faith is the know we are eternally secure in Christ

Or, instead of using the English definition for "eternal", she could use what John himself said he means by "eternal life" in John 17:3:

And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.


And then maybe she can like so many before her realize that as she believes in Jesus Christ, He keeps her secure and safe and gives her an intimate and close knowledge of himself (see John 17:3 - this is the concept of the Greek word "zoe" - life).

What keeps her from falling is that ongoing relationship with her Redeemer! (not a point in time transaction in past time LOL!) ​

[SUB][/SUB]

 

[SpoonJuly]

Or, instead of using the English definition for "eternal", she could use what John himself said he means by "eternal life" in John 17:3:

And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.


And then maybe she can like so many before her realize that as she believes in Jesus Christ, He keeps her secure and safe and gives her an intimate and close knowledge of himself (see John 17:3 - this is the concept of the Greek word "zoe" - life).

What keeps her from falling is that ongoing relationship with her Redeemer! (not a point in time transaction in past time LOL!) ​

You people can keep trusting in yourself to keep salvation if you wish, I will trust in Jesus to keep me saved.

 

[Chester]

If God hath given to us eternal life then we can't loose it because, if we could loose it, it wasn't eternal when we had it.

The problems with your statement is at least two things:

(1) You are simply using human understanding to try to explain something heavenly: In other words, your statement is human reasoning ("common sense") and not what Scripture says.

(2) You are using and are stuck on the English definition of "eternal". Eternal is the adjective that describes the Greek word "zoe" (life). The definition of Zoe (the noun) needs to be the starting point of your definition. John 17:3 gives John's own definition of "eternal life":

And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent. Eternal life first of all has to do more with a relationship (a knowledge) of God than with the idea of living forever.

"Once saved always saved" winds up putting the emphasis of "eternal life" on the idea that I will live forever, rather than putting the emphasis on the relationship I have with the Redeemer.

Will we live forever? Of course, but this comes as we continue in the relationship (knowledge) with Jesus.

​

​

 

[Chester]

You people can keep trusting in yourself to keep salvation if you wish, I will trust in Jesus to keep me saved.

LOL! Or, as I might say, you can trust in a past time transaction to keep you saved, and I will every day lean on, grab hold of, and depend on my Redeemer (because without Him I would stand condemned as a sinner!). I need him every day and will not let go of Him no matter what you might say to me!

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Or, instead of using the English definition for "eternal", she could use what John himself said he means by "eternal life" in John 17:3:

And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.


And then maybe she can like so many before her realize that as she believes in Jesus Christ, He keeps her secure and safe and gives her an intimate and close knowledge of himself (see John 17:3 - this is the concept of the Greek word "zoe" - life).

What keeps her from falling is that ongoing relationship with her Redeemer! (not a point in time transaction in past time LOL!) ​

lol.. Yes she could do that

Then she can realise you can not KNOW a person at one time and walk with them, then all of a sudden UNKNOW a person.

What keeps her from falling from faith? Her faith is in a living God who is trustworthy. Not in a self righteous, works based, knowledge of God which has no root. (Belief only apart from assurance, which is not faiht at all) which is weak, has no foundation that is study, and is at risk for crashing and buring, because it is not real faith.

That if she builds her house on the rock (christ) it can not be defeated. Because it is on strudy ground, and she will never lose faith. Or she could build her house on the sand, which is weak, and unsturdy, and her faith will easily be broken.

What keeps you from placing your assurance in christ? And building your house on the rock which will never hive you a reason to doubt?

 

[eternally-gratefull]

The problems with your statement is at least two things:

(1) You are simply using human understanding to try to explain something heavenly: In other words, your statement is human reasoning ("common sense") and not what Scripture says.

(2) You are using and are stuck on the English definition of "eternal". Eternal is the adjective that describes the Greek word "zoe" (life). The definition of Zoe (the noun) needs to be the starting point of your definition. John 17:3 gives John's own definition of "eternal life":

And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent. Eternal life first of all has to do more with a relationship (a knowledge) of God than with the idea of living forever.

"Once saved always saved" winds up putting the emphasis of "eternal life" on the idea that I will live forever, rather than putting the emphasis on the relationship I have with the Redeemer.

Will we live forever? Of course, but this comes as we continue in the relationship (knowledge) with Jesus.

​

Excuse me, But saying eternal life is not eternal is human reasoning.

