A True New Testament Church

[jahsoul]

This is an argument spawned from Satan himself, that God abolished all His Words by way of Messiah, that now we can feel our way to Heaven by simply believing in Jesus. Well, fact is, even the demons "believe" and so I'm telling you, you are deceived. Not saying any more to you, not falling into your trap, cuz that's what it is, a trap from Satan to torment and wear out the saints. Good day sir.

Wow, really?

Acts 15:1-31But some men came down from Judea and were teaching the brothers, "Unless you are circumcised according to the custom of Moses, you cannot be saved."
2 And after Paul and Barnabas had no small dissension and debate with them, Paul and Barnabas and some of the others were appointed to go up to Jerusalem to the apostles and the elders about this question.
3 So, being sent on their way by the church, they passed through both Phoenicia and Samaria, describing in detail the conversion of the Gentiles, and brought great joy to all the brothers.
4 When they came to Jerusalem, they were welcomed by the church and the apostles and the elders, and they declared all that God had done with them.
5 But some believers who belonged to the party of the Pharisees rose up and said, "It is necessary to circumcise them and to order them to keep the law of Moses."
6 The apostles and the elders were gathered together to consider this matter.
7 And after there had been much debate, Peter stood up and said to them, "Brothers, you know that in the early days God made a choice among you, that by my mouth the Gentiles should hear the word of the gospel and believe.
8 And God, who knows the heart, bore witness to them, by giving them the Holy Spirit just as he did to us,
9 and he made no distinction between us and them, having cleansed their hearts by faith.
10 Now, therefore, why are you putting God to the test by placing a yoke on the neck of the disciples that neither our fathers nor we have been able to bear?
11 But we believe that we will be saved through the grace of the Lord Jesus, just as they will."
12 And all the assembly fell silent, and they listened to Barnabas and Paul as they related what signs and wonders God had done through them among the Gentiles.
13 After they finished speaking, James replied, "Brothers, listen to me.
14 Simeon has related how God first visited the Gentiles, to take from them a people for his name.
15 And with this the words of the prophets agree, just as it is written,
16 "'After this I will return, and I will rebuild the tent of David that has fallen; I will rebuild its ruins, and I will restore it,
17 that the remnant of mankind may seek the Lord, and all the Gentiles who are called by my name, says the Lord, who makes these things
18 known from of old.'
19 Therefore my judgment is that we should not trouble those of the Gentiles who turn to God,
20 but should write to them to abstain from the things polluted by idols, and from sexual immorality, and from what has been strangled, and from blood.
21 For from ancient generations Moses has had in every city those who proclaim him, for he is read every Sabbath in the synagogues."
The Council's Letter to Gentile Believers
22 Then it seemed good to the apostles and the elders, with the whole church, to choose men from among them and send them to Antioch with Paul and Barnabas. They sent Judas called Barsabbas, and Silas, leading men among the brothers,
23 with the following letter: "The brothers, both the apostles and the elders, to the brothers who are of the Gentiles in Antioch and Syria and Cilicia, greetings.
24 Since we have heard that some persons have gone out from us and troubled you with words, unsettling your minds, although we gave them no instructions,
25 it has seemed good to us, having come to one accord, to choose men and send them to you with our beloved Barnabas and Paul,
26 men who have risked their lives for the sake of our Lord Jesus Christ.
27 We have therefore sent Judas and Silas, who themselves will tell you the same things by word of mouth.
28 For it has seemed good to the Holy Spirit and to us to lay on you no greater burden than these requirements:
29 that you abstain from what has been sacrificed to idols, and from blood, and from what has been strangled, and from sexual immorality. If you keep yourselves from these, you will do well. Farewell."
30 So when they were sent off, they went down to Antioch, and having gathered the congregation together, they delivered the letter.
31 And when they had read it, they rejoiced because of its encouragement.

If you have issue with whatever I wrote, you can take it up with the writer of Acts, Peter, Paul, Barnabas, and James....

I really think you need to read the Bible more...*shrugs*

 

[dcontroversal]

In order to truly understand the New Testemant, it is incumbent upon the child and student of God to know the Old Testament.

I agree and also teach that if you want to have a good understanding of the N.T. you must also have a good understanding of the O.T. as the two go hand in hand, they supplement each other, both point to each other and together give the complete picture.

 

[JaumeJ]

Pay attention to what you post! Certain Jews.............not all Jews. What do you have against the rest of the Jews? The ones who know the Word, all of it, and do their best to be good? Or is there fault in being good in your teaching? By the way, they use the commandments of God as a guidline to being good, though they have found Messiah and grace.

What is this people have against all Jews and not just certain Jews? It is the same as having it in for all people and not just certain people! All understand what I am saying. If you do not, I cannot help you. As for hostility, I will alway be hostile to sin, it is my duty. You are informed, act accordingly, but do not quote scripture from darkness.

@JaumeJ

I just saw your response. I sense hostility in you first posing because I used the word Judaized. *sigh*

I'm not selective when I read the word of God nor read things with my POV in mind so this will be a brief post to both of your responses.

Acts 15 shows certain Jews wanting to make Gentile believers undergo circumcision and keep the laws of Moses. Peter spoke up saying that the Gentiles hearts are purified through faith and asking "why are you putting God to the test by placing a yoke on the neck of the disciples that neither our fathers nor we have been able to bear?" After hearing Paul and Barnabas speak about the miracles they saw among the Gentiles, James stated that
"28 For it has seemed good to the Holy Spirit and to us to lay on you no greater burden than these requirements: 29 that you abstain from what has been sacrificed to idols, and from blood, and from what has been strangled, and from sexual immorality. If you keep yourselves from these, you will do well. Farewell."

So I ask, what of the Torah was taught to the Gentile and is supposed to be taught to the Gentile? Peter called the law of Moses a burden that nobody up until that time (only Christ) was able to bear. Again, the most important thing about the Torah, the writings, and the prophets will always be Phillip said about it. "Philip found Nathanael and said to him, "We have found him of whom Moses in the Law and also the prophets wrote, Jesus of Nazareth, the son of Joseph."

 

[jahsoul]

Pay attention to what you post! Certain Jews.............not all Jews. What do you have against the rest of the Jews? The ones who know the Word, all of it, and do their best to be good? Or is there fault in being good in your teaching? By the way, they use the commandments of God as a guidline to being good, though they have found Messiah and grace.

What is this people have against all Jews and not just certain Jews? It is the same as having it in for all people and not just certain people! All understand what I am saying. If you do not, I cannot help you. As for hostility, I will alway be hostile to sin, it is my duty. You are informed, act accordingly, but do not quote scripture from darkness.

What in the world are you talking about? I don't have anything against any Jew, and if you read or follow any of my posting without some type of chip, you would see that. I have no respect of person. Everyone needs a savior.

Now, what scripture was quoted from darkness. The words and conclusion reached Acts 15 can be ignored until Christ takes us home but it is very plain in its message, which is what I wrote. Again, you were hostile but what sin was committed in any of my postings. None. I used the word Judaize, and I guess dog hit, and I wasn't even talking about you or directing that at you.

Now, please, listen; before you go on about "Jew hate," i invite you to read any of my post. I love the Jew, like I love the Muslim, like I love the Buddhist, like I love the atheist. But to say that I quote a scripture in darkness because YOU seemingly don't approve of its message is fallacious. If I'm in the dark about Acts 15, enlighten me......

 

[JaumeJ]

Please stop with the rhetoric. Obviously I do not understand how you are approaching whatever point it is you are trying to make. Yes, your quote refers to some Jews, yet the blanket seems to fall on all Jews. I do not like this type of categorizing of any people, ergo you will find my response to be against any inferences to this negative view of our spiritual forefathers. We are of the faith of Abraham. All who claim the Messiah, Jesus, are of the faith of Abraham.

I apologize if I am not understanding your uinderstanding, but it certainly appears how I understand you in th eJudaizing references previously posted. I am hanging any comments since on those remarks.

 

[just-me]

So the question must be asked, what part of the law is being selected to follow?