Saying you have ETERNAL life at this year, but next year you do not have eternal life becausde you failed to do something (in your causde to continue to believ) is human reasoning (it states eternal life is not eternal, it is conditional)

Saying You have assurance and has built your foundation in christ, which will NEVER FAIL, yet thinking that foundation can crumble and burn causing you to lose faith is human reasoning.

Saying faith in a living God who will keep us forever in his arms is spiritual wisdom. Because it places our foundation in Christ, which will never ever let us down.

You lose faith in people who are prove to be trustworthy, You do nto lose faith in people who prove time and time again to be trustworthy.

if you think you can lose faith, I can only imagine you do not 4realise how trustworthy God is, maybe you have never experienced it.

 

[SpoonJuly]

LOL! Or, as I might say, you can trust in a past time transaction to keep you saved, and I will every day lean on, grab hold of, and depend on my Redeemer (because without Him I would stand condemned as a sinner!). I need him every day and will not let go of Him no matter what you might say to me!

So it is about you holding on to Jesus. You will not let go. Proud of your power and righteousness aren't you.
I will let Jesus hold me in His hand because He is the righteousness and all powerful one.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

So it is about you holding on to Jesus. You will not let go. Proud of your power and righteousness aren't you.
I will let Jesus hold me in His hand because He is the righteousness and all powerful one.

Amen, that is where our faith is.. The only way we could possibly lose faith is to no longer trust that God can hold us anymore. And if we believe that, did we really have faith in him to begin with?

I would say not!

 

[RickyZ]

Laurie,
If you want more, go to the thread "Verse for Once Saved Always Saved?". Look through that thread and you will find there is no verse that clearly state the doctrine of OSAS. It is a doctrine derived from an overall study of the meaning of Scripture rather than the meaning of any specific text.

...while completely ignoring other specific texts.

 

[notuptome]

...while completely ignoring other specific texts.

One mans supposed ignorance is the others sound doctrine. You cannot be rooted and grounded in Christ if you are not eternally secure. You will always be tossed about and unstable in all your ways. James teaches this simple truth.

Every text you use to refute the security of the believer in Christ in proper context proves the security of the believer.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[eternally-gratefull]

One mans supposed ignorance is the others sound doctrine. You cannot be rooted and grounded in Christ if you are not eternally secure. You will always be tossed about and unstable in all your ways. James teaches this simple truth.

Every text you use to refute the security of the believer in Christ in proper context proves the security of the believer.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

Amen and as john said, it is the knowledge we HAVE eternal life which is the root of our faith.

 

[mcubed]

The same way he got you saved is the same way he'll keep you saved...........through your believing.

Keep believing.

He got me saved by believing? Who did Messiah? Or did He get me saved because He is the sacrificial lamb that fulfilled the Laws requirements of atonement. So He did not get me saved thru my believing. He got me saved by being Messiah/ G-d. If G-d reveals to me Messiah can He not keep revealing Him to me? I mean He keeps scantisfying us until we have the fluffiness of our salvation... Is G-d unable to keep His children, He can only keep the whole universe but not His children? Maybe "they" were never saved to begin with..... Yes, I believed His is Messiah and confessed Him with my mouth.... But where did that even come from? Before salvation I was at enmity with G-d.

 

[Stunnedbygrace]

Scantisfying...? lol/ just being silly, sorry.
Actually, your whole sentence is adorable: He keeps scantisfying us until we have the fluffiness of our salvation.

 

[Stunnedbygrace]

Scantisfying...? lol/ just being silly, sorry.
Actually, your whole sentence is adorable: He keeps scantisfying us until we have the fluffiness of our salvation.

So I gotta ask, mcubed, you got a verse to back this up?

 

[Stunnedbygrace]

Did you do something really mean to spellchick that she would treat you this way?

 

[Ralph-]

So it is about you holding on to Jesus. You will not let go. Proud of your power and righteousness aren't you.

No more proud of our power than you are of your power and righteousness when you first got saved.


Yes, I know, you had no pride in your power and righteousness to believe and be saved on that first day, yet it was incumbent on YOU to believe and receive the free gift of salvation. And so in this same way, are we not taking pride in our power and righteousness to KEEP believing in the free gift of salvation.

 

[Stunnedbygrace]

You have taken the title away from EG!
No way he can outdo you on that one!
It's a knockout. EG has lost the title.