The question you ask suggests that I should segregate the law into categories for you. Why do you think I'm doing that by mentioning the first time the commandments of love can be found in the Mosaic Law listed Leviticus and Deuteronomy? I wold also be good for you to read Exodus chapters 20 through 23. There are good morals found there, and that also pertains to loving in the Agape way. Love is the fulfilling of the law. Please read post # 149 and # 158 again.

 

[just-me]

@just-me and JaumeJ

First off, hi! lol.

But I think I should have expounded on my question. Are we to take the entire law as-is or are some just selective in what they choose to follow? Why only adhere to part and not all?

One of the reason I asked is because I've never been able to find nor gotten an answer regarding what did the Gentile of the day know about the entire Hebrew law. What did they know about the Sabbath? What did they know was forbidden to eat? What did they know about the circumcision? What did they know about the sacrifices? Were the Gentiles of the day nothing more than Judaized (for reference of this, look towards the end of Esther, even though it's crazy that in this book, it's says that people became religious Jews because they feared the Jews and not because they feared God....interesting) believers of Christ? Then I ask MYSELF the question, what was the purpose of the law in the first place?

It is obvious by my previous post, and the 2 posts mentioned in them, that the Gentiles were privy to the law and the prophets via the Israelites, and not just the Jews. The Israelites are the other tribes that are not Jews. The name Jew is short for Judah. These people didn't like Paul's teaching with the law (because that's all they had at the time) proving Jesus Christ as the true Messiah, and how our Savior fulfilled the scriptures that they understood at the time. No one can say that the New Testament writings were available at that time because what we call the New Testament in our Bible didn't exist then. The Mosaic Law and the prophets were all they had to confirm the truth in Christ Jesus.

Paul wrote the following

Romans 15:4 (KJV)
[SUP]4 [/SUP]For whatsoever things were written aforetime were written for our learning, that we through patience and comfort of the scriptures might have *hope.

 

[just-me]

You are being Judaized when told that the Ten Commandments fulfill the two commandments on which hang all the law and the prophets.


No. . .even Judaizers don't believe that.

In that case, you are being just flat-out misinformed.


You are being Judaized when you are not told along with it that all in Christ are Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.

Yes, your warping of the NT is Judaizing it.[/SIZE]

This is what I explained previously. Thought you would be interested that Moses wrote the Ten Commandments before anything was written on stone.

What Did the Ark of the Covenant Contain (Hebrews 9:4)?

Deutteronomy 32:24-26
So it was, when Moses had completed writing the words of this law in a book [not the Ten Commandments which God had written on two tables of stone, but the civil law which Moses had written in a book—the law of Moses].

There were however, according to original Hebrew, ten Words, or ten things containing the covenant. So in these verses "Ten Commandments" have replaced the original Hebrew.

Exodus 34:28 (KJV)
[SUP]28 [/SUP]And he was there with the LORD forty days and forty nights; he did neither eat bread, nor drink water. And he wrote upon the tables the words of the covenant, the ten commandments.

וַיְהִי-שָׁם עִם-יְהוָה, אַרְבָּעִים יוֹם וְאַרְבָּעִים לַיְלָה--לֶחֶם לֹא אָכַל, וּמַיִם לֹא שָׁתָה; וַיִּכְתֹּב עַל-הַלֻּחֹת, אֵת דִּבְרֵי הַבְּרִית--עֲשֶׂרֶת, הַדְּבָרִים.
​

And there was - there with - LORD forty days and forty nights - eating no bread and drank no water, and shall be written on - tablets, the words of the covenant - the ten things.

Deuteronomy 4:13 (KJV)
[SUP]13 [/SUP]And he declared unto you his covenant, which he commanded you to perform, even ten commandments; and he wrote them upon two tables of stone.

וְאֹתִי צִוָּה יְהוָה, בָּעֵת הַהִוא, לְלַמֵּד אֶתְכֶם, חֻקִּים וּמִשְׁפָּטִים: לַעֲשֹׂתְכֶם אֹתָם--בָּאָרֶץ, אֲשֶׁר אַתֶּם עֹבְרִים שָׁמָּה לְרִשְׁתָּהּ.
​

And the Lord commanded me, at that time, teach you, statutes and judgments: *Lastcm you - the country that you are passing over to possess it.

*Lastcm seems to be a word meaning the "Mouth that makes you wise."

Deuteronomy 10:4 (KJV)
[SUP]4 [/SUP]And he wrote on the tables, according to the first writing, the ten commandments, which the LORD spake unto you in the mount out of the midst of the fire in the day of the assembly: and the LORD gave them unto me.

וַיִּכְתֹּב עַל-הַלֻּחֹת כַּמִּכְתָּב הָרִאשׁוֹן, אֵת עֲשֶׂרֶת הַדְּבָרִים, אֲשֶׁר דִּבֶּר יְהוָה אֲלֵיכֶם בָּהָר מִתּוֹךְ הָאֵשׁ, בְּיוֹם הַקָּהָל; וַיִּתְּנֵם יְהוָה, אֵלָי.
​

And he wrote about - the tablets according to the first, the ten words which the LORD hath spoken to you on the Mount of fire on the crowd, and the LORD delivered them, to me.

I am going to look into the 10 words, or 10 things" in the covenant. The way it appears these ten things, or words include the priests cloths and the directions of the temple. This should create a real stink, but I would prefer investigation instead.

Exodus 24:4 (KJV)
[SUP]4 [/SUP]And Moses wrote all the words of the LORD, and rose up early in the morning, and builded an altar under the hill, and twelve pillars, according to the twelve tribes of Israel.

Seems as though Moses wrote down the words (what we call the Ten Commandments) of the Lord before going up on the mountain for the 40 days.



​

1. Exodus 20:1-17 the Ten Commandments as we know them
2. Exodus 20:23-26 make no idols, and instruction of making the altar of burning
3. Exodus 21:1-11 master servant relations
4. Exodus 21:12-36 personal injuries
5. Exodus 22:1-15 property rights
6. Exodus 22:16-31, and 23:1-9 crimes against humanity
7. Exodus 23:10-13 the land and the Sabbath
8. Exodus 23:14-19 harvests firstfruits, and unleavened bread, food consumption
9. Exodus 23:20-33 conquest of the promised land
10. Exodus 24:1-2 the introduction to the intersession of the priests

Exodus 24:4 (KJV)
[SUP]4 [/SUP]And Moses wrote all the words of the LORD, and rose up early in the morning, and builded an altar under the hill, and twelve pillars, according to the twelve tribes of Israel. (this is the beginning of the 4[SUP]th[/SUP] day of the third month at mount Sinai)

Moses told all this to Israel and they agreed, making these words the instructions of the covenant.
These are the words that Moses wrote, and 2 days later was called to go up on the mountain.

Exodus 24:12-13 (KJV)
[SUP]12 [/SUP]And the LORD said unto Moses, Come up to me into the mount, and be there: and I will give thee tables of stone, and a law, and commandments which I have written; that thou mayest teach them.
[SUP]13 [/SUP]And Moses rose up, and his minister Joshua: and Moses went up into the mount of God.

This is the beginning of the 5[SUP]th[/SUP] day of the third month (a Sabbath day) Another week pasted and then Moses ascended the mountain to receive the tablets of stone that God would write.

Exodus 24:16 (KJV)
[SUP]16 [/SUP]And the glory of the LORD abode upon mount Sinai, and the cloud covered it six days: and the seventh day he called unto Moses out of the midst of the cloud. (this is the 12[SUP]th[/SUP] day of the month which is also a Sabbath day)

Deuteronomy 10:4 (KJV)
[SUP]4 [/SUP]And he wrote on the tables, according to the first writing,

Of course Moses had broken them and had to later write them himself. If the church is to be right, they need to be taught the spiritual meaning of this covenant

 

[JaumeJ]

If anyone worships Yahweh, God, having no other god before him, he will obey everything He is told by God. Now, can you see how this one commandment alone, obeyed that is, is obeying the laws of love? If you cannot, I am surprised. There is no way to interpret this in any other manner without being simply obstinate.

 

[just-me]

I submit that the name calling of "Judaizers" be changed to "Israelizers." When understanding the Old Testament better we can safely say that Judah (Jew) was confined to one location and was not part of Greece, Turkey and other surrounding areas. Israel for sure had the writings of Moses, and the prophets when they were dispersed by the Assyrians, long before Judah was captured by the Babylonians. Stop using the word "Judaizer" for the Jews had a major problem with the truth revealed by the apostles. On the opposite side of the coin, I also have a problem with people suppressing the truth of the Gospel as Paul had. Use the word "Israelizer" for it is much more appropriate for name calling after reading the posts presented, and the scripture to back it up.

 

[JaumeJ]

B, you are spot on. I find myself using misplaced terms many times in order to be understood. Perhaps I should change my ways. God bless you............

 

[just-me]

If anyone worships Yahweh, God, having no other god before him, he will obey everything He is told by God. Now, can you see how this one commandment alone, obeyed that is, is obeying the laws of love? If you cannot, I am surprised. There is no way to interpret this in any other manner without being simply obstinate.

These words of love were said before Israel entered the promised land. It was not only the commandments of that day, but also a promise in prophecy for today. The love commandments (containing all of what God had told Moses up to that point) were for them then, and also for us now, and I read nowhere in the Bible that God's initial exhortations have changed from then to now. These people were under the "LAW OF LOVE" instead of over it. Jesus never said "get over it," and neither did Paul. Jesus broke down the wall of separation that these laws of love revealed. If the law had been changed, this revealing light to identify this wall would be worthless, and the wall would stay there because we couldn't see it. Henceforth, this young generation were Israelizers, and only the descendants of Judah were Judaizers.
Deuteronomy 6:4-6 (KJV)
[SUP]4 [/SUP]Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God is one LORD:
[SUP]5 [/SUP]And thou shalt love the LORD thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy might.
[SUP]6 [/SUP]And these words, which I command thee this day, shall be in thine heart:

By this time the younger generation was growing into adulthood. These young men and women had access to everything God had told Moses previously. We now call God's words the "law", and some say the law has changed, or doesn't apply. I would suppose then that God's words have changed, or no longer apply for today.

 

[jahsoul]

Please stop with the rhetoric. Obviously I do not understand how you are approaching whatever point it is you are trying to make. Yes, your quote refers to some Jews, yet the blanket seems to fall on all Jews. I do not like this type of categorizing of any people, ergo you will find my response to be against any inferences to this negative view of our spiritual forefathers. We are of the faith of Abraham. All who claim the Messiah, Jesus, are of the faith of Abraham.

I apologize if I am not understanding your uinderstanding, but it certainly appears how I understand you in th eJudaizing references previously posted. I am hanging any comments since on those remarks.

I'm glad we got to hash a few things out in PM but I will address one thing; I think my judaize comment was taken out of context or you read it wrong. If you go back and read it, I was asking a series of question, and I asked were the gentiles of the day just judaized believers. I don't understand how that blew up, especially without it even being answered. But again, I thank God that as brothers, things can be settled amicably.

 

[homwardbound]

Originally Posted by p_rehbein

Matthew 22:36) Master, which is the great commandment in the law?
37 .) Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.
38 .) This is the first and great commandment.
39 .) And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
40 .) On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.

Originally Posted by just-me

Bless you heart brother. I have one rhetorical question though, and I will answer it if no one else answers. Where are the first definitions of this love found to explain and exact these two love commandments?



One is in Leviticus, and the other in in Deuteronomy. Sorry, these are the first time thay were mentioned. They are in the law, and if we fail by negating the law, we also fail in receiving the instructions of how to love God and neighbors. Then all that is left by throwing the law away is to make up our own definitions of what love is, and then we become exactly like the Pharisees making up our own rules as we go. When we abide by our own rules of what is right and wrong, we should know that our rules will eventually come to a dead end.

I never could find out how to love perfectly through the Law, and I tried. And it is not that I have given up on the Law for the Law showed me my need for Christ alone, and thus by trust in Son and Father I have been given The true love of God found best in 1 cor. 13:4-13
Having this love I need no other
And having by the death of Christ been reconciled to Father, I now have the new life he came to give me and all those that believe as well

 

[just-me]

I never could find out how to love perfectly through the Law, and I tried. And it is not that I have given up on the Law for the Law showed me my need for Christ alone, and thus by trust in Son and Father I have been given The true love of God found best in 1 cor. 13:4-13
Having this love I need no other
And having by the death of Christ been reconciled to Father, I now have the new life he came to give me and all those that believe as well

Neither have I, yet where would we be without the instructions? Without instructions, children will never know why their parents act discussed toward them. The instructions exemplify their love for their children.

1 Corinthians 11:32 (KJV)
[SUP]32 [/SUP]But when we are judged, we are chastened of the Lord, that we should not be condemned with the world.

Hebrews 12:4-8 (KJV)
[SUP]4 [/SUP]Ye have not yet resisted unto blood, striving against sin.
[SUP]5 [/SUP]And ye have forgotten the exhortation which speaketh unto you as unto children, My son, despise not thou the chastening of the Lord, nor faint when thou art rebuked of him:
[SUP]6 [/SUP]For whom the Lord loveth he chasteneth, and scourgeth every son whom he receiveth.
[SUP]7 [/SUP]If ye endure chastening, God dealeth with you as with sons; for what son is he whom the father chasteneth not?
[SUP]8 [/SUP]But if ye be without chastisement, whereof all are partakers, then are ye bastards, and not sons.

1 John 4:7-13 (KJV)
[SUP]7 [/SUP]Beloved, let us love one another: for love is of God; and every one that loveth is born of God, and knoweth God.
[SUP]8 [/SUP]He that loveth not knoweth not God; for God is love.
[SUP]9 [/SUP]In this was manifested the love of God toward us, because that God sent his only begotten Son into the world, that we might live through him.
[SUP]10 [/SUP]Herein is love, not that we loved God, but that he loved us, and sent his Son to be the propitiation for our sins.
[SUP]11 [/SUP]Beloved, if God so loved us, we ought also to love one another.
[SUP]12 [/SUP]No man hath seen God at any time. If we love one another, God dwelleth in us, and his love is perfected in us.
[SUP]13 [/SUP]Hereby know we that we dwell in him, and he in us, because he hath given us of his Spirit.

John and Paul both knew the Mosaic law very well according to what God had revealed to them in the truth found therein. John also wrote John 3:16

 

[just-me]

Originally Posted by JaumeJ

Please stop with the rhetoric. Obviously I do not understand how you are approaching whatever point it is you are trying to make. Yes, your quote refers to some Jews, yet the blanket seems to fall on all Jews. I do not like this type of categorizing of any people, ergo you will find my response to be against any inferences to this negative view of our spiritual forefathers. We are of the faith of Abraham. All who claim the Messiah, Jesus, are of the faith of Abraham.
I apologize if I am not understanding your uinderstanding, but it certainly appears how I understand you in th eJudaizing references previously posted. I am hanging any comments since on those remarks.

I'm glad we got to hash a few things out in PM but I will address one thing; I think my judaize comment was taken out of context or you read it wrong. If you go back and read it, I was asking a series of question, and I asked were the gentiles of the day just judaized believers. I don't understand how that blew up, especially without it even being answered. But again, I thank God that as brothers, things can be settled amicably.

I think I answered your questions in previous posts also. God Bless you brother. really!!

 

[jahsoul]

It is obvious by my previous post, and the 2 posts mentioned in them, that the Gentiles were privy to the law and the prophets via the Israelites, and not just the Jews. The Israelites are the other tribes that are not Jews. The name Jew is short for Judah. These people didn't like Paul's teaching with the law (because that's all they had at the time) proving Jesus Christ as the true Messiah, and how our Savior fulfilled the scriptures that they understood at the time. No one can say that the New Testament writings were available at that time because what we call the New Testament in our Bible didn't exist then. The Mosaic Law and the prophets were all they had to confirm the truth in Christ Jesus.

Paul wrote the following

Romans 15:4 (KJV)
[SUP]4 [/SUP]For whatsoever things were written aforetime were written for our learning, that we through patience and comfort of the scriptures might have *hope.

Trust me, I totally understand lsrael/Judah split. It is also evident that in the NT, that "Jew" came to mean one of 2 things, someone who lived in the region of Judea or a religious Jew. While Paul said that he was the Jew of Jews, and giving his learned religious credentials, in Romans 11, he clearly shows that he is a ethnic Israelite from the tribe of Benjamin. But if you read Acts, Paul wasn't that liked by the Jews (even those converted to The Way) for 2 reason; the first you stated and the second is he didn't teach adherence to the law of Moses or circumcision to either Gentile nor Jew. (Acts 21:20-21)

I submit that the name calling of "Judaizers" be changed to "Israelizers." When understanding the Old Testament better we can safely say that Judah (Jew) was confined to one location and was not part of Greece, Turkey and other surrounding areas. Israel for sure had the writings of Moses, and the prophets when they were dispersed by the Assyrians, long before Judah was captured by the Babylonians. Stop using the word "Judaizer" for the Jews had a major problem with the truth revealed by the apostles. On the opposite side of the coin, I also have a problem with people suppressing the truth of the Gospel as Paul had. Use the word "Israelizer" for it is much more appropriate for name calling after reading the posts presented, and the scripture to back it up.

The crazy thing about this post in the Northern Kingdom (Kingdom of Israel) worshiped Pagan gods through most of its existence. While they had prophets, most didn't listen do them. While they had the writings of Moses, they did not adhere to it and for this reason they were overtaken.

And as far as Judaize, that's actually in the Bible.
Esther 8:17 - mityahadiym
Galatians 2:14 - Ioudaízein

 

[jahsoul]

Originally Posted by JaumeJ

Please stop with the rhetoric. Obviously I do not understand how you are approaching whatever point it is you are trying to make. Yes, your quote refers to some Jews, yet the blanket seems to fall on all Jews. I do not like this type of categorizing of any people, ergo you will find my response to be against any inferences to this negative view of our spiritual forefathers. We are of the faith of Abraham. All who claim the Messiah, Jesus, are of the faith of Abraham.
I apologize if I am not understanding your uinderstanding, but it certainly appears how I understand you in th eJudaizing references previously posted. I am hanging any comments since on those remarks.
I think I answered your questions in previous posts also. God Bless you brother. really!!

You did. More than anything, I really didn't want anything that I said misconstrued or misrepresented. I think I have enough post on here for people to understand where I stand on a lot of issues, so I really didn't want something taken out of context and ran with. I also went to Ms. RedTent the same way. As brothers and sisters, even though we disagree on some things, we are still brothers and sisters in Christ.

 

[just-me]

And as far as Judaize, that's actually in the Bible.
Esther 8:17 - mityahadiym
Galatians 2:14 - Ioudaízein

I still like "Israelized" because the law was given while they were still all together. I wasn't talking about pagan religion in previous posts. I was addressing the reality that the Gentiles has access to the writings of Moses, and that's what Paul used to prove the Gospel to the Gentiles. For all intents and purposes, the dispersed Israelite patriarchs, along with their temples throughout the Gentile nations, had a real problem with the truth even though Paul didn't have a problem with the writings of Moses because they were a clear cut asset for his ministry. The Bereans, for example, used these writings to see whether Paul and others were telling them the truth, and many came to believing on Christ Jesus.

What is you take on the "Ten Commandments" and how God administered them? Is it just part of Exodus 20, or do you think that there are ten aspects of truth through chapter 23 that later scripture is referring to calling the tablets of stone the "Ten Commandments?"

See post #168

 

[Elin]

If anyone worships Yahweh, God, having no other god before him, he will obey everything He is told by God. Now, can you see how this one commandment alone, obeyed that is, is obeying the laws of love? If you cannot, I am surprised. There is no way to interpret this in any other manner without being simply obstinate.

You can interpret it the way Jesus did.

Why do you need to reverse the subject and object in his statement, "On these two, hang all the law and prophets."

Why are you warping the way Jesus stated it?

The obstinacy is no one's but yours.